Well I finished epoxy primering the 914. The next step will be to mount onto the chassis table, take some twist measurements and start building the tube chassis. I will be replacing the entire floor. It's just too banged up and rusty to mess with. I will also be removing almost the entire rear half. The entire rear half will be in steel tube and rear half of the body will be bolted to the tube chassis. Found 4 rust areas that I will need to repair. That can wait as they are not in the way of the tube chassis.

Well CSDilligaf came over today and we did the twist testing on the 914. The final numbers are in! The 996 C4 Cabriolet has stiffness of 4,568 '#/Degree. The 914 has a stiffness of 3,326 '#/Degree. So the 996 C4 Cabriolet is 37% stiffer in torsion than the 914. Makes sense, since you'd think that the newer Porsche should be stiffer than the 914, which was built with technology of the 60's. The next step is to place the 914 on the suspension nest and start building the tube frame. I was thinking of stiffening the longs with the Engmann kit, but I'm steering away from that. I will be stiffening the "longs" with a truss system built inside of the longs. That will be the first order of work. I will twist test again at that point and see what improvement we get.

Why not give Engman a call and see if they will give you a kit to test with? I know if I was the manufacturer I would want to know what it did. Im sure he would give you a kit for free.... Most of us run the Engman kit and I for one am curious what real world difference it makes.

Engman passed away...

Wow that is sad to hear that Engman passed away. My condolences to his family.

As far as trying to see how well the Engman works (inside reinforcing) or Mayeur (outside reinforcing), bring your car over and we will twist it. Have to wait until I'm done with my car though. I'm in Murrieta Ca. It's about 1 hour north of San Diego and about 1:15 hours South of Los Angeles. PM me and we can discuss.

Steel for chassis is coming in tomorrow. Going to build 6 turnbuckle braces to square up driver compartment before I get started. Should have nest in place this week as well. Let the chassis building begin.

Well..........this officially marks the point of no return. Up to this point the 914 could have easily been turned into a restored stock......but now the fork in the road has been reached and I'm taking the "road less traveled". Started to cut up the engine and transmission well. Planning on installing nest tomorrow and will start with "upgrading" the longs first. I couldn't believe how much sand was in the longs. The left long had about a large coffee can of sand in it. I don't know where it could come from since the left did not have any corrosion. On the other hand the right long, the one with the hell hole, that one only had about a up of sand in it? You would expect it to be the other way around. Also, the left long had some fibrous cotton like material inside of it? Anybody have an idea what this is?

So,it's true then,all 914s rust from the inside out,as well as outside in!
They get it from all sides,every direction.
The material found inside is the stuff that absorbs the moisture,inflicting it on the unprotected steel.
The horror.

That cutting and chopping with the plasma is what I've had in mind for the minor stretch,to accommodate the longer engines.
This is getting interesting.Kudos.


/

Thanks veekry9. After seeing the "surface" rust inside of the longs......I would encourage everyone to stick some of the Eastwood internal frame coating inside. These things rust from the inside out as well as the outside in.

The 914 chassis (body) is full of strategically placed weep holes; as such, I suspect moisture and small debris enter through them and start the corrosion process...over many years, of course.


Andys

The heater tubes inside the longs are non-metallic and insulated. My guess is the tube in the left long is broken / deteriorated. So any sand that went in the left rear or cabin heater tubes didn't leaked out of the internal tube and went into the long. On the right long the sand went through the tube and out the other end.

I taped the heater tubes so that sand would not get it. It had to get in there some other way.....and I'm not exaggerating when I say that it was enough to fill a large coffee can.

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Flips flops and a pressure washer you know if that water/air gets in your blood vains your gonna be really sick if not died ...just say n

Safety first fella! when have a family its not just about you

very cool project looking forward to the end results

MikeC

[quote name='6freak' date='Sep 16 2016, 02:24 PM' post='2399343']
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Flips flops and a pressure washer you know if that water/air gets in your blood vains your gonna be really sick if not died ...just say n

Safety first fella! when have a family its not just about you

very cool project looking forward to the end results

MikeC
[/quote]

Hey 6freak You're right thank you for the flogging. Point taken. I promise i'll never do it again and post it.

Hey Cracker but yes safety first. Anyway I completed gutting out the rear (phase 1). Phase 2 will be remove the inner fender well weld rear deck lid in place and cut quarter panels and make it tilt back for easy maintenace I also removed the warm air tubes and boy was that tough. They are basically two dryer vent tubes withing each other and insulated with cotton. With the air tubes out I was able to remove all of the sand from the longs. Unbelievable amount of sand. Now I know why they say that you will never get all of the sand out!! In my case I did though. I'm also going to take the opportunity to treat the inside of the longs to that eastwood rust converter. I'm hoping to install suspension jig later today and then start reinforcing the longs with the truss idea.

This is what I'm thinking of for trussing the longs.

996 SUSPENSION NEST MEETS 914......WELL HELLO THERE

Little update. I've been cleaning up the firewall before I install the tubes. I'm hoping to start bending and notching this weekend.

Well I was able to insert some of the reinforcement for the longs.

DISCLAIMER: Do not attempt to duplicate anything that is mentioned or illustrated in the entirety of this thread. I do not make any warranties of any kind. If you try to build what I am doing, you take full risk. Do not try this. It may be dangerous to your health and may get you killed

I'd call those loose ends....

Tony

Well I've been bending and nothching the chassis. I made jig to be able to notch greater than 45 degrees. I have some tubes that need 70 degree bends. I hope to be able to complete the a and b pillar hoops this week. Then it's time to tie the a and b hoops to the front and rear suspension. I was really pleased with the nothching at steep angles. Came out really tight.

I see Progress. I all most stopped by to check in on the way back from the Pomona Car Swap. The oblong holes are for the truss pieces?

Looks great. I'd love to see this in person some day too...

-Steve

Looks really nice...and to think I thought this might of been a pipe dream originally - you were actually dreaming of pipe! Keep us posted...

Tony

Yes


No problem. PM me I'll give you my cell number. You can only come if you show up in your 914 though. Unless of course it's on jackstnads.

Well I entered the 2017 Build off Challenge. Let's see how it goes.

Well I finally finished bending the A and B pillars. The A pillar was tough! I had to measure, try, measure, try, measure, try......then screw up and try again.

The cage is looking great! I know what you mean about "measure, bend, try again."
I'm sure you're on top of this but the critical factor for me seems to be ensuring the tube doesn't creep as the bend starts. Well, that and being sure I'm bending the correct end of the tube! (Ask me how I know...)

Keep up the great work and lots of pics.
I need a regular fix!

That cage is looking awesome Rudy! Are you using a JD2 bender?

Since you're MIG welding it might not help too much, but it has helped me while TIG welding so I thought I'd share...Apologies in advance if you've heard this before, etc.

If you drill a small hole at each tube junction so the whole cage is one single volume, you can back purge and the quality of the welds is much nicer. Even without purging, the holes let any of the smoke from oil in the tubes move so you don't get any blowouts from pressure buildup while heating and the welds tend to be cleaner.

I just did a roll hoop for a Miata and used 1/2" conduit to form the outer edge of the hoop.. Might be cheaper to grab some conduit than messing up that nice DOM?

Andrew, so you used the conduit to make a test piece? I'm a bit confused by your statement.

Yes, sorry. Conduit for test piece, then .120 wall DOM tubing for the actual hoop. I can see your confusion

Makes perfect sense now.

Thanks for the compliment. I'm using the JD2 model 32 bender and tube creep was never an issue. Do you have something other than a JD2 bender.




Hey Jim....yes JD2 model 32. That's good advice on the back purging. I will save that for when I do the headers. Yes you're right I'm MIG welding the frame so no back purging required.

Yes that is a good suggestion. I ruined 2 hoops (the rear "easy one")l, but I just need to cut the bends off and then I have material for the webs. But yes after I ruined two hoops I learned the error of my ways and was able to do the A pillar hoop in one try. If you notice the A pillar hoop is complex in that it has an offset bend and it also has a slight arch that follows the roof line. That arch is not in the plane of the windshield it is twisted about 47 degrees from the plane of the windshield. It was tricky but I did it and am satisfied with the result.

I was always taught to drill tubes when welding, otherwise you run the risk of making it a pressurized vessel and it may blow out. Molten Metal is not a fun shower.

Do you guys back purge more than just Stainless

Here are my rules for back purging from the old school welders I used to work with (these were aircraft welders who only wire brushed in one direction, degrease before and after brushing, etc.):

- 100% of the time if TIG welding carbon steel, stainless, or titanium tubing (just as you would if welding piping or pressure vessels).
- No back purging for aluminum tubing
- Typically no back purging for MIG welding, though it does help on thin tubing. If someone else is paying for the gas absolutely back purge.

Sorry for the hijack Rudy.

No highjacking just good information for those that are following the thread. And yes, I agree no need to backpurge for mig on mild steel. Also, I have never heard of the situation where the tube becomes a pressure vessel? Wow that is amazing and I am having a hard time believing it. One would think that the conditions for it would have to be a one in a million. It's possible but not probable, practically speaking.

While certainly not pressure vessel grade, I've had melt blowout problems with smaller sealed tubes while TIGing. We're talking about 1" tubing of about a foot or little longer length. While not dangerous it's certainly inconvenient.

Well completed trussing the long on the right side. Material is all cut for the left side....that is next. I love the look that it's getting. I also removed the center tunnel. That is going to get some extra special treatment . It will add tremendous stiffness to the chassis.

Nice and tight tube notching and fitment you did there Rudy. That should really stiffen things up.

Ok finished other side. Next step is to tie front and rears to new strut towers. Ohhhh...I'm lengthening wheelbase by 2 inches

While adding long reinforcement I noticed this stress crack in the long.

Whats your thinking behind the placement of those upper bars connecting the front and rear hoops?

Im concerned that they are placed too far inward which could put them directly over the drivers head instead of off to the side. Is there a reason you haven't placed them off to the corners? Theres not a lot of headroom for drivers & passengers as it is in these cars, you might consider putting them as far off to the corners as possible.

Loving the build so far, keep the pictures coming!

2 inch wheelbase lengthening? That would be awesome.. That would really increase the stability at your power level.

Good eye Michigan! Actually they are place holders for right now. I will only add them if the twist test shows an appreciable improvement in torsional stiffness.




Yes, the lengthening came about from thinking how this would give me a better straight line stability. Two inches is a number that I can sneak in and still look like a regular teener. This gives me more room in the engine compartment and allows the cv axles to line up better with the transaxle.

That would be wonderful...my drive flange to hub centerline is 2.6" - a 2" increase would be ideal. With a little massaging - I will be able to retrieve about 1". Jealous.

T

You gonna tell 'em about the other 2" mod or is that classified? Kent

That i s"HIGHLY" classified