Right now I have overlapping torsion bar/spring rates/ sway bar sizes that allow me to dial in enough adjustment in my front swaybar to connect or disconnect the rear stock swaybar. I can get the car neutral on the auto-x track or the big tracks.

I have recently purchased threaded collars for my shocks (bilsteins) and would like to know the pros and cons to connecting or disconnecting the rear bar for auto-x or big track.

I have:

23mm front torsion bars
22mm Welt adj bar up front
250# H&R springs
Stock sway rear (15 or 16mm, can't remember)
Bilsteins all the way around

coming soon = adjustable perches
coming soon = mueller's roller bushings

I'm getting a basic split in talking with people about the merits of the rear sway...some say run with it...some say leave it off...

Education would be welcomed!

Thanks,

Bill P.

If you have one (and its adjustable) ..and a limited slip. Install it. Run it like "Sluggo" runs it (in the trunk with the bar flipped over and the links dropping down thru the trunk)

I think they are valuable for tuning... but only on peoples cars who will get some value from the tuning. Its sounds like your ready. It ranks right up there with 100 way adjustable shocks.. most people dont need them.. the top people will take full advantage of them.. where as a newbie will not utilize their full potential.

B

here is something I haven't heard. Brad, do you have a picture of this.

I run an adjustable rear (welt?) with a locked diff.... but never thought of using other than stock mounting locations..... (I did shim the stock mounts with 3/4inch aluminum blocks to avoid binding)...

like to see this one though.
brant

Brant.. the problem is:

If you get the car really low (we raise the suspension points) the drop links for the sway bar will hit the trunk floor (no matter how short you make them) when they are loaded. To eliminate this binding and to get some adjustability back.. flip it over and run the mounts in the trunk. If you think about where it mounts under the trunk.. you can use the same holes (if you drilled all the way thru for the welt) on top in the trunk. Drill two more holes for the drop links to pass thru and make longer ones with heim joints. You now have a bar that is easier to adjust (from the trunk) and doesnt stand a chance of going into bind against the trunk floor (ancient Chinese secret)

B

interesting.. thanks for the info,

I think this could soon come in very handy as my new suspension is going to be very low. You might have seen Allen Johnsen's preferred front and rear suspension. I think you do the same thing on the front, and I'll be using it on the vintage car... So it'll be pretty low. (60series tires will be the limiting factor)

thanks again
brant

Do you have pics of Allens setup (to show these guy's) I have seen it..but didnt get any pics.

B

wow, flipped upside down into the trunk....neat idea, what if your car isnt lowered, will it still bind?

I have it all sitting in my garage in bubble wrap, but I don't own a digital camera.

I was thinking about buying one or having ginter take pictures for me. (is there a decent camera out there for 150 - 200 range?)

Sorry no pictures. The front consists of koni struts cut down for a body drop w/custom valved/custom length Carrera brand shocks. The rear is a custom machined piece for the upper body/shock attatchement with a custom valved/custom length inverted (upside down) Carrera rear shock that has the threaded perch collar made right onto the shock body.

I'm going to slit and massage the upper rear (?front) fender contours to get it lower with a 60 series tire.

I haven't yet chosen a method for bump-steer, but since the spindles can't legally be dropped, I'll probably go with the AJ-USA tire-rod thingies... (hey do you like these?)

brant

I use the Smart Camber version of the tie rod "thingies" it allows you to adjust the bump out at the strut. They work VERY well. They give LOTS of feedback thru the steering wheel combined with Turbo tie rods.

Acox.. there is no need in a street car to mount the bar in the trunk. You could use some adjustable drop links however.

B

once again thanks for your time and input Brad.

brant

No problem Brant. Sooner or later I'll be back on the track... and not just talking about it on a BBS.


B

I hate people that just TALK about their racecars!

Funny that you mention those. After finishing the front end of my car (Mueller needle bearings, Tarret camber plates, fresh Bilsteins) I plan to lower the car as far as my driveway will allow. Most likely I'll get the rear fender opening to within 1/2" to 3/4" of the OD of the rear wheel, but, I might go further if the driveway lets me.

Last year I put in some rack spacers and was astounded by the improved feel (and lack of kickback) in the steering. In fact I'd rate it as one of the better things I've done for the driveability of the car. So, figuring where I'm gonna set the ride height I'm probably gonna want to add the Smart Racing tie rod end thingies huh?

Have fun,
Kevin

I run a stock rear sway bar, and so does Andrew B. I don't know technically why I keep it on, but my car does seem to keep all 4 wheels on the ground unlike others I've seen with similar suspensions without the rear bar. In a fairly stock setup, the car feels like its tied in by both ends of the car.

I'd like to see picts of the race setup into the trunk.

Instead of moving the rear bar into the trunk, I flipped the drop links so the end of the bar is below the shock.
I made new, longer, drop links so there is no binding when the shock is extended (full droop). So far I am very happy with the results.

What I would really like is a sway bar in the style that high end R/C cars use. It doesn't require drop links.

Hey Chris,

I can't visualise the R/C setup...
Do you mean the swaybars mount straight to the a-arms/trailing-arms?
Something like the stock "underbody" front bars of the later 911s?

cheers,

Jeroen

I'm leaning towards keeping a rear bar. It seems that you can tune the car for entering AND exiting turns, especially when you think about the different loads the car is seeing at these two points.

B,

Do you have a pic of that reverse mounted rear bar? How big to I make the holes for the drop links to go through? Enough room for the ends of the bar to swing through as well?

This is great stuff....

I don't have a picture to explain, but I'll try with words.
First of all, it's done on a double a-arm suspension. There are two straight bars, each hard mounted to the upper (or lower) a-arms pointing at each other in the center of the car. They are joined at the center by a ball/sleeve coupling. When the body rolls, the outside a-arm pivots upward at the outer end, causing the attached bar to move down at its inner end. Since it's coupled to the other bar it forces the opposite side to try and move the inner a-arm upward as well. The thickness of the bar determines the basic rate, and there is an adjustment where it attaches to the a-arm, to lengthen or shorten the effective length of the bar. Instead of twisting, the anti-sway bar bends when it has to absorb energy.