beautiful weekend at Moroso but had 2 major problems.

1. Losing oil pressure in any cornering situation. Has great pressure on the street but at the first turn in race 1, lost all oil pressure. Was able to kill the motor right away and pull off. I am not running any kind of deep sump or tuna can. I didn't think TIV's were that bad at starvation. Even with the accusump, didn't help. I think the problem is that with all the plumbing, coolers, etc, takes too long for the oil pump to re-prime. Also, at high rpms (+6000), too much oil is in the heads and that makes it worse for starving the pickup.

Went on a back road between races and ran her thru the gears, pressure was always > 65psi. So no problem under straight acceleration.

So I have to run either the tuna can or some kind of deep sump. SCAT makes a 1.5qt for a TIV. It hangs low so I would fab a skid plate for it.

2. Tranny is barfing oil. It is towards the front of the tranny so I thought it came from the breather. I filled the tranny with the ass end of the car up so maybe I put too much in.

If its not coming from the breather then it is the front seal on the input shaft. Is that hard to change? Can you do it from the front or do you have to dissasemble?

Beyond these problems the car ran pretty good. No fuel leaks, couple oil fittings needed tightening, and gotta adjust the idle.

This motor pulls like a beast. Feels very much like the raw power of my old C Sport Racer. Its cranky below 3000 but from 4000 to 7500 the thing screams.

I hope I can get this stuff sorted before the next race. It is our big weekend for vintage in 2 weeks.

i bet you didnt get a chance to see how well your dual coolers worked

it was pretty hot in the afternoon, 85+ degrees. Oil temps, CHT's, EGT's all were in mid range.

Your right though, wont know for sure until I can run her several laps at speed.

hmmm, a custom deep some would be so trick. like only an inch deep, but wide enuff (like out to the heads wide) to hold several qts of oil...

have you thought about drysumping?

Thought about dry-sump, not sure what is involved. Can a dry sump use the pump in the motor or do you have to run an auxilliary scavenge pump?

Anyway, if a deep sump cures the problem, I'd go with that for now.

Are you doing the work yourself?
If not, who is?
There are a couple of really good 914 shops in your area. The 901 Shop and Black Forest Racing are very close and have great reputations. Also, not too far away in Orlando is Zotz Racing.
Good luck, I wish I was still down there to watch you go around.

I've done everything here accept build the motor

I wimped out on that. The car was down for 7 months just doing the install, new plumbing, electric, etc. Would be 2 years if I tried to build it myself but one day I would like to try that.

I would steer clear of Zotz. The 901 shop seems pretty professional. I hear Black Forest knows there stuff but I have worked with them before and was not impressed.

If you are racing a four you need to be dry sumped. Dry sumped will not be cheap. You need a new pump, modified case and heads, new cooling system, oil tank and all of the plumbing.

Dry sump will control oil much better and it can help keep your motor alive. When you build competetive race chassis that is really capable of pulling 1.5+ Gs then you must go to dry sump.

I have had no problem with Zotz at all. Although I think they like six cylinder 914s better.

Good reputation, honest, and nice people.

I have been using them for 10+ years with no problems. If you deal with Ron, Terry, or old-man Harro, everything is great!

brady and Jack refenning at 901 shop are great guys, they worked on my other car but now they moved and are 4 hours away.

John Forbes @ Blackforest is a good guy but so far I haven't needed to call him.

I will try and make this work with the wet sump. I don't think my chassis will be capable of 1.5g's in its current state, maybe close to 1g on braking.

I don't like the idea that the deep sump hangs entirely on that one bolt in the case. That is alot of weight to hang off the bottom of the motor. Overtightening that bolt or god forbid hitting it would toast the entire case.

Terry doesn't work there anymore. I don't have a problem with Ron. I am referring to the substandard people they bring to the track to work on Customer cars.

I would try a tuna can first...pretty cheap, you can slap one on in an evening...and plenty of guys run em. Then if that still doesn't work you can always try the harder stuff later. What kinda valve do you have on the accusump? I have heard that the electronic valve is alot slower than the manual valve, could be an issue also???

Good luck,

Tony

dr,

i couldn't make it there, i'll try again in 2 weeks.

hope you get it sorted out.

doug

I have a tuna can from the old motor. We thought this motor might work without it but I guess not. There are some oiling mods on the motor but the starvation is still an issue.

I have the manual valve. The speed of discharge re: the accusump has nothing to do with manual or electric valve. The valve basically closes when the motor is shut down, opens before starting to pre-oil. The valve is always full open while running. The oil pressure maintains an equallibrium between the motor and the accusump tank.

I've run a tuna can for years and never had a problem with pressure.
Wish someone made an aluminum one.
And while you're at it, make it with an o-ring so it seals better. Mine leaks.

When do you run a Sebring, Dave?

Paul

Mine is aluminum. Got it from HPH a few years ago. Still had the Garrettson instructions.

I am planning on the Moroso Vintage race in 2 weeks, don't know when I'll be at Sebring though. I'll let you know if I'm gonna be up there.

Maybe I'll just try the tuna can.

Paul, do you run over the top line on the dipstick? How much?

Dave,
I fill it a little less than a 1/4" over the top line on the dipstick.

Are you going to try thr PCA Club race in Feb?
Paul

Dave,
What did you go with for a breather/catch tank?
Does it automatically drain back into the engine?

I'm surprised you had a problem like you describe, if your oil level was correct and the Accusump set up properly.

At what pressure do you close the Accusump valve before shutting off the engine? & how much pressure does it have when empty?

Maybe a 3qt Accusump is necessary in a 914 wet sumped race car.

I would avoid the deep sump bandaid.

You can upgrade to dry sump with a 2 stage oil pump that fits in the stock location, a bit of plumbing, and a dry sump oil tank.

Paul, I'll be at the Sebring 48 hrs, guess I'll see you then.

Chris, put the catch can in the trunk. It doesn't drain back. There was maybe an ounce of oil in there after the limited running I did.

The accusump seems to work perfectly. I think the problem may be that with all the plumbing I have, there may be room for extra air pockets which in turn makes it harder for the sump to get its prime back.

I'm using one of the MIL spec one way valves at the return line.

With all that oil plumbing you have, how do you check the oil ?
Do you run the motor to get all the circuits oiled, shut it off and check levels before it seeps back into the case?

Could you just be low on oil?

Just throwing out the obvious.

KT

and here is the line accusump plumbing...

I have a 2 quart accusump and front/rear coolers and had some of the same problems. Here's what I have found out so far:

I check the oil with the engine running.

First Raby engine did not have windage tray mods to allow oil to drain back to sump quickly. new engine has windage tray mod.

I run the manual valve about 1/2 way open, I think there is a sweet spot to make sure the oil pressure doesn't drop on recharge. I actually had pressure go away on straight after sweeping turn.

If I still have problem, I will go with deep sump. I can't believe the small volume in a tuna can will do much good.

That's interesting that you mentioned cracking the valve on the accusump. I had mentioned that to Jake as a way to control or limit how much and how fast the tank dumps its load when its required.

I do have the windage tray mods. I'm installing the deep sump this weekend. My next race is the weekend after that so I'll try and test it on the street somehow before then.

Jake even modifies the deep sump to control oil slosh side to side. This never ends, but that's the fun part, I think.

On my 914 I have cut the sump in 3 sections and made it long and narrow and installed internal provisions to guard against oil sloshing....

I'm constantly working on ways to make this starvation issue better and better, the sump has cured every one that we have had to use it on without my mods- they are just for test purposes.