Hey gang, just ordered a COA for Das Frog. Seen in some other posts that these can be rather inaccurate and incomplete. Just got a phone message from the women whom is working on it, saying they are checking into a "490" option code. Electric antenna? Car was purchased with no radio. Would the dealership take that out if the client didn't want a radio and install a standard antenna? What else should I ask for on the COA when I call her back? Trans #, Engine #, ? And, is there a way to distinguish which alloy wheels came with the car; fuchs or mahle? John (orginal owner), had them swapped out for steelies.

Thanks, Tod

M490 is the electric antenna.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

You'll get the engine # on the COA, but probably not the trans. Sometimes you can provide the trans # and if it matches the # on their Kardex, then then they might indicate it on the COA, its happened in the past.

If you are talking to Krinstina Lucas, she has replaced Kristen Richford...she seems equally as nice and very helpful.

If the options indicate 'pressure cast' alloys, that would be the Fuchs. Plain cast wheels would be Mahles for a '74.

Thanks Jeff. Yes, the women's name is Kristina. She seems very pleasant judging by the message she left. Said she was inquiring with Germany about the option code/s. I'll touch base with her tomorrow. Kudos on your site again. Great resource of info you compiled.

COA's are usually Worthless as they are mostly Incorrect & the Girls at PCNA are clueless when it comes to our cars.

I have never Seen a Power Antenna! & if your car didn't come with a Factory Radio (very few did) it didn't come with any antenna - Dealers Installed them.

Jeff, "Pressure Cast" equals Fuchs? They are Forged

Just got off the phone with Kristina. Based on the information she has from their database, enigine number checked out, no record of the trans number but she is going to add it on, correct paint code Ravenna green M5 with brown leatherette, rear defrost, USA equiptment, chrome bumpers, forged wheels code 485, and the 490 code which she is having Germany checking into. No mention of the center console, center seat, of fog lights on the Kardex. Would that of come packaged with the chrome bumpers? Regarding the electric antenna, the car has a non electric Hirshman on it that's been Zeibarted by the dealership prior to delivery. Thanks for the help guys.

I think the 490 gets them confused when their Database changed & they mixed 944 & 914 Numbers up. Pretty sure 490 relates to the Center Cushion.

And the car would not have been Ziebarted

Ah ok T.C., that's good to know. She mentioned there was no letter prefix on the 490 option, so we'll see what they come up with. The Ziebart crap was a mess. If I recall right, I think John said that he had them put that on. So I guess the car originally came with Fuchs. He couldn't remember which set was on the car when he purchased it. This COA is worth it to me in that regard. Clairifies the missing pieces to the puzzle.

M490 is the mechanic antenna

see the 1974 price list (from Germany)

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

translation:
antenna mechanic on the left side with suppressor kit
128 DM (German Mark) - for the 1.8 as well as the 2.0
not available for all radios


and as the text above says:
"all radios include the suppressor kit, speakers and mechanic antenna on the left side"

so it's definitely clear, that you could order the antenna kit M490 without ordering a factory radio

btw - the center seat cusion was 570

Very cool Wofgang. Thanks. Jeff's site was showing the antenna as electric. Mechanical would certianly make more sence. So it's safe to say this antenna was installed at the factory and not the dealership?

I can't say if this is an evidence ... but I'd say it's a pretty good sign

if you have a mechanic antenna on the left side and your COA says 490 - I'd say bingo !

Works for me.

Cool...thanks Wolfgang. I corrected the webpage...

Pressure cast = forged. Forging is casting under pressure. Fuchs were the only forged 914 wheels.

The Main Reason I critize the COA is the last 2 for me were Incorrect - My 74 Carrera RS didn't come back as a Carrera, even though the Numbers were correct. One of my -6s didn't state the Correct Interior & even when I provide proof they wouldn't correct it. Fortunately they offered a Money Back Guarentee, so I made a Copy & got my money back



I thought that Steve Gaglione disproved this ( but my memory escapes me)

Jeff, that explanation confuses me because it seems contrary to the window stickers that you have on your site.
Are the Mahle wheels used on the 914 LE cars forged or cast?

The early, loaded 1973 914 2-liters, which all should have come
with Fuchs all say "FORGED ALLOY WHEELS"
Click to view attachment

The 1974 Limited Editions, which should have come
with Mahles, all say "PRESSURE CAST ALLOY WHEELS"
Click to view attachment

Totally Incorrect!

Tod, send her pix of both the engine & transaxle case #'s & they may put both on your COA. Also check the other color & equipment codes vs. actual on the car. It took me 3 tries & a call to the Customer Care GM to get them to correct their erroneous interior color to Beige using Jeff's pix of dealer color code docs. Froggy & mine have the same code.

It's beyond me why somebody would by a fully equipped 914-2.0 & opt off the Fuchs 2L wheels for steelies!!??

I can understand if they preferred ta straight-up trade for the Pedrini's or Mahle Baby-Gasburners .... but steelies!!??

.

Dave, that 73 window sticker is for VIN...15228, out of some 27,660 in 73, so I'm guessing it's about Jan-Mar 73 build date.

In deference to TC who worked at dealerships in the `70's IIRC, & to Jeff's unparalleled research - I can't say if they meant Fuchs by the "pressure cast" nomenclature, because we're talking about translation for German to English, and then variances by whomever did the Munroney sticker at the POE - of which there were always wide variations of wording, terms & even errors back in the day (they're much more consistent & accurate today on new cars).

But Yes, they did offer the Fuchs 2L wheels painted with the centers in orange, yellow & ?? as an option for any 914, including 74 LE's. In fact on Jeff's LE website he shows the Japan market LE - all of which were equipped with Fuchs 2L painted in the centers.

There was also a member on here who posted a pic of the day they took delivery of a 914 mounting Fuchs 2L's with the painted centers, & IIRC it was a 74 2.0 non-LE car.

Lastly, I have a set of the orange center Fuchs 2L wheels which I'd bought off a guy with a 75 or 76 which had them on from the factory, which I'd planned on stripping & refinishing by Al Reid for my 2L's resto. But I picked up SoCalAndy's set of already refinished ones by Al Reid, & they're now surplus to me.

So I'll just sell those to somebody who want the Signal Orange & will restore them as such. IIRC I posted pix of them on the O&H wheels & tires thread as an FYI on type.

BTW - one way to tell the factory painted ones, is that they used to proper aluminum yellow-green zinc-chromate primer, the same stuff as used on aluminum aircraft skins & parts, under the the color coat paint.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment



The ones I have, a DAPPO had painted them over in silver, then the PO/seller cleaned the silver off of 4 of them ...

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Tom, you can go to Jeff's Can Am registry page and click on any of the "WS" links. They all say the same thing: "PRESSURE CAST ALLOY WHEELS."

Jeff Bowlsby's Can Am Registry

Steve Gaglione's Sahara Beige 914 is one of the best documented cars out there. We know his car came with Fuchs, and the window sticker reflects this:
Click to view attachment

I checked the '74 model year window stickers to see if the use of FORGED ALLOY WHEELS was dropped, but here's a '74 with the terminology still in use:
Click to view attachment

Like I said Dave, I don't know which & didn't want to get between them on forged vs. pressure cast, but did want to answer your question about whether the ever painted the Fuchs in LE style. IIRC you could special order them too in body color match of any color, but not positive on that.

Unfortunately I never got the window sticker & other dealer docs from the original buyer/seller of mine back in 12/75 - not even the center console/gauges, foglights/grills/switch & Fuchs wheels, owners manual & service records were there with the car, and it was only 3 years old when I bought it.

Tod - here's the 1st, 2nd & 3rd latest corrected COAs on mine FYI, in the pix below (#31 was Beige & #11 was Black).

The problem with the "fully loaded" AG+PG optioned early "914S" marketed models, was that PCNA won't list the "included options" on any of these "special equipment/package models" on the COAs. Same for LE's, 911 RS's, etc. - so you're stuck with verifying what was included on them yourself, which is what I had to do in my research on what & how to properly restore my early`73 914-2.0/"914S" - before spending loads of cash to replace the missing items noted above & restore them.

#1 - no 2.0 designation - PCNA demanded pic of engine case # to match to Kardex before adding it!
Click to view attachment

.

#2 - added 2.0, but PCNA manager refused to correct the interior color to Beige!
Click to view attachment

.


#3 - corrected interior color, but only after contacting PCNA's GM Customer Service, & no other "included options" added!
Click to view attachment
.

Friggin' PITA!!

Poor Pat Garvey is still trying to get PCNA to correct what they're supposedly calling "Norwegian Equipment" on his 72 914/4, whatever that is.....??

Click to view attachment

TC...you are technically right...thanks for busting my chops right before a long holiday... An explanation...

The window stickers are accurate, but the use of the word 'pressure' is confusing because pressure is used in both the forging and casting processes.

The 2.0L Fuchs are the only factory supplied 914/4 forged alloy wheel. As I understand it, forging aluminum involves molding the aluminum alloy using great pressures (hence the confusion), with or without heat, into the desired molds. Forging alters the grain stucture of the alloy to be finer and of greater unit strength than non-forged alloys.

From here: http://www.aluminum.org/Content/Navigation...ngs/default.htm

'Pressure cast' 914 wheels are the Pedrinnis and Mahles. Again as I understand it, the process is more properly called 'die casting' where molten aluminum alloy is injected into molds under pressure. Die cast alloys are not as strong as forged alloys and the grain structure is not as dense.

From here:
http://www.aluminum.org/Content_bk100511/C..._Things_to1.htm

I know we are getting off track, but

Forging Aluminum has nothing to do with Casting. Casting means that Hot Aluminum is poured into a Cast. Forging is Aluminum that is put into a Die and then Pressed under many Tons of Force into the shape desired


Click to view attachment

Sorry I double Posted

Often wondered what the process was. Good info.

Tom, I actually never asked that question, but thanks anyway for the info on the colored Fuchs. I've seen pictures of the Japanese SL models on Jeff's Can Am site but that's about it.

Cool wheels you have there. You say they're Signal Orange? They look like they're Phoenix Red ....

Yes, you're right Dave IIRC - Phoenix Red, which is a Red-Orange by the non-marketing name, & not sure if mine are painted the correct Cremescicle Orange/Red-Orange or the 75-76 MY equivalent (?Nepal Orange or special order orange/red-orange?), since they were OE color matched to a 75-76 2.0 which I bought them from, but I can't track it down now.

I guess the question wasn't by you - but the question comes up implicitly with Tod's reply at post #5 where he referenced "forged allow wheels" option code "M485" info on his COA, & whether the Fuchs 2L's were ever painted seemed like a good clarification in any case, to this wheels question in general, & hopefully helps Tod in his faithful to original resto of Froggy!

Porsche just verified the antenna with suppressor kit for the 490 code. Should have the COA in 3 weeks. Thanks for the assistance. I'll post a picture of it when it comes in.

I've been saying for a long time that Porsche did supply some 914s with the antenna/suppressor & speakers in "radio ready form" - and that not all antennas were dealer installed. Good deal Tod!

Hope you're all moved & settled in.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

It came in! Very nice job on it. The antenna option was correct. Should the sail vinyl, fog lights and center console be listed under a package, or is that part of the chrome bumpers option? Car does not have sway bars. Also, production end date, is that indicated on the vin sticker? Should the options listed on the COA have the code prefix? I'd like to get as much of the information onto the COA as possible. Thanks for the assistance.

Click to view attachment

Production Date will be on your Compliance Sticker in the DS Door Jam

No the Options on a CoA do not get Code Numbers

I've never seen Sail Vinyl, Center Console or Fog Lights on a CoA

The Info on your CoA is all you are going to get - just be glad that it is remotely correct

Well, the production MONTH & year on the VIN sticker may or may not be the actual Chassis No. production date.

Another member's Orange 2L was built a week before mine in Aug. 72, but had a 9/72 VIN sticker date, while mine is 8/72.

Decode your chassis no. on the Karmann plate using an online calendar for the year of mfgr (YoM) noted on the VIN sticker as follows:

Chassis No.: WWD95XX (or...96XX)*

WW = week of year (count even one day as week #1)
D = day of work week (1-5 = M-F)
.... & translate week & day w/ YoM to a full production date

95 = Karmann Plant & * 96 = 95 + 100 added to below...

XX = # of 914s completed/stamped that date (higher # is later in day)
* 96 = 100 + XX = 1XX

COA's are notoriously incomplete & incorrect Tod, so lacking a dealer invoice &/or window sticker, it may be impossible to add the sail/rollbar vinyle, foglights & any other unlisted option items to the COA.

However, at some Parades & other events where PCNA brings their troops armed with their digital microfilm/fische files on computer to the events, you may be able to look at the actual Kardex & jot down the option codes & notations (in German) & get them translated then added to your COA that way (should be at no cost to correct a COA). You might even sneak a pic of it when they're not looking, but they're protective of the Kardexes now due to the fact that it includes the key code and origina/following owner info which is a privacy issue.

As for your interior code #21 - it should read Brown Leatherette with Basketweave (inserts), as per this chart I used to get mine corrected from their erroneous "#31 Beige..." - which was their error....

Click to view attachment
^--- note #21 in bottom left set of English codes, this is from Jeff's website too BTW

You can also pull the option codes off of Jeff Bowlsby's website.

I don't think Froggy was an Appearance Group (AG) 914 - unless it also has the center console, but the chrome bumpers did become a separate option for additional cost over-&-above the AG in the 74 MY so Porsche could ding you 2x for what had been included in the AG for 914/4's in 70-73 MYs.

So the separate chrome bumper option makes sense on Froggy.

FYI - the 74 MY AG would've included Leatherette covered steering wheel & shift boot, loop pile carpet, center console & 3 gauges, foglights/grills & dash switch, dual horns, sail/rollbar vinyl - so if all of that is there, you could look up the code on Jeff's website & take pix of them all on Froggy, then send that into PCNA COA (again!) to ask them to recheck their Kardex & add it to the revised COA.

All I have to say is - it's a good thing that Porsche is not generally as sloppy with the car building, as PCNA is with their crappy COA work, which is usually "neither fast, nor slow - but usually half-fast!" - especially on the older cars without a supplied window sticker!

PS - HEY - cool, they actually have your transaxle number! ...very rare that they have it at all.

PSS - Only the models which included certain or all option groups &/or special options as part of that model's "package" won't include listing those specific options. So a 914-6 70-72 MYs, the 73 early/mid MY 914-2.0/"914S" & 74 LEs won't specifically list their individual options always included with it for the basic price new (911 RS is another non-914 example). I disagree with this approach, because IMHO the manufacturer should be confirming & certifying the inclusion of options on ALL of their models - whether sold at extra cost or included in the upgraded model's base price - for a "Certificate [manufacturer certification] of Authenticity [of all model items and options]".

I'll inquire about the apperance group option, being it has all the goodies that go with it. I asked them to add the transaxle number in, being it's never been out of the car.

Tod, see the attached equipment packages for 1974.

In addition to that, mine also has the center tray w/hinged arm rest. Only thing it's missing is F&R stabilizer bars, factory undercoating, and factory radio from what I can tell. Looking at the COAs listed on Jeff's site, the information seems to be spartan at best. Wondering if the Kardexs are missing the information, or it's just not getting put onto the COAs. .

It's a little of both Tod.

I forgot to include the center tray/cushion on my list - it's on all 73-76 AGs AFAIK.

Performance Group (PG - Sport Group? RoW & @ Jeff's options page) would've been the F&R sway bars + Fuchs 2L wheels (Mahle 4-lug on LEs or as an alt option at no cost with PG).

There was no PG in 1974...items not in the AG were individually priced options.

2 "Laugh In" TV show lines come to mind.....

"Wery Interesting!"

&

"Sock it to [Ya]!"

Thx Jeff

Careful...I am old enough to remember that show, and the Gong show... But just barely.

That's because it's not a build date ...

The door jamb sticker is US only and it's for importing the car into the US.
The US sticker has nothing to do with the actual build of the car.

My best guess is that it is the month the car was either loaded onto the container ship or expected to arrive in the US.

Understood Andy. My point was that the Chassis No. is the closest thing to a build date - not the VIN sticker's date.

My case in point example was John's "Orangina" having a later sticker date but built the week or so before mine - so mine was probably shipped out earlier, even though having the chassis no. stamped later than Johns' former 914 - while his was held back long enough to get into the 9/72 stickers.

What makes it even more interesting is that my chassis no. date is 8/31/72 with an 8/72 VIN sticker date - same day!
.... world's fastest 914 build or what!

PS - that's why my prior post in its entirety & even the snippette above makes the clear distinction between a "VIN sticker date" & the chassis number derived "build date" - how else would one know which week a 914 was built!!??

Jeff - I actually remember it clearly .... argh!
.... but then IIRC I have a year or toe on you!