Full Version: Future of electric driving
I'm curious about the result.
Watts vs Horsepower
Can you imagine to drive an electric vehicle, or convert your 914 to it ?
Or do you need the sound of the aircooled combustion engine ?
Can you imagine to drive an electric vehicle, or convert your 914 to it ?
Or do you need the sound of the aircooled combustion engine ?
Personally I like the sound of a turbo blow off valve relieving pressure while making a 12k RPM shift and feeling the ass end of the car get squirly when it grabs the next gear...
but that's just me.
Since we're basically contemplating theoretical applications, if I were to do an EV 914 I'd go with an array of 4 electric motors. One per wheel, inboard, and tachometer per each. Not sure if I'd go brushed or brushless, that's still up in the air.
I'd go with a handful of capacitors, maybe 5 farad cap for each wheel.... for acceleration and surges
for the steady stream of power, I'd go withe one of the newly discovered (to me) subie boxer diesel engines attached to a generator unit instead of a transaxle.
Or something along those lines. I haven't given it too much thought lately. :-)
but that's just me.
Since we're basically contemplating theoretical applications, if I were to do an EV 914 I'd go with an array of 4 electric motors. One per wheel, inboard, and tachometer per each. Not sure if I'd go brushed or brushless, that's still up in the air.
I'd go with a handful of capacitors, maybe 5 farad cap for each wheel.... for acceleration and surges
for the steady stream of power, I'd go withe one of the newly discovered (to me) subie boxer diesel engines attached to a generator unit instead of a transaxle.
Or something along those lines. I haven't given it too much thought lately. :-)
I've often wondered, if my 2.0 ever bites the dust (the motor, not the car), if I could do an EV conversion. I'd be happy with 2 in-wheel motors, around 75hp each and load up the engine bay and fuel tank area with enough batteries for ~100mi range.
Recently saw a Tesla Model S in person. Were money no object, that would be in my driveway (once I reached the top of the waitlist, anyway). One of very few cars for which I'd be willing to get rid of both my DD and the 914.
Recently saw a Tesla Model S in person. Were money no object, that would be in my driveway (once I reached the top of the waitlist, anyway). One of very few cars for which I'd be willing to get rid of both my DD and the 914.
Unless mandated by law with a gun to my head, I'll NEVER have an EV anything. I like to go for d-r-i-v-e-s that are longer than 100 miles or even 200 for that matter.
Just making a run up to artist point on Mt Baker in the late summer is about a 250 mile round trip. . . Totally impossible for ANY EV and I'm local. Besides, I don't know if I would like hearing only the wind, trees, birds and other natural stuff as I drive. Automotive sound pollution can be therapeutic to a man's soul.
Just making a run up to artist point on Mt Baker in the late summer is about a 250 mile round trip. . . Totally impossible for ANY EV and I'm local. Besides, I don't know if I would like hearing only the wind, trees, birds and other natural stuff as I drive. Automotive sound pollution can be therapeutic to a man's soul.
QUOTE(aircooledtechguy @ Jan 2 2013, 06:03 PM) 
Unless mandated by law with a gun to my head, I'll NEVER have an EV Automotive sound pollution can be therapeutic to a man's soul.
EVs are awesome
I want a Tesla
or a 914 with a DC motor combo for 100% torque values at "go!"
Peak oil is over, the dinosaur juice is running out, and making it from tar or shale gas is both toxic and inefficient. It's profitable because we give away extraction rights for pennies and then provide billions in govt subsidies. I envy the Euro's fast trains - a road trip is a train trip with stops for walking and bicycling. Fast and efficient.
One of Dr F Porsche's first cars designed and built was a gas/electric hybrid. There were EVs in the 1890s, maybe more designs then than 1990s.
Actually, what I want is the new Porsche 918 Spyder
IN USA, we will continue to burn, it's our addiction
I want a Tesla
or a 914 with a DC motor combo for 100% torque values at "go!"
Peak oil is over, the dinosaur juice is running out, and making it from tar or shale gas is both toxic and inefficient. It's profitable because we give away extraction rights for pennies and then provide billions in govt subsidies. I envy the Euro's fast trains - a road trip is a train trip with stops for walking and bicycling. Fast and efficient.
One of Dr F Porsche's first cars designed and built was a gas/electric hybrid. There were EVs in the 1890s, maybe more designs then than 1990s.
Actually, what I want is the new Porsche 918 Spyder
IN USA, we will continue to burn, it's our addiction
i'm genuinely surprised that EVs have not been designed/manufactured like locomotive. Electric drive with a diesel generator. A small 2 cylinder turbocharged diesel engine acting as a generator for the electric motors. Small on weight, super efficient fuel consumption, and as long as the batteries are charged, a nice driving car from electric motors.
The technology is there..just needs to be put together in an automobile package.
The technology is there..just needs to be put together in an automobile package.
QUOTE('73-914kid @ Jan 2 2013, 09:44 PM)
i'm genuinely surprised that EVs have not been designed/manufactured like locomotive. Electric drive with a diesel generator. A small 2 cylinder turbocharged diesel engine acting as a generator for the electric motors. Small on weight, super efficient fuel consumption, and as long as the batteries are charged, a nice driving car from electric motors.
The technology is there..just needs to be put together in an automobile package.
EV's with range extender working like this...... it's the first step.
My friends and I have been messing with Diesel-electric for a long time. One electrical engineer, one marine engineer from large container vessels, and the IT guy (me).
Quite some time back we tried all this with an old Rabbit Diesel. We had two problems: the Diesel and electric motor weigh quite a lot. Now add a ton of batteries. Power to weight is all wrong even with a tiny little Rabbit. The other issue is the power curve. A gas motor can have power at a large range of RPMs, but the Diesel has a much lower range. Our inital plan was just to set the Diesel at a fixed rpm like an industrial motor which would be set at it's most efficient speed. But this isn't enough to charge the batteries effectively. If you crank up the speed of the motor, you might as well run on Diesel power all the time and forget using electrical. Plus, you have the psychological effect of hearing the motor idle at all speeds.
We still think it's possible. But lightweight, crazy efficient motors are hard to come by and batteries are still expensive (although only 1/3 of what we shelled out a few years ago). Always hampered with work schedules, lousy weather, etc. We eventually found a pal who had lots of money to play with so we made up a nice VW Fastback as a full electric. Then he installed a complete solar array on this roof to charge it. Free fuel forever. It's a nice setup, but even with the tax incentives it cost a load of bread to capitalize. But it will pay for itself in in five years, and that was three years ago.
The eighty mile range is great for him because he commutes locally only, but I want a longer range for myself.
So we continue to sit around the table on cold winter nights and ponder more about a Diesel-electric vehicle.
The whole project convinced me to enter an electrical engineering program that specializes in solar and wind generation. Night school is slow going, but I hope one day it will really help projects like this one.
Quite some time back we tried all this with an old Rabbit Diesel. We had two problems: the Diesel and electric motor weigh quite a lot. Now add a ton of batteries. Power to weight is all wrong even with a tiny little Rabbit. The other issue is the power curve. A gas motor can have power at a large range of RPMs, but the Diesel has a much lower range. Our inital plan was just to set the Diesel at a fixed rpm like an industrial motor which would be set at it's most efficient speed. But this isn't enough to charge the batteries effectively. If you crank up the speed of the motor, you might as well run on Diesel power all the time and forget using electrical. Plus, you have the psychological effect of hearing the motor idle at all speeds.
We still think it's possible. But lightweight, crazy efficient motors are hard to come by and batteries are still expensive (although only 1/3 of what we shelled out a few years ago). Always hampered with work schedules, lousy weather, etc. We eventually found a pal who had lots of money to play with so we made up a nice VW Fastback as a full electric. Then he installed a complete solar array on this roof to charge it. Free fuel forever. It's a nice setup, but even with the tax incentives it cost a load of bread to capitalize. But it will pay for itself in in five years, and that was three years ago.
The eighty mile range is great for him because he commutes locally only, but I want a longer range for myself.
So we continue to sit around the table on cold winter nights and ponder more about a Diesel-electric vehicle.
The whole project convinced me to enter an electrical engineering program that specializes in solar and wind generation. Night school is slow going, but I hope one day it will really help projects like this one.
QUOTE('73-914kid @ Jan 2 2013, 12:44 PM)
i'm genuinely surprised that EVs have not been designed/manufactured like locomotive. Electric drive with a diesel generator. A small 2 cylinder turbocharged diesel engine acting as a generator for the electric motors. Small on weight, super efficient fuel consumption, and as long as the batteries are charged, a nice driving car from electric motors.
The technology is there..just needs to be put together in an automobile package.
..When are you going to start.. 
btw saw this in Pomona.lolClick to view attachment
We have a bunch of those Fisker Karmas here in Tampa Bay. 
Most rediculous thing I've ever seen. Example of how words like "hybrid" have become selling points and totally ignore the point of buying a hybrid in the first place, which is ostensibly efficiency. Same thing with all the Lexus "hybrids," most of which only gain the buyer one MPG over the base model.
Its sad that more people can't stomach driving an electric car. The reality is most of us don't drive more than 25-50 miles a day during the week. If I had the money I would have an EV for my daily commute and my 914 for the weekends if I really needed to drive more than 100 miles.
Most rediculous thing I've ever seen. Example of how words like "hybrid" have become selling points and totally ignore the point of buying a hybrid in the first place, which is ostensibly efficiency. Same thing with all the Lexus "hybrids," most of which only gain the buyer one MPG over the base model.Its sad that more people can't stomach driving an electric car. The reality is most of us don't drive more than 25-50 miles a day during the week. If I had the money I would have an EV for my daily commute and my 914 for the weekends if I really needed to drive more than 100 miles.
A very dim future unless there is a breakthrough in battery technology.
Gasoline has approximately 50 times the energy density of the best battery today measured by weight. So this means to get the same amount of energy from state-of-the-art battery technology as 20 gallons of gasoline the weight works out like this:
Gasoline is about 6.4 lbs/gal, so 20 gallons is 128 lbs plus about 20 lbs for the tank totaling about 150 lbs.
Lithium-ion batteries with the same amount of energy as the gasoline will weigh about 750 lbs plus packaging.
The heavier vehicle will wear out tires and brakes faster, work suspensions harder, increased volume of the battery packs will decrease cargo capacity.
And at the end of it all, you still have to generate electricity to charge the batteries. How do you suppose that we will generate the electricity - oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear, wind, solar. Mostly it just moves the pollution from one source to another.
Gasoline has approximately 50 times the energy density of the best battery today measured by weight. So this means to get the same amount of energy from state-of-the-art battery technology as 20 gallons of gasoline the weight works out like this:
Gasoline is about 6.4 lbs/gal, so 20 gallons is 128 lbs plus about 20 lbs for the tank totaling about 150 lbs.
Lithium-ion batteries with the same amount of energy as the gasoline will weigh about 750 lbs plus packaging.
The heavier vehicle will wear out tires and brakes faster, work suspensions harder, increased volume of the battery packs will decrease cargo capacity.
And at the end of it all, you still have to generate electricity to charge the batteries. How do you suppose that we will generate the electricity - oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear, wind, solar. Mostly it just moves the pollution from one source to another.
QUOTE(slivel @ Jan 2 2013, 02:04 PM)
A very dim future unless there is a breakthrough in battery technology.
Gasoline has approximately 50 times the energy density of the best battery today measured by weight. So this means to get the same amount of energy from state-of-the-art battery technology as 20 gallons of gasoline the weight works out like this:
Gasoline is about 6.4 lbs/gal, so 20 gallons is 128 lbs plus about 20 lbs for the tank totaling about 150 lbs.
Lithium-ion batteries with the same amount of energy as the gasoline will weigh about 750 lbs plus packaging.
The heavier vehicle will wear out tires and brakes faster, work suspensions harder, increased volume of the battery packs will decrease cargo capacity.
And at the end of it all, you still have to generate electricity to charge the batteries. How do you suppose that we will generate the electricity - oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear, wind, solar. Mostly it just moves the pollution from one source to another.
Sorry the math was wrong - instead of 750 lbs for the equivalent battery weight, it should have been closer to 7500 lbs.
Here in germany a lot of money is invested in green tecnologies, cause it's right, if the energy for electric driving comes from a nuclear power plant, cole or gas, it doesn't make sense.
I agree, the battery problem, must be dissolved first, it will be a question of time.
I agree, the battery problem, must be dissolved first, it will be a question of time.
Why does everyone want to schlep batteries around? If you have a small motor (bio diesel – water ever) to generate electricity, why not just run the car with that? Locomotives don’t carry batteries around.
Bio Diesel is a trapp, needs too much arable land, ..... no corn, but the tank full of bio Diesel goes in the wrong direction.
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