Ok Brad, you’ve got my attention. Actually you had it all along and this project is finally getting close to the top of the new projects list. I’m finally looking at doing a 914 rear swaybar. The design would be similar to my existing swaybar designs with the following criteria. Target price will also be the same. Here is what I’m thinking so far.

1) Hollow chrome moly heat treated bar design.
2) Anodized 6061-T6 aluminum arms with slots for adjusting stiffness.
3) Adjustable droplinks with spherical bearing rod ends for eliminating preload.
4) Noncompliant bushings for the pivot points.
5) Bolt on design using all metric hardware, with no welding or cutting required.
6) Short droplinks to prevent contact with trunk on lowered cars.
7) Optional longer droplinks to allow mounting inside trunk.
8) Size will be about 16mm or 17mm equivalent stiffness and will be determined with testing.

I’m open to any suggestions, so feel everyone free to comment. Currently I’m trying to finalize the design requirements, come up with a realistic design solution, and determine if there’s a big enough market to justify moving forward. Unfortunately I don’t have a 914 to design around. Anyone with a 914 near San Diego interested in helping? Eventually I’ll also need some help with the testing. Initially, I’ll probably build three sets of prototypes and would like to get them on cars that are already sorted out and see a lot of track time. The test cars don’t necessarily need to be near by. At least one car needs to be relatively stock. I have a Weltmeister bar to start designing around, but could also use a factory bar to work with if anyone has one I can borrow or buy. This is your chance to get your opinions heard. Is there interest in a high quality 914 rear swaybar? What features would you like to see? Would anyone be interested in helping with a car to design around and with prototype testing? Target dates would be prototype testing in the spring and the 1st production run in the summer.

Thanks!
Ira

only thing missing is driver adjustable while in the driver seat

seriously, I think it's a good idea, of course I've never driven a 914 with a rear bar and it seems that it used to be the 1st thing to get disconnected (cause "everyone" said it to be)......

it might be more popular with the track guys than the auto-x guys since very tight corners/open diff tends to favor no rear bar (from what I have read)..agressive street drivers could benifit as well.....

Don't you need to go stiffer in the back to get the front to stick better on tight corners?

yes, but on AX at tight corners, cars with a rear bar tend to lift a wheel off the ground and if you don't run a LS, you're soooo out of luck ...

having said that, i'd buy one!
one thing i always hate is when you don't have any markings on the slider for the droplink.
i always have to measure left right to get them close, would be nice to have a few lines (think ruler) to make that easier ...

Andy

Andy, you do not have to get both sides even, in fact, you could just leave one side alone and only adjust the other side....the Carrera GTs rear bar (and possibly the front one as well, I have not looked at mine yet, LOL) is only adjustable on one side.

I do like the idea however of having some sort of "markings" or easy referance method for adjusting.

IRA,
I'd be up for one late next year for Bluecar, front as well.

Ira:
My brother has an uninstalled rear bar he might let you borrow. He is in O-side. I have been trying to get him to join but he hasn't yet. PMing you his contact info.

if its anything like your fronts, it'll be a great product!

i do have a question regarding my setup tho.

my car is lowered a bunch. optimal swaybar geometry is when the arm is parrelel to the ground. i can only adjust each side .5" in without the arms pointing upward instead of level with the ground. almost like the threaded sleeves need to be shorter.

Aaron,
Having the arms parallel to the ground is optimal, but being slightly off is ok. The drop links should be able to go at least 1” shorter than stock. I designed them to fit my 911, which is very low. They need to be set almost as short as they’ll go to keep the arms level on my car. Are yours set as short as possible? I’m wondering if 914’s are slightly different. Please send or post a picture if you can. How much shorter do you think they need to be? There’s probably some room to make them a little shorter and still work for cars that are higher. Is anyone else seeing this problem?

Thanks,
Ira

yeah. theyre as short ass possible. ill see if i can get a pic this weekend.

had to install it .5cm lower to clear the gas tank to.

yes! (and i thought i was alone) ...

i can post pictures later tonight from home.
Andy

I haven’t heard about needing to install the bar lower to clear the tank. I have some thin jamb nuts that may allow enough additional adjustment to solve your problem. PM me your address, and I’ll send you some.

Thanks

Hey!

I want to be the tester guy.

I'll drive it hard and often a/x, track and street.

I'll post pics of the stock rear bar with the muffler off for easy viewing.
I had too turn my sway bar over to get more travel, as my car is VERY low and the bar was whacking the body all the time.

Regarding wheel lift: the addition of the rear bar and Engman's long kit eliminated front lift completly due to HUGE front bar.

KT

Do you mean that you put the rear bar in the trunk? A shorter drop link will help prevent it fron hitting, but there's a compromise.

Your pictures will be very helpfull at this point.

Ira, make all your sway bars hollow!!! all that extra weight I carry with solid bars..

I could laser mark the graduations!

no, you can flipp the stock bar over and gain more clearance without having to route it through the trunk ...

Andy

I have a Weltmeister that I'd love to get rid of. I do a lot of track days so I'd be happy to be a tester. I'm not sure what size the Welt is but I would probably want one slightly smaller as my Welt is set a near full soft. I have big rear springs, 400#.

Patrick,
I'd be very interisted in talking to you about laiser marking graduations. I've managed to not increase my swaybar prices in over four years. I've always wanted to do laiser marking but am worried about the cost. Send me your number and we can talk.

Thanks

Andy,
If the Weltmeister bar fits better flipped over, why wouldn’t it always be mounted that way. Does anyone have a picture of this?

Drew,
What are you running up front to balance out those springs? I’ve seen your car at Willow before. Where are you located?

Tim,
Hollow of course.

Ira,
Email sent.

The bar is in the stock position. Mounted above the exhaust.
Installed in one position the bar has only 1" of travel.
Installed upside down from the previous you get 3-4" 's.

The bar is curved on the arms so it does matter which position it is in on a LOW car.

KT

Ira; Up front I have 22mm torsion bars, 23mm Smart bar, Koni adjustable shocks. My rear Welt is a 16mm. I am in the Van Nuys area of the San Fernando Valley.

here's some pics of the rear susp.

2-3 inches of travel with bar in this position.
.5 inch upside down.

here

'gain

last

Thanks Ira. You will be contacted very soon about your products for our ecomm.

Yes. The secret to keeping your STOCK 914 rear bar form hitting the trunk floor.... flip it over from stock.


B

You get even more travel if you install upside down and attach the droplinks going down...like this. It works just the same.



-Britain

hmmm... almost looks like you could hook the swaybar directly to the trailing arms

I'm interested in the rear sway... from you IRA... love the front bar I have.

Keep us posted and give us a group buy on the new item before it hits the distributors they can get pissed off about it.

- Dave

That distributor will probably be US Dave... LOL

B

Britain, does the bar loses any of it's effectiveness pushing instead of pulling?

KT

The bar doesnt care which direction it is being pulled or pushed. I told you about this last week.


B

Yes, I remember. I even made the changes on my car before the a/x.

I'm just curious if changing the drop link angle like that is like softening the bar. Full travel but, less overall bar action.

KT

Bar action didnt change. You didnt change the effective length of the bar...



B

the angle changed tho. so you lose some advantage, droplinks work best when pointed staright up

Not my bar...Britain's, in the picture.

KT

The drop link length didnt change either. I see NO way that the effective rate changed. The angle is the same just opposite.


B

be right back with some illustrations.

*Armchair Engineer Says*

Not necessarily straight up, more specifically, parallel to the path of travel of the suspension pickup.

In my pic the link is parallel to the shock, while Britain's is not.

His link is kicked slightly toward the back of the car.



Wouldn't it take more force to move Britain's link the same distance as mine?

I don't really know anything.
Just making noise.

KT

ok here goes. (armchair engineer LMAO!!!)
seems like shortening drop links to make them parellel to suspension movement would be ideal.

think front sway bars: works best when arm is parallel to ground.

Sorry to get off-topic, but

SHUT UP AARON.


Sorry...


M

dammit miles! your meds are on the table, take them!!!

be a good boy and go to bed!

I dont agree about the front bar working "better" with the arms parrallel... lol

B

im sorry. you lose mechanical advantage when they arent parralell

wheres CF bob when you need him? hes a physics guru....or even alfred. dont make me do it!

I have enough xanax to pack a Mack truck in a boxcar, and use the xanax for popcorn.

The rear links are not straight up and down when the rear bar is in its stock location. They are angled just like in Trekkors pics.. the angle doesnt change when you flip the bar over.

Can you tell me how much mechanical advantage is lost ?

Honestly I dont care. I adjust the bars as needed... doesnt matter whether they are parrallel or not. I dial them according to what the car needs for that given course.


B

the angle of the "arms" and drop links have alot do do with it.

you get less rotation of the bar, from non parellel arms.....

cant tell you how much advantage is lost... but it is.