So, no this is not 914 related, but some of you may know that I was attempting to have my car ready to run the Chumpcar 14 hours of Sebring in Sept. As is often the case with these things, the OTHER drivers who were supposed to pony up have not to date, and I just don't have the funds to finish the car appropriately on my own. We would be a joke, if not a hazard and I would rather get the car sorted correctly and have some fun on the street then rush into something. Maybe next year.

However, I saved enough money and set some aside to cover my own azz in just such an occasion. I started poking around on the forum and met a great team from Sebring - a father, son and brother in law looking for another driver. Though its not a 914, it is something I'm VERY familiar with. Click to view attachment

'95 Mustang 5.0. Needless to say I'm very excited to be living one of my childhood dreams - driving a lap at Sebring. I'll let you all know how we do and post some more pics soon.

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That is great man!

I really want to do the Sebring Chump Car or LeMons sometime.

I would probably just buy a legal car just to save all the time preparing one.

I have done a few DEs at Sebring and it is such a fun track.

It has to be chaos with 60-80 chump cars battling.

John

Couldn't we just go to Avis and rent a car for the weekend. Of couse we'd buy the insurance.

I did that once ( not ChumpCar though) with a Toyota MR2

Lol, that reminds me of a great Jeff Foxworthy quote. "Yes ma'am I would like that $10 insurance. Cause you've got a Ford Fiesta thats about to see more air time than a skateboard at the X-games."

So what would you guys think about driving Sebring or another Florida Chumpcar race sometime next year? I think driving with T.C., Paul and John would be a helluva good time. Come on... you know you want to!

I would love to do it.

Having TC and Paul as ringers would be a great unfair advantage.

John

TC will be the ringer.

I'll help fix the damage.

Thats funny. I started moving on to the body work while I wait to get the ignition sorted. My girlfriend said "Why? You're just going to get wrecked anyway. It is a race, right?" Good point.

LUCKY Painted Man Indeed! I'm green with envy. From what I've seen chasing 'Stangs on-track, they handle very well and with the stability that will make the 14 hours a pleasant drive.

I'm very interested to hear if the track is as nasty-bumpy as has been reported.
Please send LOTS of pics!

Terry

Found the Picture in the Paddock
The 1st Track Day on the 12 Hours Course for Clubs EVER.

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Give me the date of this and I'll come down for it.

Before you go out & Buy one, do you want to borrow my HANS? I know they are required by Chump

Very cool T.C.! I remember the old pits very well from my childhood. Paul, the 14 hr in on September 22nd. If you guys are at all interested for next year, I'll keep you in the loop. There will be other events prior to that as well, but I've got a fair amount of work to do before my car would be ready.

T.C. - the team I'm with for Sebring this year has two HANS devices already. Actually, they're another brand, but I can't remember the name. That is a tremendously gracious offer though. I've never worn one, but I will be this weekend! We're doing a DE down at PBIR to do some final shakedowns and so I can get familiar with the car. The head guy said he wants me to do the Group 4 sessions, but I'm no so sure thats a good idea, or that they would even allow a novice in those sessions. What do you think?

Update:
The team took the car to PBIR this past weekend for a DE with Hooked on Driving. The goal was to shake the car down one last time and get everyone comfortable in the car. Little did I know, but they nominated me for the first session, which was Group "A" and included instructors. I didn't have the cohones to fess up that I had never done a track day, so I sucked it up and went out. Perhaps not my best decision, but after the session, one of the instructors stopped by to tell me how shocked he was that the car was actually pretty quick. I explained that we were there to sort it out and that it was actually my first time. He laughed and told me that I did fine and he really couldn't tell, other than my line being "pretty weird" at Turn 6 and 7. By the next A session I was getting much more comfortable, turning consistent 1:37s and one 35.

All in all, not a bad day. The team captain asked me to push the car so he could determine what else needed to be done, which I did. When everyone else was driving no one saw water temps over 210, but I had it darn near 235, which confirmed that we needed to open up the thermostat opening some. Also, saw brake temps over 800 right after my session. Is this okay, or was I being too hard on them?

Side note: I also got my first ride in a 911, which happened to be a pretty stout IROC that one of the instructors owned. How freakin cool is that? Car was a hoot to ride in - I want one!

How is the corner balance on the puppy?

Corner balance? What corner balance? Lets just say its no 914. And it doesn't handle as well as my Mustang with Eibachs, KYB adjustables, Steeda balljoints, poly bushings, s-bars and bumpsteer kit. Its about 1.5 inches higher than I would like to see it, but Mustangs already have horrible geometry and any lowering past stock requires a compounding set of components to correct it. MacPherson struts are like that I guess. The biggest problem with the car was the body roll, but I was able to pick up on it pretty quick and just let it settle in the twisties. Like most heavy cars, its all about slow in, fast out. And by fast out, I mean I was hitting 130-135 on the backstretch. Blew by the same 911 that I rode in with a built 2.7, though it was obvious how much better he handled under braking and in the corners. The real plus to this car is the gearing - when the tranny was rebuilt he swapped out the OD 5th for a much higher and usable gear. With the stock 3.73 gears and 5th I was nearing 5,700 on the backstretch, almost on the rev limiter and just getting off of the cam. I was tempted to use 2nd but got far too much wheelspin and really slowed the engine down too much. But 3rd-5th was a blast.

Again, I'm a little nervous about the brakes, especially at Sebring. I was at 800 degrees once I came back to the pits, though the fluid did not boil. I didn't feel like I was even using all that I had. That combined with the longer backstretch and the gearing (pretty sure we'll top out), I think we're right on ragged edge of what the car is capable of.

Wow, sounds like you're going to be having a bunch of fun. Life in the fast lane!

What about big sway bars to control the roll or isn't that allowed?

I've mentioned it to the team captain but since the race is only a month and half out, I'm not sure he'll go for it. Plus, we're well over the $500 value the car is SUPPOSED to be at anyway. The idea is to take cars worth $500 (based on internet ads) and strip them down and go racing. Every dollar over $500 in worth, like aftermarket parts is penalized via laps. Since I just wanted to go fast, i.e. Ricky Bobby, I wouldn't matter to me either way. I think I'll just be happy to get a shot at my stint, hoping it doesn't grenade or get wrecked first.

Sebring is not as Hard on Brakes as a lot of people think, although some drivers overuse & cook them.

Turn 1 - Just a brush of Brake, downshift, done - Funny (but True) Story, 1 year during the 12 Hours, it was Raining and they Black-Flagged Hans Stuck. When the Stewards told him he had been Black-Flagged for not Having Brake Lights, they checked & they were working. The Stewards said that there were No Brake Lights in Turn 1, he told them "Fuch You, I do Not use Brakes in Turn 1" and roared out of the Pits
Turn 3 - Braking is needed
Turn 5 - Brush
Turn 7 - Probably the Hardest Brake Zone
Turn 10 - 2nd Hardest Brake Zone
Turn 13 - Brake, Downshift - the line is most important
Turn 15 - Not as hard on Brakes as some people use them - remember 15/16 are comprimize corners, no good is going to come out of trying to do crazy pass's
Turn 17 - This is where people screw up. There are a thousand different lines through 17 & the one I use, requires very little braking even though you are coming down from the fastest section of the Track.

During your Chump weekend, I can come down & give you some Coaching.

Let me know what Kind of HANS you are using

This is great stuff TC. Kind of what I thought. Moroso, being a simple track with a long straight and somewhat stop-and-go, I figured would push our brakes harder than Sebring, which again is good to get the testing out of the way. Not knowing what pads were using though, I assume that 800 is still a little hot, even for a big heavy Mustang. I do have an answer for the HANS - we're using a NexGen or NecksGen, however its spelled. The helmets are already drilled for the hardware. If you do want to come down, I'll buy the beer! Its Sept. 22nd.

I like this thread! I've dreamed about driving Sebring many times (almost as many as Nurburgring), along with choice roads in Sicily and back-mountain roads here in the Rockies - I guess I'm a glutton for punishment! Anyone talking about Sebring in this kind of detail is fun reading for me!

It's cool to hear your perspective of how that Mustang handles too. I've never really been a fan of them for most of the reasons you list (weight, body roll, too high off the ground), but then again, most things worth doing are never easy, I've always thought.

I spent many hours sitting around turns 7 and 10, and I've watched several other videos of in-car narration on the challenges of turn 17 (from the audience perspective it's too hard to appreciate the challenges of that corner). Great perspectives there, thanks for sharing them TC. The more I listen to racers the more I learn. Thanks for that story about Hans Stuck, too

I wish I could be there to watch you guys ... but meeting everyone in the FL racing contingent will have to wait until I get out to Series9 for the Tropical Ramble and get familiar with my own car all over again.

In the meantime, take lots of pics/video of the Sept 22 event, please. And have fun! Looks like it will be a blast!

George,

Sounds like you did a great job for your first track day.

You got some coconuts going out with the top run group first time out.

I boiled the brake fluid (ATE super blue) in my 996 at PBIR first time I was there
but never had the same problem at Sebring. PBIR has three really hard brake
zones. I had to have the track support guys bleed my brakes before I could
go back out.

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I am sure TC can manage turn 1 with a brush but I would brake moderately there
until you figure out the apex for it. There is not much room to run wide there
without hitting the wall. With a heavy car with no downforce I would take it
easy there at first. The apex is a cone stuck in the top of the fence that is hard
to see at first.

Like I said, we will get TC as our ringer when we are driving our 917/30 at next
years chump car.

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John

Well, its less than a week away now. Thought I would ask, what do you regular track guys do in the week leading up to a race? I know I should hydrate *with water* well the day before and I'll drink plenty that morning with a ton of Gatorade on hand. Any other suggestions? I laid all of my gear out to make sure I have everything. Here is my list so far.

Suit
Underwear
Helmet
Gloves
Shoes
Balaclava
Earbuds for radio
Tape for ears
Knee pads for working on the car
Work clothes
Tent and camping gear

Can't wait! Green flag is at 9:00 a.m. on Saturday the 22nd. Live timing is at Chumpcar.com and I may have logging data available if I can figure out the app for my phone. On the timing/scoring, we're "Back Woods Racing."

You forgot the most important thing - BEER for after the Race

Tools including BF hammer.

Thanks guys! Beer loaded along with all the other stuff and a BF hammer! Leaving work at 2 tomorrow to get to the track in time for new drivers meeting, tech and final check of the car. I'm hoping to have plenty of pictures and some GoPro stuff for you to make fun of me for

So what happened George?
I checked live timing about 5 hours in and you guys were down in 52nd place, stuck on 46 laps with the leader past 100 already.
It looked like your car's best lap was decent.
Did you get the car fixed and back on track to finish the race?

The front of the field looked fairly competetive.

Full Gallery of Photos here

http://www.awolphoto.com/event-photos/09-2...umpcar-sebring/

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Hi guys,
Its way past my bedtime and I promised myself I wouldn't reply to this until I had some decent video to go along with it, for you to enjoy and of course to critique. Thats posted below.

I'll have a more thorough writeup for you all soon, but long story short, the car had a lot of electrical issues early in the race, but all of which were easy fixes once we figured them out. Unfortunately it meant that a really competitive car only ran about half the laps it should have. I had a blast though and ran a best of 2:43, which I'm sure I could have improved by 6-7 seconds if I had more seat time. That would have put us right in line with the fastest lap, a 2:36. Like I said, I'll have plenty of more video soon.

Thank you to each and every one of you guys who stood by and kept encouraging me through all of this. I got to live a dream that I have had for a very, very long time!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRhEdn1325A

Too bad about the gremlins but it sounds like you had a great time anyway.

I really want to do that.

John

Thats all just too cool. You are a lucky man.

Couple of observations

1. you were driving very smooth which is very good

2. you were taking some early apexes, which is typical of someone new to racing. next time try going in later especially Turns 1, 3, 10. Your line in 17 isn't what I use but if you ask a 100 drivers how to take that turn you will get a 100 different answers

Glad you had fun & were "Living the Dream"

+1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR38x4OPwg8


This is the full video from my day stint. I only got to drive twice, but you can see a lot more in this one than the night one. Anyhow, the more thorough run-down goes as follows:

We tested the car previously at PBIR to work out all of the gremlins, but 3 laps into the race, around 9:15 they returned. Lenard, the father of this family I was racing with, was in the car and it started backfiring heavily. He came back into the pits and we checked everything. Jason, the son and team captain said he changed everything after the test, from plugs to wires, coil, etc. I suggested it could be the distributor, or the Ignition module on it (Ford mounted it on the distributor for a long time till they realized how much heak soak occurred and was frying them). Instead, Jason sent the car back out, why, I do not know. Of course, it died in turn 3 and now it won't run at all. Takes them 30 minutes to tow back. I again suggest swapping out the dizzy, which he finally does, if nothing else to start eliminating things. Jason gets in the car, and it starts right up. He is able to run about 10 laps and it dies again. 30-45 minute tow and the car makes it back. The only thing left I can think to fix is the computer inside the cabin. Everyone thinks I'm crazy and says "Ain't no way its the computer man." I explain that I've owned Fords and Mustangs most of my life and just to freaking check it. Finally, I go in and do it myself even though its not my car. The computer is barely plugged in and the pins in the access port on the top are rubbing against metal, shorting out. I duct tape it and it starts right up again. Thats when I finally get put in the car, which is where the video starts. I think by this point we were already 60 or so laps down, so my goal is clear: have fun.

My first lap I was just about in tears, since it has always been a goal to get to turn laps there. My grandad was one of the founders of the local SCCA chapter and he raced at Sebring many a time, so this really hit home. My dad and my fiance also came down to watch, which was a big plus.

After the initial jitters, I start to really explore what the car can do. I'm trying to remember all of the words of wisdom that T.C., Paul, John, Chris and others have told me, but for the most part, I just explored. I would hit T1 right sometimes, and mess up 17. Or I'd get 17 and screw up 10. But like I said, one lap I turned a :43, which I was pleased with. I know that I never felt like I got any lap "perfect" and I really wasn't ever truly pushing. That tells me there is a lot of speed left in that car. The other problem is that I was running water temps around 235. No one else even came close to that, and I explained to Jason it was because I was heel-toeing, something they don't do. I had to back off at times and short-shift to keep the car cool. That reminds me - Jason runs a "gutted" thermostat in the car. That is, it has no center or spring portion, but the outer ring is still there to allow him to control the amount of water running through the engine. He claims if you leave it out completely, too much water will rush past the heads and not do a good enough job soaking up heat. I suggested he open it up more, since I was definitely running the car harder and hotter.

T.C. - I saw what you're saying about turning in early now. There was an instructor (Russ) at PBIR who noticed the same thing. The trick with the Mustang is it already has the tail-wagging-the-dog feeling, so when I turn in late, I always feel like I'm sliding the ass end around. That happened to me in the video above a few times in T1, which is fun, but not all that productive. Do I just need to brake longer first, then turn in later?

At the end of my stint, the car cuts out and won't re-fire. Its really sudden, but since we don't know how long it can go on fuel, I'm starting to think that we're out. Turns out to be a bad fuel pump, which on Mustangs, means you have to drop the whole thing. Of course we already filled the tank, so it has to be siphoned off first. Get the car running again and it starts POURING rain. Like harder than I've ever seen at Sebring. The Miatas are having a blast, but we're fuched. The windshield fogs over and Lenard brings the car back in, unable to drive. Within a lap however, Chumpcar red flags the race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlARnLClJug


I think it was about an hour before they got it dried out and we resumed. Jason took the car through the sunset and I got in right as it got DARK. Not to mention, it started drizzling again. So my first night laps at Sebring were in the rain, in a Mustang with headlights that weren't aimed at all.

I watched the 1st 12 minutes, then advance to the 30 minute mark, then the 55 min.

The thing about turning in later is better throttle control. Imagine an Egg between your foot & the pedal - if you stomp on the pedal you break the egg ( the tail wags). When you turn in early, you run out of room at the Exit point and have to correct for that - that also leads to TailWag. It will also lead you to going too wide over the rumble strips ( can't put the power down properly) or off the track. You were doing this consistently in Turns 13 & 16. The other thing I noticed in addition to turning in early was that you were crabbing in - which means you were turning in from the middle of the track vs the proper turn-in point. This will exaggerate the early turn in or duplicate it if you turn in correctly.

In Turn 1, you can carry more speed, turn in a tad later, then get closer to the inside wall ( the Apex Cone is high on the Fence) and let the car track out. Very rarely did I see you track out, which means speed is available.

Turn 3, you crabbed in a lot

Turn 5 was very good

Turn 7 was good, sometimes crabbing

Turn 10 was good & continued thru 11/12 (sweeper)

Turn 13, try do your braking in a straight line from 12 to 13 in a diagonal line from right to left vs going out to left then braking. This will set you up for a later turn in & better run towards 14

Turn 14 & 15 were good.

Turn 16 is an important ( & dangerous) corner. 1st make sure you have momentum ( not necessarily speed) from 15 in. If you rush up on a slower car, you then have to slow & don't have the proper exit speed. If you know you are going to come up on a slower car, hang back, turn in properly, good throttle application & your gone.

Turn 17 ( I've said before that ask 100 drivers what their line is & you will get 99 different answers), but remember it is a double apex. The 1st part you were doing well coming close to the wall on the right, but I always suggest turning in a little later on the 2nd part because if you get close to the inside wall before & under the bridge it is very bumpy. And because this leads onto the 2nd longest straight, you want to have good exit speed .

And this is what Serious Rain at Sebring is like

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Congrats again

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