first lap is the warm up, second is timed.

Listen to me yelling at the end when I get my 34.485,
"that's what I wanted, right there"!

a/x

KT

thanks for these awesome videos...i wanna finish my car and ax sooooo bad!!!

could have shaved off a second by downshifting in that hairpin.

just listen to your motor ...
Andy

I've found the 1st gear in a stock 914 box to be pretty much worthless for anything but the start of an AX......It's too short to be of any value. I have run nearly all of an AX in 1st, tho.....on an absurdly short /tight course.

Top speed in first for me is bout 35 mph and I have 7000 rpm to play with....that's about 60 feet OTG. Better to try to get the motor to torque (even off the bump) out of a tight corner than risk down & upshifting. Now, if I could find a "B" gear set.......I may have to settle for a "C".

I have setup 3-4 boxes this year just so people could use first in the really tight corners. I listen/watch people and make suggestions all the time that they use first gear to squirt out of a corner. It is questionable... but if they dont have a better time at the end... dont do it the next time. Pretty easy.



B

You can use first if you're good at rpm matching.

Trekkor... you left about 1.5 seconds if not 2 on that course.



B

Trekkor,

The clip stopped playing about 75% into your warm-up lap - so take my comments with a grain of salt...

Just before the sharp left turn in front of the semi, you should have braked earlier so that when you turned left you were not so far to the right side of the course. By braking a tad late, you were to far on the right making the subsequent right turn sharper, slowing you down for the next straight straight.

Larry Sharp said it best... you need to be going painfully slow into that corner.

I only sawa few people get that corner right... not even sure I got it right myself... but when you watched the yellow RS (Larry) you saw the right line.

Steve

it did that to me too!

just hit play again and it should run full length ...
Andy

Thanks for the instruction!

I did try downshifting into first on an earlier run.
It was hard to get into first carrying that much speed into the first sharp hairpin corner. My first gear only likes to engage when I'm nearly stopped. Clunky.

I think if I started accelerating while the brakes were still on I could've got the rpm 's up earlier.

Steve, you are right. That corner before the truck was difficult for me. I can see how giving up on that one corner would pay off on the next set.

Brad, where did you see room for improvement? 2 more seconds off would have been amazing...

KT

Getting on the gas sooner would have been my idea's.. And more freequently..

But I've never ran a 914 on the autox so I have no clue what the heck im talking about

EDIT:woops that was me commenting about the other video.. lol
but this one is probably the same... lol

In the 2003 season my usual co-driver was out of town so I offered the ride to a local hotdog/buddy that had never driven the car. After he ran 3-4 sec quicker than me, I asked him where I had lost time. A one word answer "Everywhere"

I watched each of your vids several times. It seemed....ah....nonviolent.

Right now my main focus is smooth steering input and proper car control.
My understanding is that tire squeal and sliding is " braking ". Fun though.

J.P. what would you have done differently?

KT

Don't ask me I'm still working on "everywhere".
That was an observation, not a critique. I'll leave the advice to the exspurts.

I welcome any ideas that would improve my driving.

KT

I agree that the use of 1st gear in severely slow corners is always worth a try. When I AXed a 1.7L extensively I used 1st on a lot of slow corners and it always made an improved difference.
In my 2.0L sometimes it did and sometimes it did not. I would always try it to see if it gave you that extra kick off of the slow ones. I also used it to help rotate the car faster than with just steering input. Several of the corners appeared that you were in too deep leaving you very much off line to enter the next corner. Maybe you should have given up the first corner to get the second one better for more speed after the second one.
Did you still have the Megs on in that video?

No megaphones.

I think the approach I usually take is to carry as much speed as possible before the turn and brake very hard before the turn begins.
If the course allows it, I'll shift before the turn , too.

I think at Infineon, I traded fast entrance for slow exits.

That was by far the narrowest course I've ever run, and shortest.
The course was maybe two cars wide. Not a lot of room for error. Getting through without a cone was an acomplishment in itself.

There were a couple of places where I wish I had my SIX. I was on the rev limiter, as I was in second gear the entire run. Having another 50hp and 1000rpms would be nice, eh?

KT

To stimulate discussion, I'll make a few general comments.

All the fast guys that I know have loads of experience.....10-20 years worth and they do it as frequently as possible. Kinda like fishing, 10% of the fishermen get 90% of the fish.....opportunity & practice.
A good fisherman can look at a section of river and tell whether or not it is a good spot. A good AXer can look at a course and tell where he can make time or where he needs to cool it. He can then be aggressive on his first run.

Aggression is a key....maybe THE key. This is hard for folks like me who have driven on the street for 40 years and have developed safe driving habits. If you're not pushing the car & yourself you're gonna be.....safe, smooth, but slow. Guys that are fast are on the edge of control...or over it, but have the ability to stich the moves together to *make it look smooth*....in the car, it is actually quite violent. Their car is frequently not traveling in the direction it is pointed. *Watch these guys closely*.... you can learn "things". They will pick off a cone or 2, but seldom have a "big moment".
I watch 2 local guys that compete nationally. Never seen either of em' spin.....even in a strange (to them) car.....wierd.

Nuthin wrong with sliding the car....little slides men you're on the limit.....not to be confused with big slides....those cost time. Sliding the car while brakeing is not good
If you're not sliding the car, you really don't know if the car is understeering, oversteering, or neutral.....thus you can't make good decisions on car set-up.

These are my opinions and they are mine.

It's interesting, JP, I used to be very cautious.
I never wanted to hit any cones or slide or spin.

I have a knack for recovering from spins. I am not scared to spin out. I have a clip from Alameda where I spin out sliding 50 yards sideways out of the top of third gear.
I wish I would have stopped for the downed cone on the course to get the re-run.

I do all those things, testing the limits of the various sections of the course.

Hopefully by the end of the day I can scrounge up a clean run with my best driving in each portion of the track.

All the TTOD contenders hit the cones and go DNF.
It's the few runs that they squeeze out at the end that put them on top.

At SCCA, the first 3 runs count.......that tends to focus one's attention. One often gets more runs, but the times aren't published. Guys (and gals) that are really good will crack off 3 runs within a few tenths of each other. The cream still rises to the top.

Frankly (flame suit on), PCA is the bush leagues by comparison......but they are fun The GGR seems to exclude cars other than Porsche. Thus, you don't get to see most of hot dogs in your area. Go to one of the SCCA National tour events in your area.....enter if your ego can take it

Your TTOD cars are (or seem to be) SCCA E Mod cars......fast, but not the fastest. Driven well....and quickly *within the first 3 runs*, they would prolly do well at SCCA.
DNFs, loops, cones, going slow to learn the course... will get you a mid pack finish, BTDT.....all too often A car *specificly setup for* E Mod (rather than.. oops your in E Mod cause ya got twin plugs) has taken TTOD at out local
SCCA events....but not always.

BIG tiars, low weight, decent P/W ratio will make you look good.....till ya run up against a bunch of hotdogs with similar set-ups. Hell, even *I* look gud at PCA.....sometimes .

I went up to a PNWR event this last season....not one of my better days, but that's not the point....an SCCA BSP C-4 Vette waxed the field by a second or more.....and them PNWR guys take their AX very seriously.....100 car fields are the norm.

In PCA GGR we have car fields that run anywhere from 100 to 120 cars. We allow any make of car as long as it is owned by or brought to the event by a PCA member. This year we have had Ferrari's, Z06 Vettes, BMW M3s and various other cars.
We have several former SCCA champions in our midst. Larry Sharp, Jeff and Stacy Reitmier. and of few others that come to mind. I don't know about up in WA but down in Sunny CA (65 degrees today) many of our PCA members do not take back seats to SCCA or other sanctioning body members. We used to run events with the Corvette club but they got tired of getting beat by 4 banger Porsches, not to mention the 6 pot variety.
In the past GGR AXs were run very differently than they are now and you would only get 3-4 runs at any given configuration. The way we run our events was changed to accomodate newbies and to foster their desires to return for more fun.
Not to cause any major discussions but the course that I saw on the video is not typical of GGR courses in its length or width. (GGR rules require all straights to be minimum 20feet wide and turn radiuses to be a min of 25feet.) That course was not to those specs. from what was visible on the video.
It is amazing to me that GGR takes such grief about our AXs but at every Porsche Parade folks like Tom Provasi and Terry Zaccone and others always take TTOD in their respective classes year after year.
Just my perspective after 15 years of AXing in GGR.

Hey, Provasi is LPR--not GGR!

BTW, JP was not specifically raggin' on GGR, but on PCA in general. So Tom's accomplishments don't mean as much in that context, because he's "only" running against PCA'ers.

I run PCA, because I like the atmosphere better. Also, when I was getting started at least, you got many more runs with PCA. LPR in particular!

--DD
(can ya tell I'm an LPR member?? )

A bit of nostalgia from the 'old days'

When I started autocrossing (with GGR) in 1980, we had around 150 entrants. You were assigned a driver number based on the order that you registered (you wanted a very low number!). You lined your car up in lines broken down by car numbers. You signed up for 1 or 2 one hour shifts to work. The typical run was 1 practice and 2 timed laps, and participants had 2 to 3 runs (max) in a DAY. These runs were spread evenly throughout the day.. in other words you could easily have a 2+ hour wait between runs. We ran until 5:00pm - the last 15 minutes was in strict numerical order. There was no such thing as fun runs. Bottom line if you slept in you had a high number and were almsot guaranteed to get one less run then an early bird.

Autocrossing across Zone 7 has changed a lot over the years.

Infineon event

I saw the original plans for the Infineon event - and the course would have been more open and a lot different - but the Michael Andretti Trailer forced Kern and Matt to change about half the course and tighten things up significantly.

Other series'
As for SCCA events... I encourage folks to try them - the ones here in Nor Cal are very competitive. I ran a couple of SCCA and American Auto-X events in 2002 when I first got my car re-assembled and was trying to learn it. I did fairly well - but it also is a very humbling experience. There are excellent drivers and some very wild machines. Also in the events I ran, the structure of the courses appeared more wide open then what we have in GGR or Zone 7.

Going Faster
As for driving styles... one should not drive conservatively, however just being agressive can at times be counter productive. Remember the adage of 'slow down to go faster'. The comment I made to Trekkor about the one corner before the trailer demonstrates that. Going slower - would have made a better exit and a faster run.

just my $0.10

Steve

Trekkor,

I've got to agree with J P. If anything, you were too smooth. You should have attacked that course more aggresively.

From what Icould see from the video, there were a couple of locations where sliding the car could have shaved some time. Personally, I only started winning trophys after I learned to slide and rotate the car. Depending on the course, it can be amazing the time that can be saved, and it can be a lot of fun.



Great video. Keep em coming.

i disagree ...

schmooth is gud! he needs to be more agressive AND smoother at the same time. i can drift my car through a corner and make you feel like your're still in bed at the same time.

don't mistake being agressive with jerking the car around. that is not fast.
smooth but yet agressive and driving to the limits is the way to go.

now i just need to get back to the shop and finish my car so i can back up what i just said next AX season ...
Andy

Randal, where are you ?!

I've been working very hard all season with my instructor, Randal, to be as smooth as possible.

This idea of agressive, violent, sliding goes contrary to what I've been taught.

Give examples from the video where this could be put in place.

In my car, if you don't drive smooth through the turns, you spin or get sideways.

Keep the instruction coming.

Steve, I should have let you drive my car in place of yours since you lost a run due to the breakdown.
I wonder if you could of got TTOD from my car?

KT

I admit that my perceptions may be a bit skewed, as all our AX venues are rough as a cob....there's a lot of crashing & banging going on. A good AX car can generate around 1 g of grip and our courses are fairly tight due to the area constraints. They are also often "tricked up" to slow the speeds down. It is a challenge to a course designer to keep entrances & exits as free as possible while avoiding the worst of the bumps & dips. Even then, there have been reports of the ulf in full flight.

For instance, this last one had 3 Chicago boxes. Hoofin' it thru one of them goodies is a violent maneuver even when you get it right. Typically, one will arrive at one of these things at 50-60 mph. Maybe 25-30 mph is needed in order to pass thru clean......these are an area to make time over the more timid souls ... heavy brakes and a left, right, left....more than a "flick". Get it right and you're a hero.
I've had some of my best(?) "big moments" at these suckers....blowing out the backside going backwards will ruin a good run, but that's how you learn "that was too fast".

A typical pass will leave me breathing hard (dunno if I'm holding my breath ) & sweating.

Aggression: More properly controlled aggression.
Learning where to "just get thru" and where to attack. I agree totaly with Steve's statment about giving up speed on an enterance to set up for an exit at a given section....controling the "red mist" is a bitch.

I love to watch Jim Daniels & his Miata. My usual reaction is
"my gawd, how does he do that?". ...and he was "only" 4th
in CSP at Topeka this year. Watch (& listen) to him once and one knows how to drive a course.....doing it yourself is another matter.

I was very happy with my outcome throught the start/finish.
All of the drivers were hitting these cones all day long.

KT