Hi All,

Hypocrite that I am, I'm nervous about my kids desire to own a 914 as his first car. I bought and drove one as a "Step Up" from my hot-rodded '69 Beetle when I was 19. I just feel though that there are a hell of a lot more people on the road driving earth-moving Suburban/lifted 4x4s etc than when I was young (early 80's) and that the likelihood of getting run over/punted in a 914 these days is much higher.

Now, this has no basis on fact, just my hunch, and probably my protective instinct so...

Do you think that a 914 with these mods might be enough to ease my fears?

- Fully caged including door bars to slow down side impact incursions

- Safety harness?

- Added bright LED Brake Light bars

- Fuel Cell to minimize the gasoline-in-the lap fun of VW's and Porsches

- automatic Fire supression system

- Use a '75 or '76 model year for the honking big 5MPH bumper added safety margin

- Better than stock tires and brakes

- Driving school - (Learn to handle the car on wet curvy roads, no ABS, etc)


Okay, clearly I'm a paranoid guy... I really would have preferred that my son drive something forgiving in a crash like a mid/late -90's Mustang

Opinions?

Thanks

Brian

You should be nervous. Not a lot of protection in accidents but on the other hand, tough to have sex in... Seriously, they aren't the easiest cars to keep running are they?

Get him a Honda beater with lots of airbags and let him drive that for a year or two.

In the meanwhile, build a 914 together with him. That way, he gets to know the car, you guys can bond over the work and he has a goal to look forward to.

Make it clear that he will only get the 914 if he does well with the beater car. If he screws up, no 914 ...

I've had decent luck with my car as a daily driver once I'd gone completely through the stock injection system. New hoses, sensors where needed, and keeping the valves adjusted was the trick.. just alot more maintenance than your modern "drive it and forget it" Ford/Chevy/Honda etc...

I know a race car can be built to make some pretty horrible crashes survivable.. I'm just not sure if that practically translates into a road car.

It doesn't translate well at all. Plus, you're sending the *wrong* message to your kid by building him a "race car".

What do you think he'll do with a "race car"???

I'll give you some perspective on this one as I've driven my 914 since the day I turned 15 1/2 (Learners permit) I love driving my car around everywhere, but you cannot drive it like a suburban, as it is one of the smallest cars on the road, and is not crazy visible. I have a loud exhaust on my car, so that helps a little I think.

-He needs to have the situational awareness of a fighter pilot to survive on the road day to day, especially on the freeway. I have been "moved over" countless times by soccer moms who are trying to change lanes in the freeway and not looking to see if a car is there.
-A third brake light on the targa bar is a must have for being visible in traffic.
-Find a late car like a 75/76 with the impact bumpers and heavy doors. These are as safe as you can be in a 914 without installing a full cage, harnesses, and race seats.
-Leave the fuel tank in. They don't spill fuel, and if the charcoal canister and evap system is properly setup, he will only smell fuel upon making a hard left-hand turn with a full tank of fuel.

I drive around with door bars and a roll bar, because when I built my car, the plan was to autocross it often. It has become a danger to my own safety I'm sure for the reasons:
-I not longer have racing seats and harnesses, so my head can easily hit the roll bar if I was in hard side impact collision
-When I had race seats and harnesses in, it was easy to get lazy, and not tighten down the belts, and sometimes not run the crotch strap. This in itself was dangerous, as in an impact, the shock of your body coming forward, and then stopping HARD on the harnesses would be no bueno. The snap is quite violent. They are only good if you are pinned in the car with them.

I drove around for 2 years with what I would call a streetable "race car". No tickets, but I should have been pulled over many times over with some of the stuff you can do in a 914 with a hot 4 cylinder.


914's are very easy to get out of for a young kid. A fire system is not needed, especially if you install the stainless tunnel fuel lines IMO. If the car catches on fire, it will catch in the engine bay from fuel spraying everywhere... he should be able to get out.


You sound very protective, which I respect, but I don't think you sound ready to let him have a 914 as a first car, becasue they just arent as safe as a modern car with airbags and proper crash structures.

I think that's a brilliant solution Andy. It's gonna take quite a while to rebuild a car anyhow. I thought we could rebuild my '76 and his car side-by-side, stripping them both down, welding up rust, learning basic body work, and paint.

Thanks

This suggestion is only maybe half serious but get him a small motorcycle to ride for awhile and he will REALLY learn the definition of "defensive driving".

It would depend on the kid. My second car was a 1970 MGB in ’79, and while there weren’t that many SUVs around cars were a lot larger. Side impact standards were improved for the 1973 model year, so you’ll want to avoid the early cars. Third brake lights help, but like anti-lock brakes and everything else people have gotten used to them and they’re effectiveness isn’t the same as when they were introduced. Better tires help, but brakes have an operating temperature and awesome brakes don’t stop so great when cold. You’re in Petaluma and Sonoma Raceway isn’t that far away for a real driving school.

I wouldn't mind Driving School myself.. that could be great fun with my son.
Thanks

Consider the first car as "disposable". Learning to drive is just that, a learning process, as such, kids are going to make mistakes. Just make sure they survive to learn from those mistakes. My daughters 1st car was an older Altima, it survived 6 years, had the front bumper reattached x2, the right side rebuilt because she was going too fast for the exit ramp (45 instead of 25) and several other mishaps, but she survived and learned and now comfortably drives in DC and NYC.

I thought 914's were relatively safe cars to drive. I once heard a rumor that you could drive into a brick wall at 70mph and walk away from it.

I've seen this discussion more than a few times here in the past.

I think 99% of the answer has to do with the kid getting the car.

I bought my 6 in 1973, when I was 18.
Not my first car..
It came after a few MGB's and a Ford or 2. I was after a 750 Honda
and my parents were more than happy to see me buy ANY car instead.

My father knew the owner of the Local VW Porsche Dealership and
even he told my dad he wouldn't put his 18 year old son in a 914-6.
My dad answered that he would sign the loan for me,
but not my brother.
I still have the car.... Guess my dad knew me well enough....

I agree with Sir Andy 100%. That will allow your son to learn to appreciate the car and respect it.

I wouldn't mind it personally but with some reservations. I've allready told my son he will get one when he is 16 if he get's his Eagle scout by then. We do live in a fairly small town. I wouldn't let him out on the freeway with it. Anytime he wanted to go out of town. It would most likely be in my wife's rig or my truck. Still for around town I don't see it being a problem. I've still got 2 years before then & he has a hell of alot of work to do for his eagle scout. So I am probably safe there anyway

If its bone stock and reliable Or has a reliable engine conversion then OK, but I tried it. (My 914 was my first car..) Ended up just driving my dads stock 944 turbo around as my daily.

I bought mine for 1k which now would be about 2k worth of car. Drove it home and just proceeded to do everything to it as I was a kid.. Didnt work out well and I got frustrated with doing valve jobs and not having a reliable engine and did an engine swap. Still dont have a reliable cooling setup for the car so it really doesnt get driven much.


I would opt for a more disposable car like mentioned above.. Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Saturn (My preference is Saturn... All the hondas in a beginner price range have had the snot beat out of them. Saturns not so much. 2k can get you a very nice ABS air bag lightweight plastic reliable 4 door.)

Then get them a project car that they have to spend a year working on to respect cars and put their disposable income in (Instead of a POS beginner car). By the time they have crashed their first car, and got the "project" drivable then they have more caution and respect for the car and driving.

I bought my 914 at 17 and it was my first car. I considered it a good first car as a kid as it had great brakes, great handling and not enough power to easily get myself in trouble in.

That being said, I was VERY responsible as a kid, but did drive around with way too many passengers (girls) and YES, you can easily have sex in the car, but don't worry about that, if he is gonna, it doesn't matter what car he has.

Only other thing, I agree with 73-914 kid, Do NOT put a cage and harnesses in the car, he is safer with stock seatbelts and a door he can climb out of in an accident (avoids the entrapment, head instersection with cage, etc. )

That being said, I agree with bozo914, get him a old civic or corolla to learn and wreck and work on the 914 together.

Enjoy and you can't keep him from every danger, he has to learn.

Brian,
Andy is so right with this advise. Start out slow with a safe beater and build a life time of togetherness doing a 914 Father/Son build. Best thing in my realationship with my son building a Mustang.
Tom

My eldest is pretty responsible. He's mechanically inclined also which really helps. I taught him how to saw wood with the bandsaw at age 8 and he reliably uses spacer blocks to keep his hands away from the work and eye protection like I taught him. He ended up being the teacher's aid in his junior high school shop class, teaching the other kids how to run the saw, wood lathe, drill press etc. He has his 1st degree blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do at age 14 and has been teaching younger kids for 1 1/2 years.

That said, I lived a much less "sheltered" life at his same age. I road my bicycle all over town at a much earlier age going to baseball practice etc with the associated "traffic awareness" needed. I learned to drive a manual shift on the forklift at my "break every child labor law out there" job in a factory at age 12. Driving my VW Beetle was easy after learning how to operate a clutch.

Anyhow, a "modern" beater can be had cheaply to let him develop skills with forgiveness.

Thanks for tips on roll cages.. hadn't thought about the entrapment issue.

This is a joke right?

It was my first car. Be prepared for another one to be taken off the road when it gets wrecked. I wouldn't put a bunch of money into it...

I'd go with a $2K - $10k beater for the first car. Both of my girls are really good drivers and both have had their (non-Porsche) cars beat to death parking in college parking lots and the associated haunts.

They aren't allowed to take my 3.6L 914 at any rate, although I did consider the '84 911 for one. They've been around our Porsche's their entire lives, but neither was interested in a Porsche at all. In fact one wanted a Mustang and the other a Hummer until she got wind of the gas mileage.

They've both driven the 914 and do well, but I think it scares them. Not because of anything that happened but what they think can happen if they're careless or inattentive. I'm good with that.

But they have both put in many hours helping me modify that 914 and I have the pix to prove it! Fine times those.

Good luck!

I agree with Andy. I have said this before. 914's are hard to see and no match with a SUV or lifted 4x4
Accidents happen even with the most cautious and responsible drivers.
You have a son turning 16 get him a safer and more reliable set of wheels and make the building of a 914 a common goal.

Does not matter how good your kid is. Giving them a sports car for a first car is bad parenting. Even a low powered sports car like a 914 or a x1/9.

Get them a beater honda or toyota as Andy suggested. Something with airbags that you won't be too upset about when it is destroyed.

Zach

Just to be clear, while I agree on not allowing him to drive a "sports car" as his first, i won't be "giving" him anything.

He needs a paying job to pay for car, parts, driver education insurance, etc. My dad "allowed" me to buy my mom's Beetle with blown engine, buy all new parts, pay for machining, and he taught me how to assemble the engine and reinstall. I drove the crap out of that car for 3 years, went through the engine I blewup (timing was too advanced) and finally went to the dark side (bought a Wisconsin '72 914... horrible lesson on rust buckets...).

i finally threw in the towel on air cooled and drove a Dodge K-car for college. After college I bought my '76.

Anyhow, I want it to hurt if he damages something he bought with his own money, otherwise he'll be numb to the value of money and hard work.

My 914 was my first car. I want my kids to be in something safer.

here is the only thing i think is dangerous about a teen driving a teen. speed. everytime i drive my 14 (mostly when im not in a hurry, or in heavy traffic - i have the sonada for that) i want to drive it like a race car. i have to constantly monitor myself to drive like im on a lazy sunday not trying to be Fernando Alonso (my favorite F1 diver). for all the reason that all us members know, the 14 just loves the turns and there's nothing better that finding a nice smooth long on ramp and going threw the gears at 6000 rpm's feels and sounds so great am my 14 doesn't even have an aftermarket exhaust or any engine mods. so aside from everything you and the others have mentions that make driving a different proposition from say a Honda, or a Toyota highlander, or a mustang, to me the "feel like you gotta take the turn fast" is what i think is the most dangerous. switching ends or drifting into on coming traffic would have horrible consequences. that said if your son can focus on driving safely and as long as he is not driving so many miles a day, i think you should consider a trial and see how it goes...

My teenage son wants to learn how to drive a stick shift. I was going to teach him on the MGB but that car had shitty brakes and hard shift steering, not safe at all. So I now I have a 914 and planned to teach him with this car, but I must say the shifting pattern is not the easiest to learn, especially for someone who has never driven a stick.

I considered myself a very good driver, but this 914 took me a little longer to get used to as far as driving a stick.

I may just buy an old Honda with stick shift for him to learn.

My son drives a 944. His first car. It stops better, turns better and can get out of the way. He's a hot shot Lacrosse player so his head's on a swivel. As and Bs equal Porsche. A C will get him shotgun in Mom's mini van.

Any kid is going to drive any car they get too fast. I want my son to be able to make the turn, stop in time and get out of the way. I drove supped up VWs as a kid and at 18 I bought my fist Porsche. I worked my ass off to buy that car and I sold it for a profit later on. Cars are an extension of a man's personality. Don't make your kid drive a POS he doesn't love. Let him drive one he does

A roll cage is a terrible idea in a streetcar. Unless he's going to wear a helmet and harnesses every time he drives it.

In my experience, the first car lasts 3 -6 months before being wrecked, whether his fault or not.

nailed it

Mine too and at least when I was 16 driving mine like an idiot people were a LOT less distracted. I have to drive my 914 exactly like I ride my motorcycle--defensive and thinking everyone else on the road could kill you. FWIW, I did eventually run my first 914 into a freeway off ramp wall good thing the disease had already set in and I had another project 914 in the garage...

get him a Miata....

only seats 2.... no yappy buddies ridings with him to distract him...

he wont be getting nooky in it 'cause its too small...

good fuel economy...

it's safer with modern crush zones and bags...

they are cheap and reliable....

and he can get street cred with it because it's rear wheel drive like all the cool drift cars...

and make him build the 914 and put the bloody knuckles in to it so he wont ef it up being stupid.

If you get him a miata, he will be labeled as, well, you get the picture...Definetely no nooky.. It takes a lot to build a masculine looking miata... I've done it before, and they tend to end up becoming complete race cars once you're done.

If he is a Porsche nut, maybe look into a good clean 944. They're really not all that expensive..

My pops had a 67 Pontiac Firebird with a 400 in it! Really fast and fun car when I was a kid. My oldest brother wanted it when he turned 18 but pops said no. My middle brother when he turned 18 then wanted it but pops said no. I never asked for it because he said no to the other two, Well when he sold it I had told him it would have been nice to keep it in the family and he said that if he knew I wanted it he would have given it to me. I was surprised that he said that, and told him of course I wanted it but I never asked because he didn't give it to my other brothers. He then told me, if I would have asked for it when I was 18 he would have said no also.

He then told me the story of how he received the 400 big block, It was purchased from a father of a kid that had wrapped his Firebird around a pole while racing another kid and passed away. It was a father / son build and the only thing left of the car salvageable was the trans and motor. So he told me there was no way he would put his sons in a race car when at 18 young men feel in-destructible but when I asked about it I was 29 and with a 8 year old child so I was more responsible.

I agree 100% with Andy, a honda or even a toyota would be better. Something economical and reliable not to mention with plenty of airbags! Hell, my daughters are 22 and 21 now, they still scare me when they drive around!

Im fully serious, Get him a motorcycle.

As others have noted this topic isn't new, a good recent thread included pics of 914 post accident, most all of which showed the passenger compartment fairing well.

No matter what he ends up in teach him to drive and do so by way of clinics, autocross and one day a driving school. Since he is going to do it anyway it might as well be done legally.

My son is going on year two and a half with his 914-since his 16th birthday. He has autocrossed and has shown he can manage the car right at the limit. He has felt the benefits of adding better tires and sway bars at both ends first hand and tells me he doesn't want stiffer springs in the rear (140 lbs now). He loves his car and treats it well. Just fast enough with its rebuilt motor to merge easy in modern traffic.

To me a car he loves beats a POS he is hoping will get destroyed. And a big car only gives a false sense of security and won't likely see an autocross so no real development of driving skills. But when we want him to take a bigger car because the traffic will be extremely heavy etc., he takes the old Volvo S70. Best of both worlds. I trust him to drive all our cars, to include a boxster and 356, but he prefers to drive his own.

Consider teaching your son to drive and wrench on a car worth owning. While 944's can take a really good impact, they are ugly and boring to drive in comparison, but still would be a reasonable way to start working on driving skills.

Ultimately, allow him to get whatever you can live with but make a concerted effort to teach him to drive both on the road and at the limit, continuing to drive with him in the next few years and always reminding him of the good habits until they are second nature. That will make him safe in any car, the car only can't make him safe. Unfortunately, the news is regularly proving that even Suburbans aren't safe for teens when they aren't attentive to driving safely.

Best of luck to you and your son.

Jonathan