Those of you on the 911 lists and boards are probably getting tired of my asking similar questions but I'll ask anyway. I'm looking for an mildly entertaining daily driver to replace my aging Golf VR6. I started looking at 928s, but decided that the maintenance and upkeep would put me in the poor house or at least limit my 914 project spending. Early 911s are out because I want 3 point rear belts for the kids (the 1-2 times per month they actually ride in my car) plus ABS, and airbags. I thought I wanted a 964 C4, but after doing more serious searches, I found some reasonable prices of 993s and even high mileage 996 Carreras. Even the 968 is looking interesting as it has some usable hatch space, not that it's a priority with the wife getting a Suburban soon. Please give me your feed back after reviewing my list. I'm asking my 914 pals because I feel as a whole, you're not as bias toward a particular car like many on the 911 lists. I already know that Mike Z voted for a 968 Cab.

Criteria:
Safe, modern, daily driver. Mostly a one person car but may see 2 adults and/ or 2 small children on very rare occasions. Not looking to infringe on 914 project budget with high maintenance. No track performance needed, nor upgrade potential as it'll be CW original. I'm leaning toward Tip equipped cars as I drive in heavy interstate traffic daily.

Cars:
'03 MINI Cooper S
'90-'94 964 Coupe/Targa C2/C4 Man/Tip, open to best example, lower mileage.
'95-96 993 C2 Coupe Man/Tip, probably some flaws, higher mileage
'99 996 C2 Coupe Man/Tip, high mileage
'94-'95 968 Coupe/Cab Man/Tip lower mileage preferred.

Thoughts, sneers, suggestions and comments welcome.

TIA,

I vote for the 968. My Father-In-Law has a '94 coupe with sport suspension and I love that car. Six speed and lightning fast 3.0. Back seats are really only kiddie seats, and the storage space in rear hatch is great when the seats are folded down. He sometimes goes "Garage Saling" in it on weekends.

-Have Fun
Mike D.

I'd second the 968
It should be cheaper to buy than a 964 C2 or 4
Has the same modern comforts you are looking for as the 964 or 993
Run absolutely fabulous. Good performance (not much less than a 964)
The handling isn't as tricky as that of a 911, so you can send the wife out without needing to worry (and/or the wife will feel comfortable to drive the car)
Comes with a 6 speed gearbox (or as a tiptronic, if that's what you like)
Looks very good IMO and isn't such a common bird either

Good luck choosing!

cheers,

Jeroen

If you want the same driving experience as a Porsche and want more room, try out a BMW M3 or a E34 M5. I've owned an older '88 E28 M5 and about a year ago, picked up a low mileage '92 E34 M5 and it's every bit as quick as a 911-993. Power, braking and handling is outstanding. 311HP 0-60 in 6.2 sec. Revs to 7grand and the lumply exaust note is addicting. They are four valve engines that sing. Both cars have been very reliable too. DH

You could just replace your Golf with one of these ...

why do you think the 928 will be so expensive to maintain? I had an '89 928GT and that car is simply awesome. didn't have it long term, but I drove it 15k miles with no issues at all. I had the car pre-purchase inspected at devek before buying. that car would be your best choice for a cruiser with top performance. for the price you're looking to pay on your list you could even get a nice '94-'95 GTS.

I also had a '95 993, and while a lot of fun, it's not the best all in one kinda car. there is no space at all. I know that doesn't seem important now, but once you've got one you notice all the little things.

but my current car would be my first choice, a '03 VW GTi VR6 24 valve 6 speed. 200HP, no worry of repair bills, great gas mileage, interior space, cheaper insurance, and $24.5k new and fully loaded.

won't you be driving in snow??

Are you stuck on a P-car?

Go test drive a Jeep Wrangler... find out if you like it, then pick up one that's a couple years old with no off-road time.

-Rusty

Based on your list...

Mini Cooper S - I'd love one of those. I already have a P-car. I like to mix it up.

a 968 is a sooped up 944/924 right? bigger engine, someone post a pic please

Thanks for the input so far. My fear in buying a 968 is that it's not a 911. I do want to own a tail dragger so I can go to wine and cheese parties. I thought I liked the 964, but now I'm not so sure. I've seen 993s and 996s for around $30k. I know they're not the top of the barrel, but shouldn't be too bad. For several days last week I chased down a 944 cab (nice blonde driver!!) and really like the look. The 968 would just give me all of the goodies I want. I am surprised that a 4 cyl will perform like a 6. Several years ago, I vowed not to buy a car with less than 6 cylinders, but maybe it's time too look. I really need to take one for a drive.

After driving the MINI, it's not high on my list but has many plus'. Good Performance (for a four - see above comment), nice handling, warrenty, and no DAPO issues. On the down side, I'm not sure if the car was "me". Also the dealer wasn't a pleasure to deal with.

In no way will I buy another VW or VW product. I like to keep cars for quite some time and IMO VW doesn't have staying power. Sure, when the cars are new, they're great, but they don't age well at all. Hell, I sold dozens VWs in the years I was working at a dealership. Some cars were good, others were service nightmares. Mine are closer to the later.

A jeep? I thought about it for awhile, but it's not me. If I still lived in Maine, I might have bought one, but not where I am now. I did like a friends Toyota Land Cruiser (mid '70s) though.

BMWs are on my look list. I've often thought about an M3. I just may need to visit the M center near me.

This is a 968...

This shirt and the others I've shown in the classifieds section will be going on ebay this week if no one here is interested in them.


Thanks again y'all. Keep the ideas an opinions coming. I don't have my own anymore, I'm married.

Weak! You gotta get the soccer mom vans.



I think it depends on you budget. You listed cars between $20K to $60K. + or - $$.

If I were you, on your list, I'd go 993.

What's it doin on the list then?

If I were to get another P-car, I'm a 993 fan. (Or a Boxster, but that's not for you)

I drive a 993 daily and have no regrets.

Maintenance is costly though. Figure on oil changes every 5k at $300, brakes every 30k at $1800, 15k maintenance at $1000, tires every 10K at $1000.

Plan on spending lots of time to find the right car (don't settle). The pros of a '95 are no Varioram, cons - the harness recall.

All the costs aside, I love my car. After 2 1/2 years, I still enjoy going to work 22 miles each way. Its a fun car to drive really fast.

Good luck!

I don't think the local gas station sells Race Fuel for that van.

Dave,
have you considered the 944 Turbo (951)?
I know the 'newest' model is now 13-14 yrs old, but hey,
some of our 914s are 33yrs old, right?


Btw: what year VW Golf VR6 do you have?
I've been looking for one for myself.

What's been your experience with your VR6?


Thanks

there's one 76 station near my friend's place, not far from my house, that sells 96 octane, I think, at the pump.

Buy a real Porsche the 993.


Bill Lynes
84 911
74 914
95 525I
93 525I
93 Range Rover
83 300D

That's what happens when I go to bed early... so many messages, but where to begin?

Ginter, The mini is still on the list because it represents a value of being a decent new car and all the good that goes with it. For $30k (the higher end of my budget) I can get a nice optioned out car and not need to worry about any repairs till it's paid for. And that is my biggest fear in buying a used car, especially a used Porsche. Keep in mind, I only bought three cars in my life and two were new, the third being the 914. The 993 is only on my list because I have seen a few down toward the lower $30s. Same with the 996, but that one would be very questionable.

cavwpguy, As I stated above, the 993s in my price range may be a little rougher and with higher miles. On the other hand, The numbers you quoted don't sound too bad. Shoot, I almost pay that with the GTI. Thanks for posting, that info should help greatly.

AnAllOutRacer, I had once thought about the 951, but they are lacking the safety items I need. If I were looking for more toy than driver, it would be on my list of must sees.
My GTI is a '95 which I bought new. It is milking me dry with upkeep. Warrenty replaced the motor twice due to a spun bearing. I've also replaced the AC compressor due to a seized pully, various pullies and serpentine belts. Electrically, I've done the gauge pod, window regulators and various grounding wires. The car is now showing as much rust as my 914, though it doesn't have the holes. I'm tired of dropping $500-$1500 for every visit to the dealer, and I don't trust outside mechanics with this car. I also own a '96 Passat TDI (the wife's). It too has way too many issues. Mechanically it's much better, but electrically, it too is a PITA. Also, the paint is about the same quality as budget American cars. I sold these cars for three years and know a lot about them. With that knowledge, I won't buy another. Too bad too, because they are fun affordable cars. Leasing is the only way to go with VW though.

Maybe I need to get a reality check. I may be trying to get too much for too little.

Thanks,

Get a low mileage SC....zoom it up with a 3.6 engine transplant...be the envy of your friends....

I have a buddy who just bought a Nissan Murano.

I drove it. It's damn nice. I wanna get that sucker up on jackstands to see if I could shoehorn that CVT into my Ghia. . .

I've got a Boxster now.

To be really, really honest, I'm not that overly happy with it. I've had three oil leaks (cam cover bolts and main seal), one of the litronic headlights has burned out multiple times, I have a f-ing expansion valve problem with the A/C so my car sings during hot days, and they cannot get a wheel vibration problem fixed at all. Even with brand new Bridgestone SO3 tires.

And it's not practical. We have a Suburban for my son and all of his medical equipment, but as far as another car (besides the 914), I'd go with something with more than two seats (or at least two tiny back seats like the 911).

My next car is probably going to be a Mercedes E500. The teener for weekends and fun runs, and the Suburban for the wife, kid, and dog.

Regards,

Wow, good choice! If I could afford it, that's the car I'd buy (or maybe the AMG version).

I fell in love with the looks of the new E-class cars (finally something that didn't seem so MB-like on the inside). We drove one a few weeks ago. WOW! The V8 in that car was the older AMG V8 that was in the E-class AMG lineup. That thing pulled like a mother. And it's a very heavy and safe car.

I do a lot of highway driving to and from work at higher speeds. (Actual speeds have been deleted to protect the innocent). So I want something that I can cruise with on the highway.

The Boxster is noisy, but sporty. Try driving 75 in the interstate in a mid-summer Florida downpour. Heck the 914 is quieter than the Boxster in the rain. And don't mention heavy thunderstorms. There's something about a huge bolt of lightning cracking down beside the highway and blowing out your eardrums through the Boxster convertible top. I know I'm safe in the car, but it seems a little too personal.

Whenever I have a client visiting from out of town, it sucks drying to fit their luggage in a Boxster. So I will try the Mercedes car next (about 12 months from now actually).

I always stick with the German cars. (Once I digressed and had a Dodge Ram 1500, but country was cool back then too!). I've owned four 914s, one VW Scirocco 16valve, two VW Passats, a BMW 328is, a Dodge Ram () and a Boxster. Do you notice a theme here?

"The pros of a '95 are no Varioram"?? I would want the Var-cam 20+ extra horses on a 96 vs. a 95. I would go with the 993, the last of the oil-cooled 911’s. 996’s worry me on how long they will last. 964 are bastard cars. They are unloved, and many had problems with the engines leaking.

True, but don't you think they would have been fixed by now? I couldn't imagine the car getting transfered from owner to owner with these problems, besides, it was just the first few years and many had been fixed under warrenty.

The early 993's (some) had/have issues with the wiring harness...I'd rather leak oil now and then instead of seeing my car go up in flames


Up until this weekend I thought my '91 C2 was okay, but now after doing the auto-x school in it, I love the car and I look forward to driving the car even more now.

I'd like to drive a 968 to see how they drive, I've driven 951's before and I wouldn't want one for a daily driver, all the inputs are too stiff for a comfortable commute; IMHO

Now the 993 does drive nicer (softer, quiter, well, compared to mine, but my 964 is lowered with 17" rims as well) than the 964 and with the hyd. lifters, no valve adjustment is needed.

I'd lean towards a 993 Tip for a daily driver, unless you prefer the lines of the 964 Tip (classic look with plastic bumpers)

I know out here there are tons of 964/993 Cab. Tips for sale, more so than coupe/sticks.

I was never much of a MB fan. Except for the gullwing, and similar year Cab, I just don't like the looks. They are too big for my tastes.

After taking the 914/6 to work daily for the past few days, I think a Porsche is the way to go. I just like the feel. I also think a Tip may be in order. Traffic into Boston is a real PITA. I''m not sure about getting a Cab, or even a Targa as I'd be afraid I wouldn't like to drive the 914 anymore. I started looking at the 964s because the prices were low (unloved) and they have all the safety goodies I need. Now, if I could find a 993 for a similar price, I'd go that direction. Can a 993 realistically be had for $30k or less and still be reliable? If not, then it's back to the 964 (or 968 if I can find one to test drive).

If you're going to be looking for something fun, but yet have space go for a Mistu Evo 8 or a Subaru WRX Sti. Both are new to the U.S. market and have incredible pickup and cornering ability. Not too sure about the comfort of daily commute, but reviews for it say that seats are comfy and its a great deal. Both priced at around 30K and can out corner and out perform most older 911's. I'm not saying to ditch the Porsche idea, but both are Japanese made and, well, they are always reliable cars. If you can get a 964 or 993 for that price, me personally, would go for one of the Jap cars since I already have a Porsche in the fleet and the new car will be under a good warranty. You should go test drive both and see how they feel. My $.02

I think the new E 500 is the best looking cars in its class. It has a drag coefficient of only 0.27 and at 0 to 60 mph in 5.8 seconds it would smoke all but the most modified 914 in a stop light race.

you're not going to find a good 993 for less than $30k, it's going to be a high mileage, accident, abused car (even then more than $30k).

I'm not questioning your bad experiences with VWs but our family has owned three water-cooled VWs and I can honestly say that we haven't had one serious mechanical problem (other than regular wear and tear items like brakes) with them. The only serious problem was a '77 Rabbit that I owned that developed a rust hole under the driver's seat but that car sat out in the rain for years.

yeah I don't know, I'm on my 4th watercooled VW.

'82 rabbit
'89 jetta (did a MI to CA to FL to MI trip)
'96 jetta
'03 GTi

the first 3 were great cars, hoping for the same luck with #4. the '96 jetta is actually owned by my friend still. he's about has bad as you can get with maintaining a car and that thing is over 100k miles and not a single issue to date.

Speaking of VWs, their 1.8 L turbocharged four is on Ward's "10 Best Engines 2003" list http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/Microsite...d=1004&srtype=1. The VR6 was on the list some years back.

Volkswagen AG 1.8L turbocharged DOHC I-4

By Bill Visnic

WardsAuto.com, Jan 3 2003


Talk about staying power: the Volkswagen AG/Audi AG 1.8L turbocharged I-4 has been a frequent visitor to Ward's 10 Best Engines list since its launch in 1998, and that’s a tough thing for any 4-cyl. engine to accomplish.

It’s just that no matter which six of our ever-changing group of editor/judges gets its hands on this unique 5-valve-per-cylinder gem, each returns virtually wide-eyed from the previous day’s test drive. Volkswagen engineers have crafted a 4-cyl. engine with that kind of appeal.



This powerhouse returns for yet another 10 Best Engines win by serving up a tasty 100 hp/L combined with a grin-inducing torque shove of 175 lb.-ft. (236 Nm) delivered in a juicy, wide band from 1,950 rpm to 5,000 rpm courtesy of the light-pressure turbocharger.

Of course there’s a bit of turbo lag, but you really have to be looking for it. Learn how to work with this engine, and it simply shines. That’s partly to do with the long-stroke design, which really helps the VW 1.8L – a microscopically sized engine in this market – pull like a much larger powerplant.

In fact, until VW/Audi upgraded its now-3L DOHC V-6, many Ward's editors preferred the 1.8L turbo to the more-powerful-on-paper V-6.

Volkswagen’s markedly improved this engine since its ’98 launch at 150 hp and 155 lb.-ft. (210 Nm) of torque, to the point where it’s making a totally satisfying 180 hp even in mainstream models such as the Golf.

Bravo for that kind of thinking, VW. While domestic auto makers seem to craft ever-larger, lowbrow engines for ever-larger trucks, you’ve continually improved a power-dense 4-cyl. that enhances the driving experience through its sheer exuberance.

This is a technically sophisticated, premium-engineered engine that’s available to those in the lower market segments – and that’s our idea of powertrain democracy.

bvisnic@primediabusiness.com

But VW's are known for their electrical problems which can be a bitch to fix. My friend once got a brand new Jetta IV (the ones out now) and her windows and sunroof both went out in a matter of 2 weeks after she drove it off the lot. She returned it and got a Camaro Don't know why?

Oh the MB E500 is pretty sweet too. Out of the price range. You know what is really nice a 03 or 04 CL55 AMG, saw one in Graphite Grey w/ a HOT ass chick driving it. Made my day...the car that is.

All the 993 motors have VarioCam. The 96 and on have VarioRam- a new induction system which adds some HP but according to a local Porsche mechanic adds maintenance and reliability issues. The 95 wiring harness is a completely free fix from the factory at any dealership in the US.

I know the Porsche faithful love 993s as the last oil / air cooled 911 but I like the 996s especially the 2003. I figure if you can put your faith in Porsche, you can put your faith in the 996.

Muellers 964 is a great ride as well. I think the 964 is undervalued because of the popularity of the 911 before it, and the 993 after it. Find a good example with the well documented engine issues solved, and you will have a car that will serve you well.

As far as a 993 under $30k? I hope it never happens, but it will. Be patient. Anything worth having is worth waiting for.

My 1994 Jetta has been pretty bulletproof. I've got 125K on the odometer now and I've only needed a few minor repairs (door pin switch, cam position sensor (distributor), fan switch, one radiator hose, and the thermostat. I've done all the repairs and most tuneups myself. I like the cars because they seem easy to work on.

If you liked the idea of a "performance hatch" like your GTI.. i might suggest picking up a used 318ti and dropping a M3 six in it. You probably dont want another prject.. but its a simple swap and thats my driver!

For about $30k, you can get a very nice, Used, Audi S4.

AWD
Twin-Turbo 6
Beautiful Interior

Tip trans (i think)


And when the day arrives to Upgrade the Audi Turbo's, you'll
have two TO3's, one for your 914 & one to sell!!!