In removing the rear bumper from my car I notices that the PO had used mud on the rear right tail under the light housing (didn't bother to even sand it smooth so it was even with the surrounding area before painting). I've read other places that the factory even used mud to even out the bodywork prior to factory paint.

My question is, where on the car is this a bad idea (of course I know not to do it on the longs/hell hole areas)?

You use body filler when the time it will take to get the result you want is greater than the time you are willing to spend working.

Usually that means that you work the metal itself to the point where it's really straight and you use the filler to take up the last 10% - 15%, since that last bit will take you as long as it took to do the first 85% - 90%.

Is that what you're asking?

The thicker the filler the more likely it is to pop off.

A lot of body shops will cover whole cars with a layer of filler and then "carve" the final shape out like a sculptor. Brandon (blpenserini here, see my sig) does a great job will keep filler amounts low. If you look at any of his project pictures those areas that have filler are usually about 1/8" or thinner. So almost nothing.

In regards to the filler on the right rear below the tail light. I have the same on my car right now. For me, I'll work on getting the panel to look right without using bondo.

Pound it out as much as you can, then use lead. Bondo sucks.

You can't really pound it out. it's also filled with expanding foam underneath. The only way i can think of for that area is to cut it out, straighten it and then weld it back on. After cleaning all that foam crap out first.

If you can't pound it, pull it. Just don't get any on your hootus.

Or pulling and pounding on your hootus would not be good either.

Take out the expanding foam. At this point in your cars life it's more harm than good anyway.

But there's not a whole lot you can do in that area anyway. Access is very limited. Don't drill holes to pull it out or you'll cause more problems than it currently has. Only pull if you have a stud welder.

I bought a stud welder a few years back, the thing works awesome but it does take time to learn to do it right. Once you figure it out though, the sky is the limit on what you can do with it. Patience, that is the key.

One Word ALL METAL (ok thats two words)

A product made by US Chemical called All Metal. It is basically ground alluminum mixed with chemicals, liquid hardner. It is totally impervious to water, sands nice and cures fast. I don't use anything else. Save the lead for your pencil buy some of this stuff.

Lead is way heavier than bondo which is why everyone went with it plus its much easier to work with. There are some great products out there. Take the time and find them. Plastic is not my first choice for filler.

BONDO SUCK BALLS!!!!!!!!!

Replace it with metal. I found so much bondo in my car when I started stripping it . I would like to kill the mud master.

Who ever did the work on the car filled the inner fender with bondo and then covered it with undercoat. WTF was that lazy bastard thinking.

Bondo has gotten a bad rap over the years... since back in the days that high-school kids would just buy a bucket, slap it on the side of a car without even shaping metal, and then the inch thick piece would fall off. Duh. Like anything else, when used by a professional, it can give amazing results.

Bondo (or plastic body filler) does have a place in modern body work, even on classic cars. The factory used it. The companies that make plastic (and nylon) body fillers have greatly improved the technology that goes into the mix. This isn't the bondo you used to hide the dent on your father's Buick anymore.

Like Mark said... shaping and stretching the metal to the best possible shape and then feathering in a bit of plastic filler to fix a surface... that's the easiest and usually best way to repair the flaw.

How many people do you know that really know how to use lead? Okay, so we all know "this one old guy..." It's expensive, it's poisonous to the user, and it's extremely slow. It's a difficult art form to master properly. If lead really was that superior, then major shops would use it. Insurance companies would insist on it for "proper" repairs. Auto-body shop schools would teach it as a preferred repair method. They don't.

People who advocate (and have lead on their cars) like to brag, "My car has no bondo at all... all metal." Well, that's not a perfect chassis. They just have a different type of body filler. You could use dog crap or peanut butter and still be able to brag the same thing.

I'm not suggesting anyone go slather Bondo all over their cars. Like paint, primer, welding, etc, etc... plastic body filler needs to be used properly on a correctly prepared and shaped surface. If you take the time to use the product right, then there's nothing wrong with it.

-Rusty

LEAD!!

Come on, it's a 914.

Not some Dusenberg owned by Jay Leno.

99% of all cars have bondo on them.

Use quality materials, do the prep correctly, and be done with it.

Is this the Ferrari forum?

Paul

There are different grades of filler(bondo) as I have learned. But yes, I think using bondo in moderation is sort of the key. Form and shape the metal as best you can, use a little filler to get that last 10-15% as has been stated earlier. I have done body work, painted cars and learned that I can get that 100% look, but generally don't have the patience for it. It is an art, a time comsuming art to straighten out body panels. Most of my body work I just don't do anymore. I leave that to people who know what they are doing.

bondo is ok when worked properly

this is a good body man.anyone who is good at body work will work the metal till you only have 1/8 or less filler required.once the metal has been streched its very hard to get it to return to its original shape.

Lawrence, I think you answered the major question as to why major shops use plastic filler over lead: time. Shops have to get the cars out the door and the money in the bank.

Actually, I knew two old guys who could lead beautifully at the resto shop where I worked. But the only cars that got leaded were the 356s. The owner would have only ever done 356s if he could have, and considered it his Duty to restore them to "factory." So they got the "Hand of God" treatment: tiny welds ground smooth, sheet metal hand-shaped as close as possible, then a skinning of lead only where necessary. The results were a sight to behold, but these cars took time, many months of time. I think it was more of a nod to tradition than a question of "better." Moreover, the cars' owners wanted it and were willing to pay.

Td, you're the first person that I've seen that also uses All-Metal. After I've finished my shaping, grinding and pounding, I only use AM, great stuff. Highly recommended.

ALL METAL? where can I read about it or get it? What does it look like when it dries. More info please

Absolutley All Metal ROCKS

You should be able to aquire it at any local Auto Body supply store. Unless they changed the packaging it comes in a silver labeled can. It is made by a company called US Chemical (right here in beautiful Canton, Ohio ).

It is lightweight, very sandable, can be filed, fills small holes very well, is waterproof, can be drilled (yes drilled) without cracking. What else can you say it is super stuff.

In the FWIW column.... I also use thier top coat filler called Icing (white tube-pink putty). I only use this to fill pin holes and VERY shallow imperfections. I would say less than 1/32 thick.

Evercoat Metal-2-Metal is easier to find in my area. It the same type of stuff but harder to work with.

I tried to hammer the stuff off a test sheet..nothing doin. It does not come off.

BTW: Ever wonder where the seam goes where the door meets near the latch?

When the paint is original , why is the area around the fender seam by the window less glossy than the rest of the car?

lead...lead...lead. Lots of it.

Be carefull! Dont smoke that lead!


Hootus..now that was a funny thread!

-Rich Hilgersom



http://www.evercoat.com
Metal-2-Metal™
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Aluminum filled body repair filler for metal surfaces. Has excellent corrosion resistance and superior adhesion to galvanized steel and aluminum. Will not sag. Best known as the "nearest thing to lead." Moisture proof. Rustproof. Easily sands to a fine featheredge. Metal-2-Metal™ liquid reactor included.

Guys there is nothing wrong with using a filler, whether it is a plastic based or metal based. I have and will continue to use it but only where it is absolutely necessary and in a very minimal amount. In my opinion if you are not good enough to do the body work without piling on the mud then you have no business painting or doing body work on a car.

AS far as brands I have been very happy with Rage by evercoat. I also use some of their two part spot putty. I prefer a filler that doesn't grow a lot and will have an ever so slight amount of flex to cut down on cracking.

Replacing metal is the only way to fix crappy work in my experience. Then use an minute amount of filler over the weld bead, not fill the whole fender with mud and shape from there.