I've been doing a little research for a daily driver toyota....
thinking about changing oil brands and seeing what is out there for a flat tappet cam that is cheaper than Royal purple, and more available than brad penn

anyways... lots and lots of guys post about using VR1 lately

I found some valvolene materials that may be a typo
someone independently tested the 2 valvolene racing oils, and the street legal version (found at the flaps)

the tests show 800ppm zddp on the street legal oil
and 1300ppm on the two not street legal oils.

yet the valolene litterature claims 1300ppm on all of their grey bottled oils.

I would like to tell everyone to check the API starburst on the bottle
if your flaps, VR-1 is SM rated or street legal I am of the belief that you are NOT getting the zddp you need for our engines...

Thanks for the info. Any idea what the rating on the label is on the 1300ppm ones?

"off road use only"

I don't believe they would have API certification
but I'm told they are usually only available special order, so I haven't been able to find an actual bottle of the off road racing ones to look at the label of.

what is tough is that all of the oils still contain some zddp
its just that in order to meet API certification, the zddp levels are so low that they don't protect our engines (or any flat tappet engines)

so the marketing side of things still allows the label to say they have zinc... it just doesn't spell out how much

I didn't know there was a difference in vr1 but I have been using vr1 50wt and 30wt in all my aircooled motorcyles and 914 for the last 15 years and have no issues including my 48 indian which I ride a lot and pretty good distnaces. fwiw

Here's what Valvoline has posted on their site:

http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/

It's not entirely clear to me, but I think they're talking about the Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil and the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil. The date at the bottom of the page appears to be 3 JAN 13, so it appears to be pretty current. I would probably be more confident about what they're saying if they hadn't started out with:

"Many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in SM motor oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new motor oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible. This has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern motor oil is not adequate to protect older engines."

Used VR-1 back in the day, before that I used Rotella (up until CL-4 or so). Fortunately, just found Brad-Penn locally . . . .

Hope this helps.

Steve A-

there website looks positive
the scary thing that I found was someone had run independent tests of the VR1 and their test showed low zddp numbers, even though valvolene advertised differently....

I know one test doesn't prove everything
I know the manufacture is claiming higher numbers
perhaps it was a bad batch, or improper test?
I don't trust them at this point and will just not use VR1 street legal oil

again if it has an API SM rating I wouldn't trust it.

injunmort, do you have a bottle in your garage of what you use? I'm curious what the API starburst might be on it?

The Kendall GT1 High Performance with Zinc that I use, has an API-SN Rating

I do and will come back with it.

api service sm, 50 wt I run in 914 in product description on bottle says ashless anti wear and zdcp provide ultimate wear protection

Do you have a link to this test that has you scared?

EDIT

Here is a test (obviously not the one that has you concerned) that gives VR-1 conventional motor oil a high rating. Maybe it'll calm your fears:

dead link http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30483

new link https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20...r-test-ranking/

according to test cited above, vr1 performed better than brad penn. I just know from experience that vr1 is a good product that works well in my air cooled applications. reasonable priced, available at local carquest and does what its supposed.to. I have never used brad penn because it is not cheap, not available close by and with the frequency that I change my oil certainly not economical. fwiw.

I thought the new SN rating in 2011 is the bad one. The zinc content changed for emission purposes for the cats?

It still has zinc but lower quantities.... at least that is what I thought.

Maybe someone should clarify

I didn't save the link
I was searching on corvette forum
I'm still scared off from the SM coded oils.
they passed those API guidelines and tests by having catalylitic pollutants pulled out. I feel more comfortable with the Not street legal version

maybe I just need to buy more brad penn for my toyota

brant

That last is interesting reading.
I have a roughly 10,000 mile motor where 3 of the lifters are breaking down using only Brad Penn 20w50 changed every 2000 miles. I don't know if its cam or bad lifters but came from a reputable source.

If you're talking about this thread from 2007, it was clearly just 540RAT speculating. At that point in time he hadn't done any formal tests. He saw some numbers from other Valvoline street oils and simply came to the conclusion that VR-1 had to be in this same ZDDP range and not what the manufacturer claimed.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-pe...ght-it-was.html

To further confuse the issue:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/


I stopped in to the FLAPS today and looked at the VR1 bottle that I've used for a couple of years, and there's no mention of ZDDP on the bottle. So..where do you buy VR1 Race Oil and is it worth the extra cash I'm sure it costs?

Also,,,with search you'll find multiple threads on oil analysis by World members.

This is what I buy at my local FLAPS.

Note is says High Zinc (no specific amount advertised) and not for extended use with cats. No API label but does say it exceeds API SG/CD.

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I read that one from 2007 also
but I found a more recent thread.

I like that the pictured valvolene from somd914 has no API starburst on it.
is it a recently purchased bottle?

odd that injunmorts bottles have the API starburst rating and yours don't
makes me feel more comfortable that it doesn't have sm certification

it looks like the same guy may have been the author of both the speedtalk post and the corvette post... at least they use the same web name if not the same person.

Yep, this bottle was bought a few months ago at Advance Auto Parts, runs about $6 and some change around here in southern Maryland.

$5 ~ $6 per qt. was about what I paid the last time I bought a case Brad Penn 20/50, but I don't remember what the price for a barrel of crude was going for at the time. It may be more today

At least around here most oil is running $6 and change. I don't have a local vendor for Brad Penn, so buying on line with shipping is pushing around $8/qt. Not a huge difference, just a bit inconvenient.

I think it really boils down to who do you believe? Even for modern engines there is much debate between synthetics and fossil - I've seen several well documented, scientific-based studies that support both schools of thought in this debate.

The product info sheets on the stree legal versions are pretty specific 14/13 ppm zinc phos, on the conventional. For the synthetic you need to go 20/50 to get to the 13ppm level. I've used it for 10 years in numerous huge spring pressure engines no problems. Some guys who used the overpriced specialty oils like to knock it to make them feel better about paying $10+ a bottle for the same thing.

the bottle you show is 20/50. I use strait 50wt in my 914 and says on bottle zdcp additive. maybe different on strait weight oil vs multi vis.

I use Kendall GT-1 with Liquid Titanium 20/50. Before the company bought it, I pulled a spec sheet I can no longer find at the moment. As I remember, it had .119% ZDDP which equates to 1190 ppm.

When it first hit the market we were able to purchase pallets from Costco and the cost per quart was like $2.50. We now purchase it bulk in 55 gl barrels (not really 55 gallons but what the hell).

I stocked up and don't know what the current price is but can check tomorrow.

Let the oil wars continue ..............................

That's what I use & I looked it up yesterday 1200ppm ZDDP

It has API-SN in the Starburst

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