Hi All -
I came out to find a flat this afternoon. No worries, grabbed a floor jack and planned to take it in for repair. I pulled all of the lugs and the wheel would not budge - I thought it was frozen to the rotor hub. Spun the wheel around and found this lock very well hidden under what looked like a stock lug!

I found that there is another on the other front wheel as well. I bought the car in December and I have no key - and per the pics, they both look to have different index pins.

Can someone tell me what brand these are? I am dead in the water until I can find a key (keys?).

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Usually I would just bang a socket on a lock, but there is no way to do that with these. I am really bummed.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!!!
Scott S

Is there anyway you can fix the flat with a Fix A Flat can, then drive your teener to a tire store because I am sure they can help you get it off without damaging your wheel.

wheel stores have some keys but most cut it off or drive on a socket and charge up to $100 per wheel. With this one recessed in the wheel???????? wow.

Try a big pbblaster soak front and rear and get the biggest pin spanner you can find and see if it fits.

Call the previous owner??
Good Luck

Weld something onto it that you can grip, like a nut, etc.

Over torque all the other nuts, then hit it with a chisel,, overtorue the others in theory releases some tension on the lock..also hit hit straight on with flat nose puch will also release some torque tension..Do It

I wonder how tight it is... maybe a pin spanner?

A big pair of snap-ring pliers? Or needle-nose pliers to fit the holes?

--DD

If you use the Fix A Flat, remove the tire and clean all that crap out ASAP. It is not meant for long term use. It WILL eat at the wheel

Check under spare tire, glove box, under the seats , and door pocket. It's gotta be somewhere hidden in the car.

Those are of a type seen in the P-car biz in the 70s and 80s. They use a 2 part key with hardened steel pins. The 2 part key was an attempt to fix the weaknesses on the earlier one part key. Wasn't all that much better ........ They are notoriously failure prone. You're gonna have to use a hole saw to remove it. Get one that just fits over the stud and VERY CAREFULLY cut through the lock. If you're lucky, you won't scar the wheel. Take your time. Once the bulk of the lock is cut away, the remaining sleeve should come out relatively easily. Pin wrenches, pliers, and punches are NOT in the picture, so don't waste your time. I've probably come across this 5 or 6 times, and buggering up the lock isn't gonna make the job any easier; on the contrary, it will probably make removal more difficult.

Good luck!

The Cap'n

doit

Pointed Drift and a BFH and hit it counter clockwise.

I think I have a new set of those in the bag. Ill have to find them but I remember them being that weird 2 part design. I should beable to find them.

Looks like I have the Key you need, but I'm a long way away - let me know if you want me to send it to you

T.C.

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T.C.- Nice find. I hope he gets those off w/o damaging his wheels. I hate wheel locks ad alarms.

TC!

You have PM!!

crap I used to have a set of those on an 83 SC

I don't have the key anylonger sorry.
cold chisel maybe
or take the time to borrow a key like you are doing.

Actually TC, it looks like yours is a little tighter in the 3 pin arrangement than what the OP shows. I have what looks like the same one as yours, although I'm missing one bottom pin. When I bought my 930 i found 4 lug nuts and the key in the glovebox, took off the wheel locks that moment. I never liked the idea of the locks for this very reason.

I would try posting on the bird 911 site, somebody has to have the same pattern you have.

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Scott, I answered your PM, but I see what Calvin is saying. So I'm not sure my Key will work.

T.C.

Yeah, there might be a bunch of combinations of the Pins as on mine on the 3 Pin set, mine has one that is offset a little & on the 2 Pin mine look closer together.

I have n idea who made these, this Key has been sitting in my Toolbox for many years. I know I never used it

I wonder if at least 2 pins will line up and allow for enough torque to get the lock off? They look press fit should be able to pull out pins. I'd be happy to donate my key if it might help...

My Pins don't look pressed in, but made as one piece with the Key

Well, here I am again. Maybe some of you aren't clear on the concept of theft prevention through the use of wheel locks. There are literally DOZENS of different pin configurations, maybe more. The hardened pins are set in aluminum keys. The improved version features a 3rd piece which attempts to hold the key snug to the lock. The "fix" was only marginally successful; the pins still sheared or popped out of the overstressed holes in the soft aluminum of either the lock or the key. If 6 pins, or even more, can't hold up under the torquing or loosening process, why would you EVER think two would? I speak from experience, a deep hole saw is going to do it, and all other attempts are simply going to complicate removal down the road. Using a punch is just going to distort the aluminum and make it even more resistant to removal.

Have fun. Most tool stores sell a nice set of hole saws in a handy dandy little cardboard box. I think you need a 9/16ths or 5/8ths cutter.

The Cap'n

*sigh*

Thanks all for the comments.

Cap'n, once I drill the locks, what do I use to remove the remaining sleeve that will be left on the stud?

Thanks Again -
Scott S

Hang on hang on. Before you go banging on it like a monkey with a hammer. Take some clay or wax and make an impression. Take that to a machine shop in your area and see if they can make you a key. I did a few of them back in the 80s that way. I also made a set for my 2.0 fuchs that were bolts.

I would make a key because you probably have 3 more locks?

With out a key I would try the over tork methed , before moving on. Vanagon rear nuts are steel.


If you are going to drill, Drill the stud! start with a 1/4 dia and go bigger from there. Studs are cheap and easy to replace. Use a center drill to start and take your time.

good luck

Don't worry Cap'n, throw up your hands and walk away... they'll figure it out.

Just a note, I'd be willing to bet that lock is a lot softer metal and easier to drill than the stud. Check your options. If they have a perfect pattern to work from it would be easy for a machine shop to put hardened pins into a steel hex bar that size, but I'd also bet the cost and time would be a lot more than a hole drill and/or a new stud.

I have this set (used on the 911) and never had any problem with it over a lot of years. But it's only for those that stick carefully to the proper torque and I always put some grease on the mating surfaces just like on the other lug nuts. Here's mine.

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To get another key I remember that I would've had to call the company with my code to get another one made. It was (of course) a lockable glove box or hidden thing.

The sleeve simply unscrews from the stud, and my pins are definitely pressed into the key.

Just remembered that I believe Rich Bontempi (High Performance House, Redwood City, California) sold me this set and might remember the manufacturer if that helps.

How NOT to do it..

I was poking at them a bit this morning - I am surprised at how soft they are. I brought one of the "fake" lug nuts with me to work today and will be heading over to pick up a hole saw at lunch. The Cap'n has steered me through other issues, so my trust level is huge (it is my talent level with a hole saw that is very concerning!).

One last question - per your picture Pcar916, how does the system work? I obviously see the lock and the key - what is that threaded sleave used for?

Thansk again all -
Scott S

If the 2 holes are too far apart, maybe drill 2 holes in the base?

The Cap'n is tellin you true.
Get a hole saw that just fits over the stud, remove the guide drill by loosening the set screw on the side of the tool.
Let the stud guide the hole saw. Watch carefully. You will be detaching the cup part of the nut. That is what holds the wheel tightly to the flange.
I've used this method since the early '80s. It works and it is EASY. With care it will not damage the wheel. It is very effective on Porsche brand wheel locks which are aluminum. If your lock is steel it should work but will take longer.
I'm glad to see others know of it as well.
It is effective and does no damage.
No need to re-invent the wheel.

Have you called the guy that sold you the car?

I would suggest going to Harbor frieght and getting a set of bent end needle nose pliers...
Use a torch to bend them right, and a grinder to get the pins right...they try to get it loose with those.

I am not a great fan of using a hole saw in that situation.

Make/borrow a key from someone and make the pattern correct for yours, then use that.

Rich

The hole saw method sounds good if you can't fine the 'key' laying around somewhere.

I had to make a tool similar to that (for removing some 'tamper-proof' screws on a real old fire alarm water flow sensor), but it only had two pins and no torque to speak of. We replaced the funky screws with Phillips type screws.

I would drill and tap several holes and then put some fasteners in it with something that can turn them. Might be as fast as a hole saw, though.

The threaded sleeve was a design change meant to hold the key snugly against the lock in an attempt to prolong the life of the setup. It kinda works, but not if the lock is overtightened. I think 50 ft/lbs is the recommended torque.

The Cap'n

90ft/lb is standard for the lug nuts. Is the lock nut different?

I had the same set years ago. I bought them from Automotion when they were in Santa Clara. The torque was 50 pounds. I remember taking my car to Otto's years later and the first thing he did was take them off and throw them away. He then installed the Porsche wheel locks. Another fond memory of the no bull shift style of JW.

The Cap'n got the parts right. The sleeve (threaded on the inside, smooth on the outside) fits into the smooth bore of the "key". In other words;

The "key", which looks like a lug nut has a smooth bore that the sleeve fits into. The whole assembly gets screwed into place driving the small, ring tight onto the wheel. The little rings are radius'd just like the lug nuts.

Torque? I always torqued them to the same spec as the other lug nuts... didn't see any instructions otherwise. The separate stud covers didn't need to be torqued to anywhere near that.

Then you removed the sleeve by itself, pull off the key, and screw on a cover that goes over the stud and the pin holes, and makes it look like the other lug nuts. Those stud covers aren't shown in my picture but like the rest, there is one per wheel. The only parts in your glove box are the key and sleeve.

It's a lot of parts but is a much more solid fastening system than some of the others I've seen.

The threaded sleeve helped hold the key in place, to help prevent the pins from being sheared off. That's another reason the torque value was 50 pounds to also help prevent the pins from being sheared off. I also had problems with the pins falling out of the key.

Got them off! I had to use a touch bigger hole saw, as the inside diameter of the 5/8 was two small to get over the stud. When all was said and done, I used a dewalt 3/4". Scared me to death to do this - but, thanks a million Cap'n for the how to. Very little/minor damage to the wheel insert.
I had to use a very sharp chisel to snap the remaining material that was on the stud. I will need to chase the threads for sure.

Does anyone know the thread size/pitch of a 911 wheel stud?

Here are some pics. Also did some serious scrubbing on the wheel wells. Goota love fresh paint.

Thanks again so much Cap'n -
Scott S

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14mm x 1.5

Looks beautiful - but is the bottom of the strut still dirty?

I would take a pattern off the lug with some clay and make a key with some roll pins and 3/8" flat bar. Drill a center hole, drill the pattern, weld a piece of pipe to the flat bar to slide over the stud, weld an old lug nut to the pipe. Insert the roll pins, cut them to length, over torque the other 4 nuts, remove the locking lug.

Lots of work but if you can't find the lock it will save your wheel.

Edit, didn't check the second page Glad you got it!