So I have had my 914 for about 3 months now. I get an email today from the DMV saying that they have frozen my title because the amount I paid listed on bill of sale ($1200) basically was not enough and that they value the car at $16800 and I now owe them the balance on taxes which is about $1200. I know they could contact the seller to ensure I paid what I say I paid but I cant imagine he would even respond to them since he is out of state and has no reason to deal with excess paperwork with an out of state DMV. Even if the number was lowered on the bill of sale from what was actually paid (a common practice I know takes place), how can they say it is worth $16800? Well I figured that out too. Check out this link and you will see. What a crock! At least I went through a title guy that can possibly take care of it all for me. He said to send him the paperwork and he will call someone there directly and see what the deal is.

Yep, this is what happens with old cars. The values start to go all over the map. A $1200 914? Possible...a $16800 914? Possible.

Without seeing the actual car, there is no way to tell. Wonder if there is a way to challenge it??

I have been required to provide an explanation before when the sale value was below what they thought it should be, but never had them force a tax payment like this after the fact, that is insane.

Do anything you can to prove that is what you paid for it. Copy of the check, pics of any damage, state is not running/blown engine, purchased for restore whatever.

This is some insane BS when they are deciding the value of a car they have never seen, no questions asked, and then taxing you on it.

...and here I thought the California DMV was the worst

That happened last time I bought a car in Texas. They took the average price of the car and I had to pay taxes on that, just another way for the state to bend you over.

Well like I said, I spoke with my title guy and he is going to call them and see what he can do. I know there are probably other ways of challenging it as well but Im sure they consist of going to an actual DMV. Fortunately I am going to one on Friday with my girlfriend so maybe I can resolve it with them in person if my title guy cant. I will bring them pics of the fuel leak and rust spots it had when I got it and see if they still think it is worth $16800

There are definately ways to contest it, I'm sure States are different. I've had to do it 2-3 Times and always prevailed

Fortunately I have some pics of it before I started working on it. I will just show the DMV agent those and see if they can fix it for me.

Good to know I'll have to keep that in mind for future cars and see how I do with other states. FL will be the next state I will have to deal with anyway, might have to get some pointers.

EXACTLY.....same thing here in Virginia when I went to title Kermee....$16,800! Sooo....when I went to price my Raby kit '72 in For Sale...it was hard to shake that claim of "average price" of 16.8K. Then again as we all get to sooner or later we're selling a $20K "investment" for 'way less....but the experience is "Priceless..."

What happened with your situation? Were you able to contest it?

Get a receipt from the seller for $1500 for a parts car, not running. . .

I've never purchased a 914 for more than $500

Maryland has an awful MVA (DMV for most states), but at least they are reasonable when buying a used car. If the car is less than 7 years old and the buyer submits a notarized bill of sale then taxes are based on the sales price, otherwise they use NADA with no adjustments for condition. If it is more than 7 years old it's the honor system - pay taxes on the claimed sales price, notary not required.

A good practice is to ALWAYS get a recipt (hand written is fine) signed for an agreed price. Here in WA state if you don't have a bill of sale signed, they decide on the spot via computer what the car is worth (read that; the high end of the price range).

What I have done is to download a pic of a total parts car and load it onto my camera memory card. Then IF there is any question at DMV, I just whip out my camera and show them the photo and ask, "Does that look drivable to you??" Officially, I never pay more than $500-600 for a car. The way I see it, the've made more money than the value of any car over the past 30-40 years anyway. SCREW 'EM!!

I'm sure they have already sent the seller a letter. Ask me how I know.

*** Edit - just don't lie. They can really come after you if you do.

A Bill of Sale should be the document for determining DMV fee evaluation (aka: 'Use Tax' in CA), not some arbitrary number they conjure up

State treasuries that are facing budget cuts (due to their own rampant over-spending) are employing more and more tactics to obtain revenue

The thing is that I did have a bill of sale BC the Nevada title didn't have a place to put the sale amount. It wasn't notarized but being from out of state it shouldn't need to be. Even if they did contact the seller and he gave them a different number, the bill of sale with his signature and mine says a different number. This isn't about that, its about whether they can get more money out of me or not. I'm sure its something flagged in their system based on make and year that gets reviewed and a letter goes out.

Had a similar issue a few months back with a County Personal Property Tax office in NC.... was easily resolved with an email explanation and a few photos. Good Luck

You need to have the car appraised and submit that paperwork to the tax office. Maybe talk to your local dealership, explain your situation, and see if they're willing to help.

I always add the phrase "as is, where is. Car is in need of mechanical repair and significant rust repair. Vehicle is not considered driveable and must be towed from the property"

Just keep a few photos handy

in NC, they don't even want to see a Bill of Sale if it's a private sale, only if it's a dealer sale. For me...it ended up being in my favor for the GT3. They only have a 2004 Porsche Carrera in their database...

For older cars that they don't have comps on, they used to go with your bill of sale, but I don't know anymore...

Wow this sounds like a political thread of some TEA (Taxed Enough Already) party people. What's wrong with you guys? Why don't you want to fund your local government? They are entitled to your money you know...

Would this be considered a 'Belly Dragger' ?
Click to view attachment

Well I talked to the title/notary guy and he said they have no leg to stand on except that they have the power to put a 'stop' on my title/registration. He said they know if I got a lawyer I would win but who would pay for that?

I called the DMV and they said what I need is either a notorized bill of sale from seller (I tried calling with no luck on a return call) or I need a report from a repair shop detailing problems with car and estimates for repair. That needs to be on their letterhead and notarized. I spoke to shop and told her I would send her a list and ask her to write it up and sign it and I would notarize it.

I am creating my list of things to-do and things I have already done. Please see below and let me know what you think of pricing for each item. Also, add anything that you would think should be added that is problematic and should always be checked.

-Tune-up (oil change, transmission fluid change, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, valve clearance -- ??
-Replace incorrect distributor -- ($45 parts)
-Replace seat belts -- ($200 parts)
-Replace fuel pump and repair fuel system leak -- $70 (for parts alone)
-Replace incorrect carburetor with correct carburetor -- $650 (for parts alone)
-Replace damaged/worn tires -- ($400)
-Fix heating system (new mufflers/heat exchangers, heat plumbing, blower motor, etc) -- ??
-Repair shift linkage bushings -- ??
-Repair emergency brake -- ??
-Repair faulty horn pad -- ??
-Replace broken motor mounts -- ??
-Brake job with new rotors -- ??
-Repair leaking oil cooler seal -- ??
-Body/interior work ????
--rusted longitudinal needs to be cut out and replaced. all rust removed
--floor pans rusted and need to be replaced
--interior carpeting needs to be replaced after floor pans replaced
--recover damaged seats and center cushion
--paint exterior

You may be able to reduce the cost of registration if you can show them the value range of the car. NADA has a classic car value guide, which may be what they are using. Try to convince them that it is not a flawless example and maybe they will give you the low range valuation.

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars

I had the Massachusetts RMV give me the old treatment when I got a title on my 1970 914. I was able to reduce the cost of getting a title by telling them that my 914 was a restoration project and was not worth the high book value.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=77706&st=0

Good luck

...And don't let it go into SUSPENSION!!
the Blood sucking bastard's will really take hold(fee's)
(of course I'm talking about Cali)

Assume the shop will do all the work even you plan on doing all or some, but I imagine that is your plan. Shouldn't be too difficult to rack up $10,000-$15,000 in repairs

But also keep in mind book value assumes normal wear and tear for the age. I wouldn't think body work unless safety related (e.g. longs and floor boards) would be considered, same for other cosmetic items like carpet.

I recently signed up Hagarty and claimed $12,500 for market value which personally I thought was a high. While talking to the underwriter about this and the NADA $16,000+ value, he felt based on following the market my value was realistic and most 914s don't command the NADA value. But when it comes to taxes and fees, they are seldom fair.

Good luck.

Just wanted to give an update on this. I spoke to the DMV and they lifted the flag on my title!

After calling a few times and finally getting someone helpful I was able to provide a document detailing the necessary work and associated costs to restore the car. I think the document ended up being about 15 pages and had nice color pictures of rusted areas etc.

So if anyone else has this happen to them dont give in without trying to find someone at the DMV that will help...they do exist!

Thanks again for all the suggestions from everyone on how to handle this!

I know I'm a little late on this, but I had a similar experience in VA (paid 400 for a car the DMV said was worth 2200). Registration (taxes) would be based on value, not sale price unless the PO would verify the actual cost. Lady at the local DMV gave me a form to be filled out and signed by the PO attesting to the actual amount of $ in the sale. Fortunately the PO was a neighbor, so all's well that ends well . . . just an additional hoop to jump through.

Hope this helps.

Steve A-

I had the same experience here in MN back in 94 when I went to transfer the Alien. The DMV guy sent the letter stating there was a problem with my vin and the amount showing I paid for my car. He wanted me to contact him. I seriously paid $ 1500.00. Same deal when I called. They were using Old Cars Price Buyers Guide. One of the problems was he was using a 72 914-6 as a comp. Here's what I told him. I told him my car needed work. He wanted me to complete all the work and send him copies of the invoices before allowing me to get my renewal tabs as he stated if the car needed work it was not safe for the road. I told him I was doing the work. He still wanted to tax me for the completed value of the car. I informed him I was paying taxes on the purchased parts and he would be double taxing me. I went on to state just because I made a good purchase does not entitle the state to over tax me.

I informed him they may collect the taxes from the new owner when I sold the car for a profit. (like that ever happens with these cars... )

I told him he could either send out my renewal tabs or send me a bill for what he thought I owed him. I told him if he failed to send the tabs I would splash this all over the news. Photos of the car, letters from the state and a call to the attorney general.

You see our attorney general at the time was running commercials for senior citizens warning them of unscrupulous individuals attempting to extort money from them. I stated that I'm sure he would like to get ahead of the press and set things right.

I received the tabs and no further correspondence....

Since then they changed the law. No more classic car extortion.

Nice going Rick. Like most beaurocrats, when you call them on something, they fold like a house of cards. I had trouble with a building inspector years ago (he called me a "liar" on the phone) and when I went down to see him (after talking to my City Councilman), the building inspector refered to me as MR. Cannon and straightened everything out in about 5 minutes.

Last337,

You should fork over the extra $1200 knowing that your state will spend 10 times that amount and even go into debt, because they don't have the balls to say NO to anybody.

Ahhhhhhhhh, sarcasm - the lowest form of humor.


Dave

OH wow, my first post. I have been lurking for a while, and joined because my venture into a 914 is quite eminent. I just could not restrain myself from chiming in on this after restoring and driving classic German cars for 20 years. Why is it that we are taxed on the upper most echelon of value by the state, THEN when a valets foot slips off the clutch any your most beloved restored classic winds up smashed into a wall the insurance company says its worth $500.00? It makes me sick.