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tumamilhem
What you should know should you decide to badge your 914.


TO BADGE OR NOT TO BADGE. THAT IS THE QUESTION. ONE OF THEM, ANYWAY.


We all love our beloved Porsche, er...VW...uh, VW-Porsche 914s. Therein lies a silly to some, but in actuality, a long-time identity crisis for this car, particularly persuaded one way or the other by engine type (/4 or /6). Yet even the /6 with the Porsche engine was unbadged (save the model photographed for its Driver's Manual). Some may find this a silly issue, yet some purists remain conflicted to how they should - or want to ID their 914. Badge it, or not?

Those who are purists or make their cars Concourse may not don the emblem crest upon their bonnet - though may want to, but authentic integrity prevents them. Most of us go ahead and ID our (Porsche) 914 with the Stuttgart horse and coat of arms shield because of its nice finishing and polished touch.

So what are your thoughts on badging your car or not? And if not, what hesitations prevent you?


BEARING THE BADGE ON THE BONNET; BUT WHERE...EXACTLY?

If you decide to badge your car, where exactly is it placed? No crest emblems were ever applied by Porsche (or VW, obviously), save the only known car, the 914-6 on the cover of the Driver's Manual. Dealers gave the option to install, but how did they know where to place the badge (exactly)? Most simply center and place it to where they think it will look good. But if you want to don the Porsche crest on your bonnet, wouldn't you want to place it (and drill holes into your hood) exactly where it's "supposed" to be? According to the only known factory-placed Porsche crest emblem on a 914 bonnet, it is 80mm from the bottom point of the badge to the top of the bumper lead, centered in the middle of the bonnet.

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Beautiful all original car tainted by incorrectly placed shield too high on the bonnet and slightly to the right of center.


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The only known factory-correct placement of a Porsche shield on the bonnet of a 914 on the 914/6 Driver's Manual.



DONNING THE CREST. BUT WHICH ONE?

If you are going to badge your bonnet, you're also going to want to make it "authentic" by using the period correct emblem. Unfortunately, this is a bit tricky for a couple of reasons, one depending on what year your 914 is.

It seems somewhere in 1973 OR 1974, the Porsche crest changed. Conflicting authorities say it was changed sometime during 1973 and others say sometime during 1974 (instead of changing at the beginning of the year for more specific and simple identity). Ergo, some cars produced in that year (whichever happens to be correct) that donned the crest (911s) had one badge and at some point later in that year donned the "new" badge. So you could have two 911s of the same year and depending on when during the year they were produced would determine which badge would be correct.

Where this falls into place on the 914 is to know what period-correct badge (would've) gone on your car if it was factory badged. This is not an issue with late '69-'72 models or '75 and '76 models. However, if you have a '73 or '74 model, who's to say which crest is correct for your car? Depending on what time of year it was produced and which year it was produced (Porsche's website has both badges for 1973 year cars, indicating it may have changed sometime mid-1973. However other authorities, including P914.com and PorscheResource.com claim it was changed sometime in mid-1974, hence both badges would be period-correct depending on what time of year your car was produced). During the time the Porsche shield changed, be it mid-1973 or mid-1974, the most distinctive difference are the color bars. The prior years had orange and black bars, as opposed to the latter years donning the now more commonly recognizable red and black bars.

The other problem in badging your car "correctly" is finding the right badge. The early orange and black bar shields are difficult to find and draw a high price - and a lot of faux badges. More dimpling than the original, slightly off raised PORSCHE lettering, no marks on the back or slightly incorrect marks on the back or a smooth back, no solder marks where the pins are and slight curvature of the shield are identifiable signs of a high-priced fake, though many are difficult to tell apart. The latter early red and black bar badge is not as expensive, though still pricey as there have been three red and black bar badges to since follow it (one after 1976 being identical on the front but having full ID number on the back as manufacturer had changed), having transparent red bars as opposed to the original opaque orange and black enamel paint over the PORSCHE text with slightly different font lettering. The early red and black bar badges, being the most identifiable amongst the masses, are the most commonly fake productions.

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Period-correct orange and black bar shield for early 1973 (or) early 1974 and prior Porsches. This one came off of a 1968 911E.


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The evolution of the Porsche crest (per Porsche).


Tom_T
Great write up!

In addition to the early 914-6 prototype(s) with the hood/bonnet badges (one of which is what was used for your owners manual pic above), both "factory custom-built" 914-8 (one for Dr. Porsche & the other for Piech) sported hood badges .... oddly enough both in different position by the factory, as shown below......

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I personally prefer it closer to the leading edge of the hood/bonnet/lid, rather than further up, as did apparently somebody at the factory.

The lid's leading edge is backed up on the underside by the front cross-element of the lid's frame, so the placement will also depend upon clearing that brace, since in most cases you don't want a pin going through the skin+brace due to both the added depth & the fact that there can be movement between the two parts, eventually popping off the pin fasteners & loosing the badge somewhere on the road!

Part of the confusion on the 80 mm placement may be that the 914 has the deck lid PLUS the bumper top pad to a frontal start point, whereas the 911 does not & simply has a roll-over edge - ergo, one could measure from the leading edge of the front bumper top pad & back to the point.

Since it was a Dealer Option, perhaps there was a dealer service bulletin that came out in the day which told them where to place it on the 914??? Maybe some of our members who worked there back in the day could chime in if they recall anything of the sort? confused24.gif

Here is a confirmed dealer applied badge on a known original owner 72 914/4 1.7 of a long time buddy of mine.....

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I've kept the pix all in the same orientation for ease of comparing locations.

As for your "To badge or not...." query, I too am still unsure if I will badge my early 73 914-2.0's front in my resto (she was never badged by the dealer AFAIK) - as well as the dealer option PORSCHE script positive side stripes, because I really do like the look & added bling on a L80E Light Ivory - basically white - 914, but then there is the originality purism question. So maybe I'll get another front lid, paint two & mount the badge on one, as the side stripes are vinyl & can be removed - since with off-white the fading would be minimal to none behind the stripes & between the deck lids. idea.gif

Also FYI & for those interested, I just saw an ad in the Panorama that Porsche is again selling correct badges from the various periods' resto's, so NOS is no longer the only option.

Porsche also sells new correct 901/914 shifter knobs (shift pattern) & crush rings - which brings up another "badging" another dilemma for me, as my 73 914-2.0 had the dealer optioned leather/leatherette shift knob with the Porsche crest as officially sanctioned by Porsche, made by AMCO, & sold by Porsche+Audi dealerships & AMCO direct.

While Pat & many on here hold true to the "...only as is came out the factory doors originality test...." - my personal attitude on O&H correctness - & that of many multi-marque Concours d'Elegance organizations in the US & worldwide - is that anything should be a period correct original or true to original reproduction of items both from the factory &/or as available at the time "back in the day" from dealers & other factory authorized sources, such as the above badges, side stripes, shift knobs, etc. - which were considered "personalization" items by Porsche - as well as AC (VPC & DPD) - with any updates as necessitated by wear/age or law (e.g.: R12 to R134 conversions of compressor), and things like suspension bushings, Sachs, Koni or Bilstein shocks/struts, tires (a whole other size/type dilemma today), etc. which would need to be replaced with time & use.

We have to keep in mind that back in the 1950's, `60's & `70's that Porsche & many other European auto manufacturers did NOT provide a complete line of options on their cars - especially those for export to the USA & other markets, but rather authorized or licensed other OEM/OES manufacturers to make the parts & accessories to be sold through their dealerships etc.

Ergo, DPD, AMCO & others - and particularly Volkswagen of America (VOA) & it's Volkswagen Products Corporation (VPC) were authorized to make a number of products sold through Porsche+Audi dealerships (VOA dealerships also sold Porsches up to the 1970 MY, when they were required to open separate Porsche+Audi dealership facilities), while VOA was still the overarching corporate presence for marketing in the USA until the mid- or late-70's.

Likewise, even Porsche has reacted to changes over time in availability in tires, oils & other parts, and have offered factory guidance on what to use now in their recommendation bulletins/letters - and are therefore accepted by the penultimate "factory." (See the Porsche letter recommending 195/65R15 for 165R15 tires in the O&H "Wheels & Tires" nailed topic.)

Of note in the dealer options brochure pages below, that the alloy wheels & chrome tailpipe extension are parts shown in the 914 PET parts manual, and are listed therein alongside the accessory/option items made by AMCO (shift knobs, overriders & luggage rack) & by VoA/VPC (AC, center storage box & console, etc.) - so how one can draw an arbitrary line between factory made vs. OEM/OES authorized items all available to buyers & clients at their local Porshe+Audi dealership, as part of Porsche's corporate mixed sourcing & outsourcing strategy.

IMHO, this thinking of super-strict originality taken to the extreme, then leads one to say that an identical EFI part from a Bosch box & p/n is not original but the identical part from a Porsche box & p/n is, or ditto for your replacement shocks. While that is extreme, it's probably attractive to Porsche for parts sales revenue for as long as they're fully supporting a MY/model, but falls apart afterward.

That said, I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and we all should accept that we'll have differences & respect others' choices.

So to badge or not - you pick either:
1.) I like a badge & will do it, or ....
2.) the "Badges.....We don't need no stinkin' badges....He-he-he-he!!!!! approach. biggrin.gif

1972 Dealer Options Brochure (courtesy of Jeff Bowlsby's excellent 914 website):

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Note that these accessories/options above are shown for both 911 & 914 models, so dealer sold outsourced items were available for ALL Porsche models in that period, as are some sold even today.

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I think that there was also a page or two showing the frontal options/accessories (e.g.: chrome front bumper overriders, etc.) - which may have also shown the front hood/bonnet/lid badge for the 914, as I recall seeing something of the sort when we used to go to the local LA Porsche+Audi dealership during college in 1970-74 just to wub.gif & drooley.gif !!!!
Jaymann
I have decided not to badge,because I think, it looks more clean without it.I did buy a new badge for my car,(From someone here, who also is not going to badge)who figured after he painted his car,no way was he going to put holes in the hood.So, I got one for sale,if anyone wants one.Before, I put my rocker covers back on the car.There was nothing ,that said porsche, on the outside of the car.I got alot more attention then,from people just trying to figure out, what the hell it was.It still gets looks every where I go,but i am not getting chased down in traffic so much,buy people asking what kind of car is that.Do what you want,it looks good both ways, I think.It all depends what look you are going for.Jason from PA
SirAndy
The "badge" on the red prototype looks like a sticker and not a badge at all.
It has no depth to it.

Either way, prototype cars should not be in this discussion as they have many, many, many, many, many details that never made it into production.

Save that for another thread ...
shades.gif


QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 11:17 AM) *
In addition to the early 914-6 prototype(s) with the hood/bonnet badges (one of which is what was used for your owners manual pic above), both "factory custom-built" 914-8 (one for Dr. Porsche & the other for Piech) sported hood badges .... oddly enough both in different position by the factory, as shown below......

Click to view attachment

tumamilhem
QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 02:17 PM) *

Great write up!


Thanks! And WOW what a great follow up to this! Great content you provided! beerchug.gif

I never saw the badge on the orange 914 from the museum (have seen it there, just not the front of the car). I presume that's the other 914/8 made for the museum since it has the prototype front bumper. I've never seen a badge that low! Maybe because it's a prototype. I don't care for it there. I do like it nicely placed even with the headlights, mid-height (halfway up). Gives a nice, even symmetrical look.

Coincidentally, I have that chrome luggage rack that was a dealer option. It was on my 914 that I have up for sale in the classifieds (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=197510&st=0&gopid=1769486&#entry1769486). I knew it wasn't an option from Porsche but I have seen the same rack on other 914s and presumed it was a dealer option fro another company (seen them on VW as well). So I do get yoru point on what was "factory" or not. I was mostly referring to what left the Karmann and Porsche factories, not what was made available at dealerships since we can all by "extras" that are accessories at dealerships that were not specifically intended by the car companies themselves. But I do see your point of view. I removed my luggage rack (though it did come in handy on a few trips to the airport) and was thinking of selling it separately if anybody may be interested in it. Very nice rack. No pun intended. happy11.gif

The latter options look more for a 911. Not sure that roof rack would be too secure for a 914 targa top as opposed to hard body coupe. I recognize that center console with the two buttons from 911 and a few others. Never seen one on a 914. Nor that rear chrome bar.

Thanks for replying with such great info to follow this up! This is my first content thread here on 914 World (not including my classified ad and looking for members in my area). rolleyes.gif

2 Points for the Newbie! smilie_pokal.gif
tumamilhem
QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 02:17 PM) *


In addition to the early 914-6 prototype(s) with the hood/bonnet badges (one of which is what was used for your owners manual pic above), both "factory custom-built" 914-8 (one for Dr. Porsche & the other for Piech) sported hood badges .... oddly enough both in different position by the factory......


Well if Ferry Porsche can badge his 914 then so can I! lol beer3.gif
steuspeed
No badge. Cleaner look. It would just be stolen anyway with some nice paint damage.
Tom_T
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 20 2012, 12:56 PM) *

The "badge" on the red prototype looks like a sticker and not a badge at all.
It has no depth to it.

Either way, prototype cars should not be in this discussion as they have many, many, many, many, many details that never made it into production.

Save that for another thread ...
shades.gif


QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 11:17 AM) *
In addition to the early 914-6 prototype(s) with the hood/bonnet badges (one of which is what was used for your owners manual pic above), both "factory custom-built" 914-8 (one for Dr. Porsche & the other for Piech) sported hood badges .... oddly enough both in different position by the factory, as shown below......

Click to view attachment




Andy - his topic starts with mention of the 914-6 prototype photo as used in the production 914-6 owners manuals (& early 914/4 too??) as well as the photo of same, so I was merely adding that other prototypes & one early production 914-6 "photo car" had the hood badges.

I agree that it may just be a sticker on the red-orange 914-8, but the point was for placement as done by the factory in their considerations of where to place same. It being a sticker could explain why it's position would conflict with pins going through the front frame element on the underside.

IMHO the prototypes are appropriate here for the sole purpose of factory placement considerations, since at this point there is/are no other factory document guidance from them to the dealers, on where to properly place the hood badge when added by a buyer/customer.

PS - judging by post #5 above, the original topic starter agrees with my including it for reference info. shades.gif
SirAndy
QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 12:27 PM) *
his topic starts with mention of the 914-6 prototype photo as used in the production 914-6 owners manuals (& early 914/4 too??) as well as the photo of same, so I was merely adding that other prototypes & one early production 914-6 "photo car" had the hood badges.

The b/w photo from the owners manual does *not* show a prototype car.

Nothing in his first post is related to prototype cars.
IMHO, they add nothing to this discussion.

The image shown on the owners manual is of an early production 914-6 with 5-lug steel wheels and i can not spot a single "prototype" feature on that car.
shades.gif
Tom_T
QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Nov 20 2012, 01:07 PM) *

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 02:17 PM) *

Great write up!


Thanks! And WOW what a great follow up to this! Great content you provided! beerchug.gif

I never saw the badge on the orange 914 from the museum (have seen it there, just not the front of the car). I presume that's the other 914/8 made for the museum since it has the prototype front bumper. I've never seen a badge that low! Maybe because it's a prototype. I don't care for it there. I do like it nicely placed even with the headlights, mid-height (halfway up). Gives a nice, even symmetrical look.

Coincidentally, I have that chrome luggage rack that was a dealer option. It was on my 914 that I have up for sale in the classifieds (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=197510&st=0&gopid=1769486&#entry1769486). I knew it wasn't an option from Porsche but I have seen the same rack on other 914s and presumed it was a dealer option fro another company (seen them on VW as well). So I do get yoru point on what was "factory" or not. I was mostly referring to what left the Karmann and Porsche factories, not what was made available at dealerships since we can all by "extras" that are accessories at dealerships that were not specifically intended by the car companies themselves. But I do see your point of view. I removed my luggage rack (though it did come in handy on a few trips to the airport) and was thinking of selling it separately if anybody may be interested in it. Very nice rack. No pun intended. happy11.gif

The latter options look more for a 911. Not sure that roof rack would be too secure for a 914 targa top as opposed to hard body coupe. I recognize that center console with the two buttons from 911 and a few others. Never seen one on a 914. Nor that rear chrome bar.

Thanks for replying with such great info to follow this up! This is my first content thread here on 914 World (not including my classified ad and looking for members in my area). rolleyes.gif

2 Points for the Newbie! smilie_pokal.gif


agree.gif Good job Newbie! first.gif

The Bahia Red 71 914/4's dealer mounted badge uses approximately lines up with the leading edge of the headlight covers/back edge of the "eyebrows" to the left & right - which also nicely clears the frame bit on the underside, which is where I've seen most dealer installed optional badges, although the buyer/customer could pick their spot I'm sure.

IPB Image

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As for the options -
correct on the roof rack - 911/912 hard tops only (it is a dealer options & accessories brochure for all models - not just 914);

the center console states it's for the 914/4 (as well as the tiny car silhouettes below each item showing vehicle applicability) & I've seen it in a few 914s back in the day - mostly on 70-72/73 914-1.7s since they didn't have the option of the 73-76 914-2.0's center console as an option until the 73 MY;

the 5 spoke "Fuchs look" wheel covers/hubcaps apply to either model as well, and I'd seen them both on 914s & 911/912 back in the day;

and someone on here recently had the bumper over-rider bars on a car &/or for sale separately.

With any of these options which puncture the sheet metal parts - badges, luggage racks, bumper over-riders, radio antennas, etc. - a big concern in using them has to be rust issues developing at those points.

Cheers! beerchug.gif
Tom
///////
Tom_T
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 20 2012, 01:42 PM) *

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 12:27 PM) *
his topic starts with mention of the 914-6 prototype photo as used in the production 914-6 owners manuals (& early 914/4 too??) as well as the photo of same, so I was merely adding that other prototypes & one early production 914-6 "photo car" had the hood badges.

The b/w photo from the owners manual does *not* show a prototype car.

Nothing in his first post is related to prototype cars.
IMHO, they add nothing to this discussion.

The image shown on the owners manual is of an early production 914-6 with 5-lug steel wheels and i can not spot a single "prototype" feature on that car.
shades.gif


Andy, the hood badge in & of itself is a "prototype feature" not used on any production cars initially sold to the public. It was only on one or two 914-6's used in the 1969 pre-release promotional events & ads, and in the owner's manual pic.

Early 914-6s in the first few cars (first 10 or so) were not s/n'ed as were the initial hand built prototypes, but they certainly did have some elements which were either changed or not carried through into the full production run of the cars, as with the hood badge in the latter case. shades.gif

At that early date Porsche decided not to offer the hood badge as standard equipment on any 914 - not even 914-6s, but did continue to offer it as a dealer offered option in all 6 production years & thereafter. I was there then & saw them at dealerships 1969-76, and that was the way Porsche offered many options on their cars during that time, particularly AC for both 911/912 & 914 series cars since it was considered an essential option in the USA, but not in Europe - e.g.: a regional specific option (like Sweden, France or Italy specific items).

IIRC some or all of the US 914s also had the engine lid grill Porsche script letter badges added as part of dealer prep upon arrival in the USA, as were the 74 MY LE side stripes - in both cases due to the need to coat then remove the Cosmoline for protection during overseas shipment, so those are technically "dealer added options" offered only in the USA/NA market as well.
SirAndy
QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 01:02 PM) *
the hood badge in & of itself is a "prototype feature" not used on any production cars initially sold to the public.

I don't agree with your use of the word "prototype". IMHO, you're using it in a much too general context.

There were only very few real 914 prototype cars and none of them should be part of this discussion.
Again, the car pictured on the owners manual is *not* a prototype.

There are plenty of production cars with hood badges to talk about (even if dealer installed).

I find it irritating that you need to refer to anything remotely deviating from production as "prototype".
IMHO, that dilutes the very meaning of that word.

popcorn[1].gif
tumamilhem
Come to think of it Tom, I do recall recently seeing that center console on a couple 914s in pics of cars for sale. I wonder what the two switches would've been hooked up to since most everything in the cabin is manual save the items that already have switches (lights, etc.). The only thing I can think of is the Euro rear fog light. But that also has its own place in the dash front for a switch if installed. Interesting.

Also regarding drilling holes for the badge (luggage rack, etc.), I dabbed a bit if paint around the cut rim so no metal was exposed. Painting the pins behind the badge may also be a good idea. That way there will be no rust. There's no rust in the holes where my badge is.
jimbot2000
The 914-8 in the Zuffenhausen Museum has a sticker on the hood. I was there back in May and took a bunch of pictures of this car so I could see some details for my build. The front wings are also welded to the cowl. I thought that was pretty interesting. Anyway, here's some porn for you guys!
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tumamilhem
I really dig the under curve of the chrome bumper and the wide oval air opening. pretty cool. I'd really be interested in seeing what those pop up headlights look like. They're so wide! Maybe dual lights in each? huh.gif
Tom_T
QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Nov 20 2012, 03:02 PM) *

Come to think of it Tom, I do recall recently seeing that center console on a couple 914s in pics of cars for sale. I wonder what the two switches would've been hooked up to since most everything in the cabin is manual save the items that already have switches (lights, etc.). The only thing I can think of is the Euro rear fog light. But that also has its own place in the dash front for a switch if installed. Interesting.

Also regarding drilling holes for the badge (luggage rack, etc.), I dabbed a bit if paint around the cut rim so no metal was exposed. Painting the pins behind the badge may also be a good idea. That way there will be no rust. There's no rust in the holes where my badge is.


I think in most cases they ended up as dummies, but they could also be used as you say for the rear fog light, or switching updated audio with a separate multiple CD unit in the trunk (remember those!?), or any other aftermarket add-ons.

However, I personally know of at least one (ex-)owner who used them to do an electric window conversion back in the mid/late 80's, which IMHO is silly to add that type of weight.

Before anyone asks, I don't recall what he used for power regulators, just that he was pleased as punch to show off to all of us. Of course we teased him that next he needed to upbuild his 1.7 for more HP to carry that extra window weight! laugh.gif
bembry
No badge for me. It just screams "LOOK PLEASE--I'M A PORSCHE TOO!!!". Nein, Danke.

The Porsche 914-8's very subtle flares are really cool though. Never noticed hem before. Other than those, I'm not into flares either.

Oddly enough, I do have the luggage rack--which I put on myself--and really dig it! I also have carbs, and I don't hesitate to use remanufactured parts, so I'm not an ultra purist.
tumamilhem
QUOTE(bembry @ Nov 20 2012, 05:48 PM) *

No badge for me. It just screams "LOOK PLEASE--I'M A PORSCHE TOO!!!". Nein, Danke.

The Porsche 914-8's very subtle flares are really cool though. Never noticed hem before. Other than those, I'm not into flares either.

Oddly enough, I do have the luggage rack--which I put on myself--and really dig it! I also have carbs, and I don't hesitate to use remanufactured parts, so I'm not an ultra purist.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of the GT flares. They protrude too much I think. Upset the flow of the lines. Maybe if they were softer coming out of the car instead of so immediate. But the flares on the /8 are nice. Noticeable but more subtle. And I like the downward angle a lot more than just sticking straight out like the GT flares.
tumamilhem
Just for the record since I started this thread, I'll throw my two cents in. I do like the crest on my bonnet, though I would want it period correct. I just came across a very nice period correct orange and black bar (the one I posted). It has a small chip in the corner of the orange enamel, but it gives it a more vintage look I suppose. Though if I were to have an all stock original and impeccable 914 for show, I probably wouldn't put it on even though I prefer it on. I think that's why I thought to do this thread. I would hesitate and may not, but prefer to badge it with a nice, period-correct crest for originality integrity.

Ideally I'd like to have two. A pristine, all-original car and one that I could (intelligently, not put a Boxster body kit and other ridiculous add-ons) modify and soup up power to. A nicely done conversion. Then, since it would obviously exceed its originality, I would have no problem cresting that one.

Still thinking on the all-original one though. Undecided. Either way, we all have our own tastes. The important thing is to do what you enjoy and what pleases you to make you happy.
Tom_T
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 20 2012, 02:14 PM) *

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 01:02 PM) *
the hood badge in & of itself is a "prototype feature" not used on any production cars initially sold to the public.

I don't agree with your use of the word "prototype". IMHO, you're using it in a much too general context.

There were only very few real 914 prototype cars and none of them should be part of this discussion.
Again, the car pictured on the owners manual is *not* a prototype.

There are plenty of production cars with hood badges to talk about (even if dealer installed).

I find it irritating that you need to refer to anything remotely deviating from production as "prototype".
IMHO, that dilutes the very meaning of that word.

popcorn[1].gif


Probably "pre-production" is a better term used in most auto mags of the day for the first few trial models of a car built on the actual production line.

However Andy, & for those wondering if the photo in the owners manual is a pre-production, production or prototype - if you compare the photo below as posted in the first post....

IPB Image

...

.... with the photo on the lower right of page 33 in Brian Long's "Porsche 914 & 914-6, The Definitive History of the Road & Competition Cars" (the later March 2006 printing with the Delphi Green & Beige interior car on the cover), you will see that this is the same exact 914-6 pic therein denoted in the caption as a "...914/6 prototype...." - but in the above case the background has been cropped out (I'm pretty sure they would overlay exactly if at the same size of the car's image).

I won't post a copy of that pic here, due to copyright infringement issues, so the folks here will just have to pull the book off the shelf & look it up "old school"!

It is indeed a pic of a prototype 914-6 showing the hood badge in the owners manual pic posted here, unless you're claiming that Brian Long was wrong in his photo caption noted above.

This isn't an O&H nailed topic where we're trying to keep permutations of the discussions out, but an open O&H topic which is supposed to be open to full discussion about & related to the topic(s).

That said, let us not further hijack his post with our discussion, and just agree to disagree on theses prototype matters, and respect that the original poster & maker of this topic appreciated my additions - prototypes included - and leave it at that. shades.gif
Tom_T
QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Nov 20 2012, 04:01 PM) *

Ideally I'd like to have two. A pristine, all-original car and one that I could (intelligently, not put a Boxster body kit and other ridiculous add-ons) modify and soup up power to. A nicely done conversion. Then, since it would obviously exceed its originality, I would have no problem cresting that one.

EDIT Below: I added some engine & headlight pix & info....

It's more cost effective & easier to store a 2nd hood painted to the car - then run the hood badge if that's what you prefer, & use the unadorned one for CW events where it matters. It's just 4 bolts to change out, but some time to get the panel joints right.

BTW - with PCA it doesn't matter either way until you get to national Parade, and only then if it's a close tie or challenged as not original. IIRC just a couple of years ago the top 2 914 class winners had hood badges in Illinois I think. Local regional & zone concours do not judge on originality at all anymore - just on how clean & well prep'ed the car is (I judge in Zone 8).

PS - I think it would be awesome to do a 914-8 tribute car build like you mention for that 2nd car, using the flat 8 magnesium/aluminum alloy case 908 aircooled engine & all of the brake, suspension & other upgrades as with the two 914-8 prototypes above! That would be a hot screamer & period correct! driving.gif

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

.

And I agree about the flares on the 914-8 vs. the 914-6/GTs - the latter looks like a current Detroit pick-up or SUV lump of a flare, whereas the 914-8's look like they should've for any 914 & similar to the smooth bodywork flares as used on 911 series cars of that day.

PSS - forgot to mention that they are dual hi/lo beam headlights on the 914-8.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
SirAndy
QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 03:30 PM) *
It is indeed a pic of a prototype 914-6 showing the hood badge in the owners manual pic posted here, unless you're claiming that Brian Long was wrong in his photo caption noted above.

Citing a reference (book) that is known to have more errors than Gene Simmons had mistresses is not really proving anything.

I most certainly question how Brian Long came to that conclusion.

I have a list of all the real prototype shells that were delivered by Karmann to Porsche.
That list is surprisingly short and most of them were /4 chassis!
Of the few /6 shells even fewer were build into actual road worthy cars.

Unless Brian Long (or anyone else for that matter) can produce a VIN number that falls within the prototype VIN range, i call BS on that one.

shades.gif
Tom_T
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 20 2012, 04:59 PM) *

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 03:30 PM) *
It is indeed a pic of a prototype 914-6 showing the hood badge in the owners manual pic posted here, unless you're claiming that Brian Long was wrong in his photo caption noted above.

Citing a reference (book) that is known to have more errors than Gene Simmons had mistresses is not really proving anything.

I most certainly question how Brian Long came to that conclusion.

I have a list of all the real prototype shells that were delivered by Karmann to Porsche.
That list is surprisingly short and most of them were /4 chassis!
Of the few /6 shells even fewer were build into actual road worthy cars.

Unless Brian Long (or anyone else for that matter) can produce a VIN number that falls within the prototype VIN range, i call BS on that one.

shades.gif


Okay, but let's leave it lie & not debate it further here..... dry.gif
tumamilhem
[/quote]
PSS - forgot to mention that they are dual hi/lo beam headlights on the 914-8.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
[/quote]

DAMN! I was right! I've never seen those before! Those dual headlights look awesome! biggrin.gif

Yeah if I could afford to have two and convert one, I'd definitely like a nice (not cheesy kit looking) V8 conversion. Too bad I'm broke and for the most part mechanically inept. :/


sixnotfour
dont drill holes, cut the posts off the back and use 3m double back trim tape, Or a decal....then you can move it around, because everyone will tell you where it should be and or you can take if off.

I run the sticker.
tumamilhem
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Nov 21 2012, 04:21 AM) *

dont drill holes, cut the posts off the back and use 3m double back trim tape, Or a decal....then you can move it around, because everyone will tell you where it should be and or you can take if off.

I run the sticker.



I wouldn't use a sticker. If I badge it I'd use the actual period-correct metal shield. Wouldn't the tape leave residue on the paint, especially after it gets hot? Also the heat I think would make the tape brittle over time and you'd want to make it secur to where it doesn't fall off from deterioration or stolen or damage paint.
Pat Garvey
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 20 2012, 04:14 PM) *

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 01:02 PM) *
the hood badge in & of itself is a "prototype feature" not used on any production cars initially sold to the public.

I don't agree with your use of the word "prototype". IMHO, you're using it in a much too general context.

There were only very few real 914 prototype cars and none of them should be part of this discussion.
Again, the car pictured on the owners manual is *not* a prototype.

There are plenty of production cars with hood badges to talk about (even if dealer installed).

I find it irritating that you need to refer to anything remotely deviating from production as "prototype".
IMHO, that dilutes the very meaning of that word.

popcorn[1].gif

Well Andy, we've found common ground!

Crest shouldn't be there - no matter placement.

It's bogus.

Anyone ever see a prancing horse on a 246 Dino? That would be bogus too.

Prototypes are just that - prototyypes. Engineers playing with NON-PRODUCTION cars.

"We don't need no stinking badges..."
scotty b
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Nov 21 2012, 01:21 AM) *

dont drill holes, cut the posts off the back and use 3m double back trim tape, Or a decal....then you can move it around, because everyone will tell you where it should be and or you can take if off.

I run the sticker.



Magnetic hood badges idea.gif
tumamilhem

[/quote]


Magnetic hood badges idea.gif
[/quote]

I thought about that. But could get stolen. Also the magnet is metal on paint. Will eventually damage paint. A buffer could be used, but would make the magnet insecure to the hood. Best thing is to commit to it or not.

MDG
Might just be the camera angle . . . but this dood got it totally wrong. ohmy.gif

Down . . . and to the left. Or is that right?


Click to view attachment
Eric_Shea
Didn't the 914-S have a badge? biggrin.gif

Bunch-O-Lads need a life...

tumamilhem
No the 914S didn't have a badge because it was never sold that way. There were ads for it but what they ended up doing was just calling it the 2.0.
dlestep
If one has a need to put an incorrect Porsche crest on the 914, the 944 silver crests look better, in my view, if I were to consider it.
I think the black background Wolfsburg crest would be more appropriate for the 914/4. I would never punch holes in the front trunk lid.
Since I no longer have my Porsche 2.4 donor engine and running with the T4, my
grill will not carry the P O R S C H E lettering. Yes, that too isn't correct for the
Porsche of American import, but I don't care.
If it doesn't have a 6, at least for me, it isn't a Porsche, but a Wolfsburg replacement
of the Ghia, which it is. The 914/4 has always had an identity crisis.
Engineering-wise, the 2.0 T4 matched the push-rod 356 power and was sufficient as an entry
level Porsche platform, and at the same time a sporty VW, that was a high-end Ghia
replacement.
The marketing guys were retards back then and failed to understand the huge
gap that has always existed between VW and Porsche. The 914/4 was a 1 mile
bridge across a 5 mile river by Porsche people, and a 5 mile bridge across a 1 mile
river, as far as VW people were concerned.
POA tried to tie them together with marketing mumbo-jumbo, Porsche/Audi/VW.
Even the 914/6 was considered ONLY a VOPO in Europe.
Despite everything, the 914 created its' own racing heritage, and its' own niche.
I always remind Porsche people (with airs), that real purpose-built Porsches
are mid-ship, and to go sit in a 904 prior to sitting in a 914. Now STFU !
[sidebar] I have always preferred Ferry's 914/8 over Piech's hideous version.
sixnotfour
if a thiief wants it they will take it.
When I owned the infamous Steel Top 914 someone removed the hood emblem with a screwdriver, Now that did some damage.
scotty b
QUOTE(dlestep @ Nov 21 2012, 10:00 PM) *

If one has a need to put an incorrect Porsche crest on the 914, the 944 silver crests .[/i]



944 had the same gold crest as every other Porsche. All the silver crests you see are aftermarket. If you know otherwise I'd love to see the proof. confused24.gif
Eric_Shea
QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Nov 21 2012, 10:23 PM) *

No the 914S didn't have a badge because it was never sold that way. There were ads for it but what they ended up doing was just calling it the 2.0.


No way!!! ohmy.gif
Pat Garvey
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Nov 22 2012, 01:14 PM) *

QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Nov 21 2012, 10:23 PM) *

No the 914S didn't have a badge because it was never sold that way. There were ads for it but what they ended up doing was just calling it the 2.0.


No way!!! ohmy.gif

WAY!!!! chair.gif
mepstein
I'm waiting on the multi page 914-S photo documentary. You know he's going to go there...
MDG
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 22 2012, 07:40 PM) *

I'm waiting on the multi page 914-S photo documentary. You know he's going to go there...


Mark, there is a very comprehensive thread on that here.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=107851





mellow.gif

you're welcome.
Jonathan Livesay
QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Nov 21 2012, 06:03 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 20 2012, 04:14 PM) *

QUOTE(Tom_T @ Nov 20 2012, 01:02 PM) *
the hood badge in & of itself is a "prototype feature" not used on any production cars initially sold to the public.

I don't agree with your use of the word "prototype". IMHO, you're using it in a much too general context.

There were only very few real 914 prototype cars and none of them should be part of this discussion.
Again, the car pictured on the owners manual is *not* a prototype.

There are plenty of production cars with hood badges to talk about (even if dealer installed).

I find it irritating that you need to refer to anything remotely deviating from production as "prototype".
IMHO, that dilutes the very meaning of that word.

popcorn[1].gif

Well Andy, we've found common ground!

Crest shouldn't be there - no matter placement.

It's bogus.

Anyone ever see a prancing horse on a 246 Dino? That would be bogus too.

Prototypes are just that - prototyypes. Engineers playing with NON-PRODUCTION cars.

"We don't need no stinking badges..."

IPB Image
tumamilhem
Oh wow! What a gorgeous car! I love old Ferraris!
tumamilhem
Vintage Porsche key chain shields. And one new one.
tumamilhem
Anybody know how to clean/shine up the metal on these old badges without discoloring/removing the enamel paint? This one's actually duller than appears in the picture (due to higher exposure of picture).

Period-correct orange and black bar shield for early 1973 (or) early 1974 and prior Porsches. This one came off of a 1968 911E.

Click to view attachment

scotty b
loose knit buffing wheel on a bench grinder. Hold on tight
tumamilhem
What's a loose knit buffing wheel?
scotty b
QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Dec 2 2012, 01:30 PM) *

What's a loose knit buffing wheel?



http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-D3190-8-In...5571&sr=1-3
mrgreenjeans
And with this refreshment on the subject :


my teener commits to remain uncommitted

Helmut Mello stands proudly naked unsure.gif
Pat Garvey
QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Dec 2 2012, 10:24 AM) *

Anybody know how to clean/shine up the metal on these old badges without discoloring/removing the enamel paint? This one's actually duller than appears in the picture (due to higher exposure of picture).

Period-correct orange and black bar shield for early 1973 (or) early 1974 and prior Porsches. This one came off of a 1968 911E.

Click to view attachment

A product called Simichrome - check the local bike shop."Liitle dab willl do ya", using a cotton diaper or (my preference) a surgical sponge, Tiny pea-sized drop on the rag, light pressure until the rag becomes dirty looking, Another soft cotton cloth to remove residue & buff. Won't harm the cloissone at all.

Now, keep it for the tail dragger that you WILL eventually own!

BTDT
Pat
scallyk9
QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Dec 5 2012, 05:33 PM) *

QUOTE(tumamilhem @ Dec 2 2012, 10:24 AM) *

Anybody know how to clean/shine up the metal on these old badges without discoloring/removing the enamel paint? This one's actually duller than appears in the picture (due to higher exposure of picture).

Period-correct orange and black bar shield for early 1973 (or) early 1974 and prior Porsches. This one came off of a 1968 911E.

Click to view attachment

A product called Simichrome - check the local bike shop."Liitle dab willl do ya", using a cotton diaper or (my preference) a surgical sponge, Tiny pea-sized drop on the rag, light pressure until the rag becomes dirty looking, Another soft cotton cloth to remove residue & buff. Won't harm the cloissone at all.

Now, keep it for the tail dragger that you WILL eventually own!

BTDT
Pat


Simichrome is great but do use as suggested. Do not use with paper towels and much better to apply several times with minimal pressure. Q-Tips are great for this. My orange bar vintage badge looked awful until I realized that most of the "damage" was old wax...many Q-Tips were used.

I started using this stuff decades ago when I had motorcycles and I recently purchased new tubes on eBay. Amazon is a source also.
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