Here's my question now: Of the total "oil product", what percentage should be Zinc alkyl dithiophosphate? The Brad Penn oils have a max of 0.1 to 1.1 % according to the MSDS. Castrol GTX has 5-10% according to the MSDS.

I bought a supplement, but haven't put it in yet because I need to drain some oil out first and don't have the facility at home. Also, the supplement is .5% by content.

This all has made me very curious and a teeny bit confused

I agree with the above confused guy. I guess I just would like to know what our options are as far as oil goes,that is, brands with acceptable zinc content.
Mike

Hey Mike, the thing that REALLY confused me was I was told that Castrol GTX was "bad" for lack of zinc, but then I Found the data below. .unless I don't understand what I was reading. . that was what I needed clarification on. I"m glad to use the supplement if the GTX isn't what the MSDS says.

And I thought that Valvoline VR1 was an option with good zinc content, then someone suggested that it no longer has the zinc content. I'm lookin for a 10/40 that is suitable in stead of the 20/50 I've been using. I'm hoping for slightly lower oil temps.
Mike

I can't get the same type of Zinc content levels for the VR1. . it wasn't in percentages.

They did that to confuse me even more....lol.

I am no expert in oil and I don't know the percentages of zinc that oil for our teeners should have but I'll run my mouth anyway.
You need to be sure the technical info you are using is current/up to date because the oil manufactures change their recipes very often. Every couple years the API (American Petroleum Institute) publish new motor oil standards. I don't know if the automotive industry drives the new standard or the government drives it but they keep changing the standards. Around 2007 or so the amount of zinc allowed in the oil was reduced to prevent catalytic convert failures from the zinc coating the sub-straight.
So of course all the major oil manufactures changed there oil recipes to conform to the new standards because all the new cars were going to call for oil meeting the new standard, forget about all of us with older cars that needed the zinc additives.
A few oil manufactures have continued to produce oil with the zinc additive that meets the older standards but most of them seem to be the smaller producers and they cater to a niche market.
The few I know of are Brad Penn, Royal Purple, Swepco 306 and Jake Raby's Snake Oil.
There are some big brand oils advertised for older cars but I have no idea what they have in them.
There are also additives you can buy and add but there are some that don't think an addative that was not put in during manufacture will not work. I have no experience with these addatives since I have a local source for Swepco oil.

As always every thing is subject to change without notification.

Jim

I looked at all of the Custom Oils blended by Brad Penn as well, which would include Raby's snake oil. None had more than 1.5% ZINC. I'm TOTALLY confused. Here is the link to the MSDS for Castrol GTX 10w30: http://datasheets.bp.com/ussds/amersdsf.ns...TX%2010W-30.pdf

oils are still changing
the casteroil and maybe the vr1 could still be changing
look at the starburst api symbol

for example if they meet highway certification of SM then they are no good.....

all of the epa certified highway oils are the same boat
you don't need to know the percentages... just know that all of the epa certified highway oils are inadequate.

brant

i agree. i would be real learry about putting any type of additive in my oil. i have been using amsoil z-rod oil. it is engineered for flat tappet cams. which is what our cars use. it is zinc fortified. they have a 5/30 wt and a ?/50 wt. i have been using it for a few years now, with great results. amsoil told me that one qt of the 30wt added to one qt of the 50wt will give you a 40wt. heres a little more info. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Amsoil-Z-ROD-...-p/zrtqt-ea.htm

i dont think any thing from our flaps would be good for our engines. except a diesel engine oil or motor cycle oil (in a pinch). from my research each oil is engineered for a specific purpose. i would rather spend a little more for my oil, and have the peace of mind that i am not harming my engine. these engines are just too damned expensive to rebuild. so im not taking any chances. i have some good reading material on viscosities, engine oil additive packages and so on if you guys are interested in em. real eye openers....

The diesel oils have all been changed as far as I can tell
I know for a fact the rotella and mobil have had all of the zinc taken out.
I can't remember the new diesel certification code (maybe its SJ or CJ ?) anyways all of the diesel oil I have checked has now been changed to no zinc.


Really you have to use the certification
any oil with modern highway certification is bad
we should start a list of the API codes to make this thread useful.

the oils that are good do not have those API codes
I'm using royal purple HPS (their race oil is safe also, but more $ than HPS)

Brad penn should not have an SM certification and is still good last time I checked...

you have to keep tabs on the API certification. that is the only way to know. the cheaper royal purple used to have zinc but its been certified now and no longer does. I got caught out on that one and failed to see the SM certification when I bought 2 cases that I now can not use.(about $110/case). I hadn't bought for a couple of months over the winter and they went and API certified it in the mean time.

The point is... even oils that everyone used to use have been changed.
Look at the certification.

yup, i agree. you gotta keep tabs on it. because like stated above, the manufactures are continually changing the formulas. so the best thing, i think, i knowing what to look for. our choices are getting smaller, so we are almost forced to go with specialty blends.

Royal Purple has a multi vis "break in oil" that says it is for Flat Tappet engines. . but doesn't specify the "multi vis"

Wal Mart even had oil for cars before 1988. . but it was some creepy brand

Any thoughts?

when i break in an engine, i just use cheap diesel engine oil. because i dump it after the cam break in anyways. it would just be a waste to use expensive stuff.

Here's a 10w30 that says for flat tappet:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/V...2&ppt=C1941

Available from our FLAPS. . in this case Oreilly.

I'm broken in. . used 30w high zinc. . I'm looking for the forever oil.

see if you can find the white papers on that oil and post em up. i dont think it is a synthetic....

It is NOT a synthetic. . which is a plus for me.

I use synthetic in the long interval vehicle but it doesn't seem needed in the 914, plus I have read that there is a higher chance of leaks with the synthetic in the 914 (dunno if that is the case though)

heres a pretty good article mrholland. http://www.aircooled.net/synthetic-vw-oil/

drive down to checker and check the API starburst on the back... the circle around the certification

then you will know
as far as advertising goes its all words until you read the certification...

0.1% = 1000 ppm

0.11% = 1100 ppm

0.15% = 1500 ppm

Kendall GT 1 with Liquid Titanium has a ZDDP content of 0.119% = 1200 ppm

Turns out the higher ZDDP is specifically in the 20-50, where it is .119 % by weight, as compared to .085 in the 10-40.

Edit: 1200 ppm is supposed to be the minimum for flat tappet engines ......

Specification PDF

But Brant,

The MSDS isn't an advertisement, it is the legal EPA documentation.

This is a good topic to rehash every so often

Yup,

Now I know what FLAPS oil to buy for my old flat tappet 1969-1970 garden tractor/mower.

Kendall GT1 20w50

This is a link to some information I have found to be very useful when trying to determine the proper oil to use in our dated engines. There is a wealth of info presented there and would be some good read.

http://joegibbsdriven.com/trainingcenter/t...woiloldcar.html

you linked to oreiley...

"Valvoline - Motor Oil
Part Number: RACE10-30
Line: VAL
manufacturer's defect warranty
•UPC: 74130002050
•SAE 10W-30
•VR1 Racing Formula
•1 Quart
Detailed Description
More NASCAR Sprint Cup and top NHRA crew chiefs use Valvoline. Valvoline Racing Oil's exclusive chemistry is designed to reduce friction and enhance power. It is among the most popular engine lubricants in all types of racing including paved and dirt ovals, and drag racing. Formulated for race engines, but compatible with passenger vehicles too.

•High Zinc/Phosphorus provides Extreme Wear Protection, including Flat Tappet Applications
•Additional Friction Modifiers to help Deliver Maximum Horsepower
•Enhanced Anti-Foam System Protects Engine during Extreme Stress
•Compatible with Gasoline or Alcohol Fuels


Manufacturer Information
Valvoline has been developing high performance products and services for more than 140 years - longer than any other motor oil company. The Valvoline commitment to quality and innovation is shown in the fact that year after year, more ASE Certified Master Technicians use Valvoline Motor Oil in their own cars and trucks versus any other brand.
Valvoline offers a full line of conventional motor oils, gear oils, greases, automatic transmission fluids, and other automotive lubricants specially formulated for the full life of your engine.
Valvoline also offers a complete line of performance chemicals that include fuel additives, parts cleaners and starting fluid, and functional fluids. "


this is definitely one big advertisement...
and no where does it say if its SL or SM certified in this advertisement
so it means nothing to me.

you need the SAE/API ratings
brant

http://valvoline.com/products/consumer-pro...ing-motor-oil/8
Link on this page to the current product information sheet. The sheet lists ZDDP levels as 0.11 to 0.14, depending upon viscosity range. Looks like the current formulation has enough ZDDP for use.

Hmmm, how about this one? From the MSDS...
Print Date: 7/29/2012
MSDS Number: R0239086
VR1™ VR1 SAE 20W-50 SYNTHETIC RACING OIL
VV905
Version: 1.8
Zinc Dialkyl dithiophosphate 0.55 %
ZINC DIALKYL DITHIOPHOSPHATE 0.55 %

Yes, that link was oreilly, but I had previously read about Castrol GTX and hand typed what I read from the MSDS

http://datasheets.bp.com/ussds/amersdsf.ns...TX%2010W-30.pdf

I believe Jake is dealing with Joe Gibbs Oil

Royal Purple was recently Sold so watch for developements

I would not just dump in some Additive