what will this do to the classic car world?

http://www.break.com/index/why-3d-printing...ick-ass-2421396

Hemmings also did an article on this 3D Printer resource for repro parts a couple of months ago too.

I think Mark/Mikey914/914Rubber has access to one at one of the places who manufacture some of his stuff IIRC.

yup, want!

Some members on here are already messing around with this tech I believe: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...mp;#entry999478

Imagine that===we can make anything we want whenever we want.

I think the tech guys are shooting themselves in the foot with this invention.
The first thing I would print with this is another 3D printer.

and the very next thing I'd print would be... Wait, this isn't the sandbox. Never mind.

As 3D printing becomes more commonplace, its going to change the way commerce is done. Instead of buying common goods, you buy plans online and print them at home.
Folks have already printed everything from car parts, firearms, parts for the human body (an ear). I have a friend who is already making pretty good money designing stuff and selling it through Shapeways.

We are still where digital cameras were 15 years ago. Good resolution takes a LOT of cash and a big machine. But its not going to be long that these become commonplace.

Zach

It'll change space flight forever.

No more schlepping tons of spare parts with you, you make them on the fly ...

this should be something like what computers have done...

another milestone technology.

a start up in a third world country could compete with the rest of the world.

apparently the term "back ordered" is going the way of the dinosaurs

Formula One teams have already been using 3d printers in the garage during race weekends to test new aero ideas on their cars.

This is a passing fad, just like the internet and television.

a 3D scanner AND a 3D printer would be ideal.

They have been around for quite some time.

I was working in the dental cad/cam industry 10 years ago and we would use them to do dental prothesis where the printing needed to be in the few microns precise.

Today, we used them almost everyday to build prototypes of climate car seats blower housings.

I guess they are moving more towards amateur users as they are becoming cheaper. Different fabrication materials too, metal included.

We use one at work to fab parts that we need to test PCBs and make fixtures to complete prototypes for customers.

Burton has one to test out ideas for new snowboard parts.

.....The times are changing (more$$$$..for someone)

Maybe I'll have them make some door handles.

Oh boy.... the "adult " business should be able to make hay with this

I bought some fuel rail clips from AA.I swear they were made by a 3D printer,The problem was the plastic was too brittle and they just broke in half.Returning them to AA was the other issue..Just think if you bought some Microsoft in the 80's..Who is going to use a computer..We ALL are now.Great upside investment..DDD on the nasdaq..

I made a couple of rain funnels on my 3D printer

Click to view attachment

One has to take this "3d printing revolution" with a grain of salt at this point. The media hype has brought about some disillusion about what can and can't be done with this technology. Nobody has "printed" a human ear. Some researchers used a 3d printer as one tool in making a mold in which they injected a cell-containing gel.

Yes, the cost of the hobby level printer has come down. But there are still other factors to consider such as the knowledge and ability to design and draft quality parts and the access to correct materials. Common goods aren't going to be churning out of printers in people's homes in the foreseeable future. Not so long as its cheaper and easier to just buy it from a store.

....I'm hip Zonedoubt, I'd wait until they're tested for awhile...just my policy to let
new things be tryed first!!

You forgot one....the horse-less carriage! That never really turned out to be anything

Uh-huh.
Folks are already making money with this technology. The price of entry has fallen considerably with hcompanies like Shapeways. My friend John makes a good second income designing model aircraft and selling them via shapeways. His work as even been featured in one of ther commercials.

His start up cost? $0.

He uses blender - a free tool found online. He taught himself how to do this for fun. He is now selling worldwide.

I am going to use Shapeways to produce buttons for my shifter knobs... Or maybe a mold for buttons that I can cast either in resin or pewter and use in my shift knobs.

We are still in the infancy of this technology. But already it can be used to make things that would cost thousands to rapid prototype. It is catching on like wildfire.
Do I own a printer? No. But I am pretty sure I will one day, once the cost of resolution drops to an acceptable level. And I am pretty sure I will not be alone.

Want to print an AR15 lower reciever? You can get the plot for free, and its legal so long as you are the one pushing the print button.

This is a real, and really fast moving new technology. And will remain so as long as the government does not get scared and stunt its growth.

Zach

If you think the medical applications are 'far fetched' I suggest you have a look at this:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/patient-...0-1226593075470

Sure they're not printing tissues etc, but still...amazing stuff!

3D printing is going to be a world changer, people just dont realize it yet.

I know, I know...I've seen the Shapeways site. Lots of trinkets and toys and jewelry. All the power to the entrepreneurs making money from their creations. Let's just not get ahead of ourselves saying 3d printers are making body parts and common everyday utile goods.

I don't think the medical usage is far fetched. The skull replacement prototype wàs made on a one million dollar machine by highly knowledgable scientists with an engineered plastic. Worlds apart from a hobbyist with few thousand dollar 3d printer dabbling with Sketchup. All I'm saying is that people at home with 3d printers aren't going to be replacing factories anytime soon.

Good opinion piece here: http://investing.covestor.com/2013/01/3d-p...r-go-mainstream

So they ARE making body parts...

We are't saying its RIGHT NOW.
We are saying that in 10 - 20 years this is a tech that COULD change everything.
Yeah, resolution is currently expensive and hard to get. But this is tech already in the hands of common folks like you and I.

In 1993, super computers took labs and science nerds to operate. Digital cameras were horrible unless you could pay 10s of thousands of dollars, and even then they were only 3-5mp. Digital media was still in the floppy disk drive era. Look at where we are now. Every one of us is running a super computer. Key fobs hold well over 100gb. A camera smaller then my wallet will shoot 12 mp images.

Unless there is a specific roadblock laid for 3D printing, I expect it to follow a similar curve, and the down stream effects will be just as disruptive as internet commerce was for brick and morter.

Zach

And I used this technology nearly 20 years ago to make prototype parts, so it's not new. Stereolithography (SLA) goes back to the 1980's and the early work goes back to the 70's. SLA was perfected by 3D systems, and swept a laser beam across a vat of thick honey like resin to harden a thin layer on the top of a vertically movable table, the hardened layer was dropped .005 inches into the goo, a second layer was built on top of the first, the table dropped again and a third layer was built. This process could produce parts in a day or two, but parts taller than an inch or two took longer.

Then there was the SLA post processing. Raise the table, drain the unhardened goo, put the part into a shaker tank of alcohol to dissolve the goo from the corners, break off of the latticework support structures that kept the part from collapsing, and clean the parts by hand with alcohol and toothbrushes to get rid of the last of the goo. Then you trim all ridges etc with an exacto knife, put the part into a UV carousel oven, and cook the "soft" parts to hardness. Then you get to sand the stair stepping off the hardened parts to make them smooth. Used a system about 3 years ago, and the process hasn't changed much.

Initially, the laser beam was limited to 5 thousandths in width and I had a part that needed a tighter focused laser beam. Tony and I persuaded 3D systems to send us their prototype machine with a 3 thousandths wide beam. Good thing we did, they almost canned the .003 beam project due to lack of demand. Once the parts were made and they worked, I presented to management that we saved $60 K in prototype plastic mold tooling and 6 months in time, and we needed a .003 beam machine. That's how we ordered a .003 beam machine and nudged 3D systems into the smaller beam market back in the mid 90's.

Another machine that I've used is the sintered laser system which shines a laser on top of a layer of powder to melt the powder grains together. The layer drops, and a new layer of powder is rolled on top, the beam melts the second layer onto the first, the table drops, and the process repeats. SLS offers a wider range of materials than SLA, and it includes plastics and metal powders.

The newer machines in the first video can squirt molten material like a spider spinning a web.

While a great technology, there are a few limiters.

One, it's slow. I can mold plastic parts much faster than this process so it may not be great for mass production.

Two, parts are "stair stepped" and not smooth without post-processing (sanding etc). It's really noticeable on angles and curves, and not as noticeable on vertical and horizontal surfaces.

Three, while getting better, the plastic and metal parts are not nearly as strong as molded or machined parts. Strength can be between 20-80% of a "real" part and have improved greatly over the years. Of course you will pay extra for stronger feedstocks. That's business.

Four, you will pay for dimensional accuracy. In the world of milling machines, a cheap Harbor Freight unit with sloppy tolerances between running parts will never make parts as accurately as a Bridgeport with hardened ways and ultra-tight clearances between moving parts. A low cost printer makes wonderful low cost parts like key fobs, but fails when you need the tight accuracy produced with the high end laser focus machines.

Five, there is the cost aspect. Takes a PC, a CAD system, an interfacing software to bridge between the CAD output and the printer movements, and the cost of the printing system. You also have to be a trained CAD jockey to make complex parts, and better have some experience with motion control to get the printer to work. And, the more complex and accurate the parts, the higher the cost of the computer, CAD system, and the printer.

Having said all that, it's a wonderful tool, it's getting better, and is getting cheaper. Like all tools, use depends on need and some tools are better suited for one job than another. For example, when you need to make a hole in a piece of wood for a nail, a hammer and nail are appropriate and inexpensive hole makers. But, they are not well suited when you need to make a hole in a broken trailing arm bolt.

Somebody said that leaders in business and government are no longer investing in making new disruptive technologies, but rather taking a "career safe" approach to redoing and recycling old technologies as new.

For me, this is kinda like a remix of a tune from the last century being presented as "new".

It is a slim comparison between a USB stick and a 3D printer. Just because one can buy a 3d printer and plug it into their computer doesn't make them a designer or engineer.

I think the roadblock for the average person is the design skills and engineering know-how required to create digital CAD files. Then there is the knowledge of materials, quality control, tolerances, etc, etc. Just speaking from experience, these aren't easily learned and take hundreds if not thousands of hours to master. Knocking out a cute keychain on a 3d printer is a far stretch from making a usable part for a common household item.

Hey, I'm all on board with this "new" technology and will probably get a 3d printer to muck around with once the prices are reasonable. My knowledge and experience with Solidworks, AutoCAD, and industrial parts design and application would likely make it easy to pick up and learn.

Hobbyists and entrepreneurs are using them to create things that weren't possible outside of a production line setting and that's great. For your comment that this tech will be as disruptive to brick and mortar stores as is e-commerce, I think it really matters what goods you are talking about. I just can't envision a scenario where every household has a 3d printer and Jim Bob is sitting down in front of a CAD program modelling a replacement valve seat for his broken kitchen faucet. One of the comments in that article I posted might illustrate my point better:

You can buy a counter-top bread maker on Amazon for a little more than $100. The ingredients for a loaf of bread are shelf stable, widely available, and probably amount to about $3. But the existence of this device hasn't put a dent in bread sales. Over 2 billion loaves of bread were sold in the U.S. last year. Why? because a loaf of bread is about $3.50 at retail. And it's already made and in a bag.

Remember that Seinfeld episode where Kramer has the bright idea of a pizza business where one can make their own pie?

Some professional photographers would say that the availability of high resolution feature-laden digital cameras has disillusioned some into thinking they can do the job of a professional photographer. When in fact there is the same requirements of training, experience, and practice required of some other professionals. As a result quality of photography has suffered.

it almost seams like you would need the same skills as someone who runs a cnc machine.

Here's the 3D System that I used back in the mid 90's. Looks the same but the resins, accuracy and speeds have improved


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwQ5HA8sE-k

And here is the SLS powder system that can make metal and plastic parts. Looks pretty much the same as the late 90's system that I used.

Remember, while it works, the bearings are stair-stepped and will eat themselves in a short time.

The powder feedstocks can be deadly to your lungs, so a home machine is probably not going to be offered soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxjLpu2BvY

Dr Evil is waiting until they have a body sized printer to print himself a new girlfriend, or better yet twins!

Yes the technology is there, but it's not as user friendly as you would like. It's easier to make silicone molds and use catalyzed rubber, or to extrude using conventional methods. The materials cost for the parts is not cost effective for production. You can make rain funnels for maybe $15 a pop. You have a $3000 printer, so if you hapen to have the equipment and only need a set for you great, but for a business model, those are at least $20 rain funnels. Injection molding has a large up front cost say $2000, but the unit cost may be $1 a pop.
Sell 1000 pcs at $6 for a $3000 profit may take 2 years+
or print them at say best case $10 each and sell at $12.50 each. say you do sell 500 pcs you can make $1250, but your overhead is the materials and printer.

So, if you don't have to pay for a printer you could make money making these, if you don't count your time in. Also there are issues with storage of the powder or gel.


Not my business model, but if you want to pay over 2x the price, I'll take it.

These do have a place, but they are not there yet. When the replicator from Star Trek comes on line, sign me up.

A portion of shattered skull was replaced using this tech just recently.

Mikey, there are other tricks that you can do with SLA. I've actually seen it used to make molds for stainless steel cast parts. We designed the parts on CAD so that each part had a casting runner extending from it that would plug into a central sprue. We downloaded the models to the SLA tank, and made a bunch of the parts/risers, and one central sprue.

When the SLA pieces were done, we assembled them into a "tree" where the sprue was the "trunk" and the risers on the parts acted as "branches" that plugged into holes within the sprue/trunk. So we ended up with a "tree "with a cloud of parts surrounding the central sprue.

We sent that out to our caster, where it was dipped in casting plaster, and surrounded by foundry sand to make a mold. And when metal was poured into the SLA sprue, the plastics burned away creating a passage for the molten metal. The molten metal burned it's way down the sprue, down the risers, and into the part cavitys and formed the parts. We sent out a SLA "tree", got back a staineless steel "tree" and we simply cut the parts off. Some people use the SLA parts to make silicone molds and then cast wax in the silicone momds for the "lost wax" process. See pic below of an "after casting" "tree".

I've also used SLA to make a quick and dirty mold that could be used to make a small quantity of injection molded parts. We simply made the SLA mold to fit within our plastics press, and squirted plastics into the cavity of the SLA mold. Didn't last long, but it was quick, dirty and cheap, and lasted long enough to make the parts we needed.

Vision systems that can copy an existing part may make the process much easier even if you have to make changes to the design.

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/cebit...-printer-109908

I have used several different 3D printers and SLA machines, They are best used for prototyping or form, fit and function purposes. Someone has an idea and you use the machine to create a prototype that can then be given to the customer (engineers, designers or end users) so they can then look it over. As stated previously, it can also be used to create a mold, die or the 3D file can be used for CAD/CAM tool pathes. I have done all these for the last 10 years in many different industries but mainly for Door & Window manufacturing and Inter-Connect manufacturers. As for production, this technology is not the answer at this point in time but giving it a few more years and throwing alot of money at it, it could be exactly what you see on Star Trek or The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy movie.

I think this problem could be easily overcome by making the driving design file available for download. Then the process would be roughly equivalent to a user downloading and printing out an owner's manual.

Assuming manufacturers are going to release 3D drawings of part or all of their goods on their websites.
Assuming the "average" person knows how to select and load correct materials into their 3d printer.
Assuming the "average" person knows how to do the finishing processes on the item that comes out of their 3d printer.

I think the average person on this forum may be up for the task. But for the general populace, 3d printing of common items isn't going to become mainstream anytime soon.

Folks are already releasing designs online.
As printers become more commonplace and the materails get better and resolution gets higher, there will be a market place for 3D designs to be printed at home.

we are not there yet. But we will get there.

Zach