I disconected the positive (and neg) cables. Reconnected, and now the car wont start. The dash lights and fuel pump come on, headlights are bright, battery is fully charged, but no click or anything. I checked all of the fuses under the steering wheel and 3 of them on the firewall by the battery and all are good.
Are there other fuses that I am missing? SHe has always fired up, really frustrated....

My starter used to do the same thing,(have a different starter now)every time I would disconnect the battery starter wouldn't work, I would smack it with a big wrench, then it would start right up....until I disconnected the battery again. Never found out why, just put in a different starter when I put in the new motor... All good.

Try tapping on it, then turn the key

Hope this helps
Jeff

Are you sure you connected back the ground wire to the transmission and the positive going to the starter back?

I havent touched the transmission at all. All I did was disconnect and reconnect the battery. Going to go out and hit with a wrench now..

That did nothing. Its got to be something with the battery. Is it possible to blow a fuse by fewling with the battery cables?

Partially fried ignition switch?

Possible that the ignition switch is broken. Been there, done that, and yes, it can happen just like that. Could be just coincidence yours broke before you unhooked the starter. Have you ever replaced yours?

Chances are someone will come along with a better idea though

The ground wire and that positive starter wire are usually bolted on the terminal and sometimes comes apart as you disconnect the battery.

The ground wires near the battery seem tight. Should the solenoid be getting juice with the car on, or only when starting?

Reach in and tap the solenoid (lightly).

try hitting it again, maybe have someone turn the key while you hit the starter. I'd try this before tearing into ignition switches and other stuff.

Jeff

Did you clean the battery cables and battery terminals?

Both can and do get glazed over with time. It is possible you have a bad connection even if it is tight. Use a wire brush or sand paper on all connections and try again.

That's what I was going to suggest. Clean both the posts and the insides of the connector clamps. I prefer using one of those little brush/scraper tools that's made for it.

A majority of the time when you have some electrical working but it won't crank, and especially if you hear a starter solenoid click, a dirty battery connection is the culprit.

Its the gremlinector.

The starter is not clicking, the lights on the dash are on, but when i turn the key, they all go out and nothing happens. I'm sure there has to be something disconnected somewhere.... I'm also going to put in the battery from my daily driver and try as well..
Really need to get this thing started, we are moving in a couple of weeks.

Turn the headlights on, then try to start the car. If they also go out, you are dealing with either:
1. Dirty connections (Which the cleaning would fix)
or
2. Dead battery (could need charging or replacement).

You saying the lights go out is a telltale sign that the voltage drops significantly when you try to start it.

Do the cleaning and try again.

I hope this helps.

This was my first thought as well. My second thought was, All the accessories and lights, always go out when turning the key to the start position. I think its built that way. Easy to check voltage on battery.

Have you tried to jump the solenoid?

OK. Just checked again. Put the battery from my Toyota in it, and nothing. Red and Green dash lights come on, fuel pump comes on, when I turn the key, red and green lights stay on, nothing happens. No click from the starter..
Should the small red wire in this picture: starter

be hot when the key is on? It is not, but the large on is.

Hard to tell from just a picture, but it sure looks like the small red one should be hot with ignition on, like you said. The large red is constant 12V.

If that doesn't get you going in the right direction, you could go back to my hypothesis that the ignition switch itself is bad. Try turning the key over to the other side and then inserting it. Also try jiggling the key when you have it turned to "start."

Tried the key both ways, jiggled. I dont think its that because I've NEVER had a problem getting this car to turn over until I reconnected the battery. I also cleaned some oil that was pooled on the engine here, that had some wires nearby:

that got jiggled a bit.

But thats all it took to kill it.

When I had a similar problem, it was because the Red cable was corroded up inside the cable where the connecter is.

I removed the positive cable connector from the wire, cut back the corroded section of the wire to good copper, bought a $5 new positive connector, and when all hooked up, it started right up.

Just a thought, that it may be something simple....

That was my first thought just stick a screw driver across both terminals (what I would do)

But here's the right way for those scared of that:
1 - use an idiot light and see if you have voltage at the starter
2 - use the idiot light to see if you get voltage at the solenoid when someone turns the key

If yes to both, it is wired and you havent blown a fuse.
3 - Put a voltmeter across your battery while turning the key.
If voltage drops significantly (below ~11) then you have a bad battery or the starter/solenoid has a short.

If the voltage at the battery stays up (>12) the battery is good and your connection to the starter is poor
4 - Put a voltmeter across the starter while turning the key.
If it stays high, your starter is bad

HTH Stu

EDIT - just read where you are not even hearing a faint click, so #4 is unlikely (steps are still all good though)

1 and 2 are both getting power and I have tried 2 different batteries that I know are good. No idea how this shouldnt at least be clicking.

In that picture, the red wire is the starter crank wire. Notice it is connected to the yellow crank wire. Only hot while cranking. Do you have the same solenoid? If so try to connect the red wire (spade terminal) directly to the started spade terminal.

Does this work?

Do you have the seatbelt interlock relay under the passenger seat? The started wire is interrupted if the seatbelts are not engaged. This relay tends to go bad. If you have it, jumper the yellow and yellow/red wire together.

Does this work?

"In that picture, the red wire is the starter crank wire. Notice it is connected to the yellow crank wire. Only hot while cranking. Do you have the same solenoid? If so try to connect the red wire (spade terminal) directly to the started spade terminal.
"

The picture in the link is actually my car. I'm a bit confused about what you are asking, but will try to understand. The small red wire is hot only when cranking. The fat red wire from the battery to the starter is always hot. I do not have a yellow wire, but there are yellow plastic connectors. Are you saying to connect the small red wire to the same terminal as the large fat battery wire?

Thanks everyone for the help so far. If I cant get this started by Saturday, she's getting towed.

So this is what I know:

Battery is good
dash lights, fuel pump come on
Large wire to starter is hot
Small wire to little black box on starter is hot when cranking
other small brown wire on black box is always hot
all fuses that I can find are good.

maybe i need to beat the starter with a hammer? I tapped it with a socket wrench a bit, but probably could use more.

Check the condition of the 4 red wires' connectors at the positive battery connector and the condition of the wires. You were moving these around and if they haven't been replaced I can bet they are in need of replacing. Cut the wires back a small amount and crimp on new connectors. When I replaced mine, there were a lot of broken strands in the red wires = loss of current when needed.
Tom

The little black box is a ford starter relay. Simple way to see if the starter is good, jump the relay terminals ( larger ones). If starter turns, it is OK, relay may be bad or you are not getting proper voltage to relay to energize it, OR you may have a grounding issue. Check with an ohmmeter from the relay bracket to the trans, should be very close to 0 ohms.
Tom

I have had this happen to my car a number of times, to no solution that I have yet been able to find. I've replaced grounds, old wires, solenoids, and none of it seemed to change the car. But every, say 30th? time I drive the car, I've just gotta rock it a little bit.

Rock the car in gear, hard, or try and bump start it. No idea why, but this has fixed it nearly every time for me. Just rock it, then start it up as usual. Especially a MOFO when it wont start parked parallel...

Thanks guys, I will try both of all of these tonight. When you say "jump the relay terminals ", can you explain exactly how to do that?

It only takes a minute to jump the solenoid as suggested. One minute and you will rule out half of the troubleshooting process. Just make sure it's in neutral and get under there with a screwdriver and short from red to green arrow in this pic...

thank you Rand. I really didn't want to go dig out a starter for a pic.

Awesome! Thanks alot. So if it turns, that tells me the starter is good, and if not , then its (relay) just not getting enough juice from the battery?

Will let you guys know how it goes tonight.

I have had one of the smaller red wires fall down below the battery when disconnected! Check to see if there is a loan red wire lost under the battery!

To save your lifego to FLAPS and get a hand starter button for under $5 and try the starter. Clip the 2wires to the above red and green get out from under the car and push the button.

We can't afford to lose another Teener owner.

Will do

In my 71 Ghia, the ignition switch went out, I had to always start the car by climbing under it and jumping across those two terminals with a screwdriver every time.

I even once stalled it in LA on the 401 in rush hour traffic - pumped the gas once, left it out of gear, jumped out, layed beside the car and started it in 1 second (I knew where the terminals were by feel) got back in & drove away...

NOW STICK A SCREWDRIVER ACROSS THOSE TERMINALS ALREADY.

Yes there WILL be a spark if it is working, but the solenoid should engage and the starter should crank. Dont use your favorite snap-on ;-)

Stu

It worked! The starter turned and it sparked all to be damned. So this is telling me that the relay is bad, or its just not getting enough power because my red wires from the battery may be too crusty?

Just bypass that stupid relay. It's not supposed to be there anyway.

You should have a battery cable to the starter and a yellow wire. That's it!

Somewhere in Kentucky a 914 just roared back to life. THank you everyone, especially Rand and kg6dxn.
I bypassed the relay and she fired right up. In fact, she used to be hard to start, taking a few cranks of the ignition, but not anymore.
So why is this damn relay on here to begin with?!?! And why is my idle now at 800+ (which is normal?) instead of 1100ish?

Thanks again, wife thinks Im a total badass now.

We love happy ending here ! Glad you did it!

This is only the beginning.

So many people add band aids and it just complicates things and adds multiple extra connections. Simple good clean circuits work. If ever they don't, find out why instead of adding crap. (But beware, that's a flame war waiting to happen.)

Well, it ruled out a hell of a lot of troubleshooting crap for sure.

I think it is either a cracked ignition switch, or a bad connection at all that stupid seatbelt relay junk under your passenger seat. Which by the way, you can eliminate. Just cut all that crap out, join any brown wires (which are grounds) and don't worry about the rest, just make sure they are taped off so they can't touch anything.

The most IMPORTANT key is joining the connections to the starter circuit. Which means join the big yellow wires. THAT is all it needs.

Glad it worked!

The reason some add the relay back at the solenoid is that it reduces the current through your ignition switch.
It also gives the solenoid more "kick" because there is less voltage drop from having to go through all that wire to the steering column & back.

Stu

I know this is an area of debate, but eliminating the extra band aid relay and all the extra connections that go with it cleaned up my system and it's been fine since. Some previous owner added the band aid because he didn't know how to clean up the system and everyone told him to add an extra relay to fix it because that's what people said.

blah blah blah

Just clean up the system you have. Get rid of the stupid extra relay and all the extra connections and extra potential failure points that go with it.

Clean it up, simplify. Clean up what was there, and go with it.

asab

ericoneal,
Glad you found the reason why your car was not starting.
The reason why your car had the relay there is because some previous owner most likely had the dreaded hot-no-start problem many bugs and 914 develop as they age. The starting circuit is a long one with many connections and has a high demand on the battery voltage to initially close the solenoid. It takes close to 8.5 to 9 volts for the starter solenoid to close. Given that these cars are getting older, it is no surprise that more and more have starting issues. Electrical components, wires included, increase resistance over time and especially when heat is applied. Since a large part of the electrical system is in the engine bay, it gets a lot of heat. Resistance in the connections and wire causes voltage drop in the circuit. When it reaches 3-4 volts drop, the solenoid won't operate and you have the dreaded hot-no-start issues.
I would normally agree with leaving the relay out as simple circuits will usually outperform complex circuits, except this circuit was designed about 50-60 years ago and even the factory recognized the problems and VW at least issued a fix with a starter relay kit.
Bottom line, if yours works OK without the relay, leave it out. Your car had the problem in the past so just be aware that when it gets hot out it could reappear.
Tom

Thanks, thats very helpful. I will keep an eye on that this summer as I drive this thing more.

Tom,
This is the first time I've seen this explained so well. Could you elaborate on what the best long-term fix is then? Would replacing the starter wiring make a difference? Particularly the yellow one running supplying juice with key-on?

ThePaintedMan,
It would be impractical to replace all of the wires associated with the starter circuit. Cleaning up the connections would be the best bet. Starting at the two larger wires (4.0 size) at the battery, determine which one goes to the key switch at terminal 30. Better yet just replace the 4 connectors on all red wires at the battery positive making sure to cut the wires back to nice clean copper and crimping the new connectors on well. The next connection is at terminal 30 of the key switch, check and replace as necessary. If your car has the under seat relay for the seal belts, check those for corrosion and replace as necessary. A lot of folks just jumper out this relay. The next one is key switch 50, a large yellow wire (4.0 size )that goes to the 14 pin connector at the relay board in the engine bay. FOR SAFETY, DO NOT REMOVE/REPLACE THIS CONNECTOR WITH THE BATTERY CONNECTED! Get the connector aligned 1 pin off and you will put 12 volts from the battery to ground.
You can clean the two relay connectors with small wire brushes and alcohol. Next is the 12 pin connector, then the connector at the starter solenoid. If all of these connections are clean and you still have problems, your key switch may need replacing, that is the one connection you can't see to inspect. If all connections are clean and the starter is known to be good, the relay kit will allow the starting system to work as a last resort.
I feel due to the high current needed by the solenoid for initial closing, this circuit should have been designed with a relay from the factory anyway. Much less stress on the key switch.
Tom