okay, so here's how not to do it... don't try this at home.
actually, the fundamental concept has promise but i'll be uprating the materials. instead of one layer of 2x6 i'm now using 3 layers of 2x10 in back, and 2 layers in front. the 2x12 'keel' section was too long, and is being shortened to somewhere in the neighborhood of the bellhousing -- and mounted to the bottom, not the top.

those small pad parts have holes to capture the donute to prevent lateral and longitudinal movement. key dimensions for this fabrication are the 29" MAX outside-to-outside measurement on the wheels, the size of the inside of the UHaul ramp. the bottom of the wood parts must be at least 10,5" above ground level to clear the wheel well intrusion into the truck bed.

in case you were wondering, those are Harbor Freight wheels rated at 675 lbs each.

i'll post updates once i've got the next version constructed and holding the car - hopefully tomorrow. soon as it's dark i have to revert to packing and housework mode. the house is on the market and "priced for quick sale." one rent-a-house we were looking at in PA got rented before we could complete the deal, and another guy isn't responding so i think that one's not happening either. so the panick level is starting to set in a little since we NEED a place to live back there and don't have one yet ...

I don't understand what you are trying to make? A dolly? A rotisserie? A ramp?

Version 0.8 needs some work. I hit the F1 key on my keyboard for help, but this beta version doesn't have any documentation?

Is there a support line I can call to understand what you are trying to build? Is it free, or do I have to pay $10 per call.

Regards,

Karl

a cradle/dolly thing that i can use to move the suspensionless /6 shell into the Very Big Truck for transportation to Pennsylvania. and then to roll it around while it's in storage there - and eventually, back onto another Very Big Truck when i'm finally able to move into a more permanent house or shop for the eventual restoration.

the suspensionless shell has no suspension, but it does still have the engine and transmission mounted, so it's kinda the worst-case scenario. i may yet have to pull the engine and transmission to make the thing lighter, but i am trying to avoid that.

Karl,

I'm guessing a bit (from earlier reading on the move progress) but I believe he's building a cradle for his 914/6 chassis to ride in for the move to PA. iirc, the first truck run was to include it, but the cradle he had built broke in unexpected places. I believe the chassis has no suspension/motor/etc -- so something has to be fabricated for it to ride on.

My next guess is that these are improvements to make the next run have a better shot at success. All of these are guesses -- Rich will, of course, kick my butt if I've got it wrong :-)

kim.

Wouldn't the easiest solution be to put a suspension on the car? Rich, I've often heard you refer to the six you are restoring. What's it's story - as long as you don't mind telling it.

the short version is no, it wouldn't, and i think you'll come to the same conclusion if you think through all the issues. in the front, i need 1 complete 911 suspension. A-arms, torsion bars, struts, shocks, hubs, roadwheels. i don't know what i'll be doing with the car eventually but it almost certainly involve actually using any of those parts. in the back, i need at least one trailing arm (left) complete with bearings and a 914/6 hub. rear shocks and springs. 2 more roadwheels.

i need all that for less than the $100 or so i've got into lumber and hardware.

then, it still doesn't solve the problem of getting the car to PA, because it's not much easier getting a car with full suspension into the truck than the cradle/dolly i'm building, and there's already going to be the 356 on the trailer behind the Very Big Truck.



this is the short version... some things i'll never know 'cause i wasn't in the car when it happened, my then-wife was, but this is the version i've come to accept...

somewhere in the Esses at Riverside (the turns 3-4-5 complex) at maybe 75-85 mph, something happened. maybe she put a wheel off, maybe she hit something, maybe she jerked the wheel - i donno. a front antirollbar droplink Heim joint failed in compression and broke - this was a 19mm adjustable bar set up max stiff for more 'safe' understeer to counterbalance the stock rear antiroll bar. with the front bar out of the picture the car developed sudden, massive oversteer and did (ultimately) a 270-degree spin, got the leftside wheels off course which tripped the car onto its left side (bending the left trailing arm in the process) and it skidded backwards uphill through the sand and gravel until it eventually rolled gently onto its top.

during an early poverty period maybe 20 years ago i sold off the rightside A-Arm complete, the externally adjustable Koni shock inserts, and the big brake struts. the rear strut assemblies got transplanted to the '72 /4 we later used as a daily driver for a while.

Kim was mostly correct about the situation, except that the engine and transmission are still in.

the car has 23,000 original miles and has been stored inside most of its life; it should be back inside in about 3 weeks...

Rich, I'd seriously consider a more conventional option. Please don't get hurt or mess up your car.

My concerns are:

1) What weight is the ramp designed for? I'd be concerned about the strength of the ramp where it is secured to the truck.

2) Stability while loading. The rise to run of those ramps is about 1:3. That's a pretty steep grade, and the fact that the ramp is only about 36" wide... (shudder). Scary.

3) Securing the car inside the truck. Are there any floor mounted anchors in those trucks? I only remember those wooden runners mounted in the fiberglass walls that are for tying rope/strap to. Good for headboards and appliances, not really useful for securing a car.

At any rate, I'm not there to see the details so I can't judge. I'll trust your judgement. Just be careful.

-Ben M.

Have you thought of building a rotisserie type system with bigger wheels?

I know you're in a time and $ crunch. But this might be safer.

Have someone get some iron and a welder and make someting stronger than wood. Put some big ass wheels or casters on the bottom.

I'd stay away from the wood. Even 2x6s or 2x8s mounted vertically.

I agree with Ben, you're going to have problems getting this IN a truck. You're better off getting it on a towing type trailer of some sort.

Regards,

Karl Ellzey

Rich,

I have dumb questions.

- Is the suspension completely gone? Here's what I'm thinking -- for transport purposes, it's uninteresting whether it's 911/914/etc. All that matters is that it
has bearings and it rolls more or less straight for some number of miles.

What would it take to put together *any* suspension for her? Maybe, given a list, something could be cobbled together?

- In a truck, you'd almost want her on the floor, at the front, tied down. Like a really big sofa/couch or something.

I do apologise -- I'm sure you've gone over all this in your head many times, and I'm just dragging it out. But I'd like to work on things that could help.... and I'm sure that's what Ben and Karl have on their minds as well...

kim.

Looking at your pictures... With wheels that small, unless you also have wheels at the end of your dolly/cart/whatever, you're going to scrape the ass of the car on the way up the ramp.

You at least need to get the body of the car up to it's normal ride height.

Your wheels should be located at around the same area the tires would have been.

Take those 2x6s and instead of building a flat frame, build a frame (with the 2" side of the board facing down and the 6" side vertically). Have the corners line up with the jacking points of the car.

Reinforce the corners and mount your heavy casters underneath there. You may need some blocks on underneath the frame where the casters are mounted to get the car to the right height.

Think of the roof trusses on a house and how the boards are positioned for strength.

Karl

How about a forklift to get the car in and out of the big truck
four furniture dollies one at each coner of the floor pan
to move it around just a thought
good luck

Have you though about using steel? You could actually bolt the whole think together casters and all if you don't have access to a welder. Then you could bolt the car the the square tubing subframe. It may take a couple of hours to drill and bolt the think together but it would be way safer than wood.

1) it's nominally 1000 lbs, but the car won't be on it very long. this is the big issue that's making me think about removing the driveline. i suspect there is a healthy safety margin in that numbar, or they'd be having them break every day when people move pianos...

2) it's actually pretty shallow. the loading deck height is under 16" and the ramp is about 12' long.

3) there are side rails that are fastened to the box structure. not the strongest, but i'll use them with ratchet tiedowns. i'll also be surrounding the car with boxes loaded with books - it won't be able to move very far in any direction and will therefore be unable to develop any significant momentum.

i appreciate the concerns, thanks.

"They all said I was crazy"

Rich, I did something similar when we moved from FL to CA a few years ago. Something you might want to consider (if it's not too late) is getting a truck that is dock height with no wheel wells (check out the 15 and 24 ft Budget trucks). This is what I used and it made loading and un-loading the car easier. I just used my AAA membership and requested a flatbed towtruck. The flatbeds are also dock height and can back right up to the budget truck. Then you're just moving your load horizontally instead of on an incline.

Harbor Freight also had a 12V 6000 lb winch on sale a few weeks ago. I'd recommend some kind of winch to help you concentrate on steadying the load instead of having to push it too.

Hope it's not too late to make some adjustments to your plan if needed. Good luck.

[EDIT] Oops, looks like you already have the truck. I say drop the engine / tranny. Would you like us to start a poll so you can see what the rest of the members think?

1) yes. gone.

2) and then what ? having suspension doesn't actually solve any problems... as it's not and can't be registered, it will require a trailer. the 356 has that duty (and although i could load the 356 into the truck, i don't see that that's a significantly different problem...). the Subaru is tow-equipped but has a very low GVW and towing capacity and anyway, J's dead-set against trying to tow anything substantial with it; i tend to agree...

3) it will definitely be loaded right up at the front of the truck.

i don't mind the input - it's possible that an alternative will present itself...

the body of the car will be 10,5" above ground level - i think you'll find this is significantly -above- typical 914 ride height. that height is needed to get the frame above the wheel wells. the wheels by themselves are 9,5" to the top of the mounting flange.

it would indeed be nice if the wheels were located where the original wheels were, however the ramp is but 29" wide and the space between the wheel wells is 44"

the forklift won't work to get the car far enough inside, and i'm still left with having something that won't roll for the next 2 yrs the thing hasta be in storage. furniture dollies aren't high enough to clear the wheel wells.

Budget is $600 more for a smaller truck. the wheel wells don't intrude because they have a 48" deck rather than the 16" deck. their trailer is the cr&ppy one with the too-short single-piece "ramp" that acts like a huge spoiler behind the truck...

i've explored the flatbed suggestion and if all i had to move was the cars, it might make sense. but in the long run i don't think it gets me where i need to be...

i'm covered on the winch front, that won't be an issue. i'm with you there.

i can make adjustments if needed, but they better be really needed :-)...

i have a backup reservation on the 26' UHaul and a trailer (for the 356). so far it is by far the best option going, and i already know for a fact there is one less cr&ppy truck in their fleet for them to try to give me. interesting fact: it was $700 (!) cheaper to obtain the equipment in Carson City (closer...) than Reno. i don't know who they're paying $700 to make that 40 minute drive, but i wouldn't mind a job like that ...

you can start any poll you like :-) ...

if i had a better working environment i'd drop the driveline in a heartbeat, but working in sand/silt is so tiresome... still, it might yet get done, especially if i can stabilise the shell sufficiently for me to work under it safely ...

Dude, we should be able to scrape together a suspension (to include A-arm) for you, even if it's just worn parts only good for moving the car around.

None of us wants to see you or Joy hurt in an accident with the car.

-Rusty

P.S. My safety motto at work: "Learn from other's mistakes, you don't have enough time to make them all yourself."