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nine14cats
Doris and I were able to finally drive Leeloo on the track this weekend at Thunderhill in Willows. A new car is always a challenge the first time out and development of the handling characteristics are time consuming but also fun.

First impressions: Wow! The Carrera motor with the broad torque band really is a nice motor in a 914. The car is wicked fast upon acceleration and you have power everywhere. You can pick and choose gears in several spots on the track. This is definitely a motor that will be a blast driving and also be very friendly to Doris given the broad power band.

I had forgotten how light a 914 was. It makes my SPB feel like a boat anchor. You flick the wheel and the car darts, you push on the go pedal and your head snaps back. Very visceral and very fun! Steering wasn't very heavy and I am very pleased with the 944 Turbo brake setup with the 23mm master cylinder package on the car. The cars stops, like now. I've heard that sometimes folks don't like the braking pressure needed to take advantage of the Turbo brakes, but both Doris and I found that once you apply some initial brake pedal force, the braking starts and it is very easily to modulate. You don't need 2 feet on the brake pedal or anything like that. Truly great brakes on the track. The car is running Pagid Orange pads and seems decently balanced. I may need to play with the rear bias, but for now it seems fine.

The not so good: As you bring speed into the turns and wick it up, the car exhibits a very distinct set of personalities. Corner entry to mid-corner produces some understeer. You can drive around this with either a lift of the throttle at mid-corner to tuck the car or you can use the right foot and toss the car to bring the rear around to where you want this. This technique worked well in turns 2 and 6 especially. However, on turns with some elevation or off camber changes, the car really changed from docile understeer to diabolically evil handling traits. When the car's suspension compresses from an off camber (turn 3) or elevation (turn 5a, turn 9) the car just unloads suspension and you immediately go from the above understeering traits to a snap oversteer. It was really pronounced going over the top of turn 9, to the point you would need to feather the throttle if you tried any steering corrections after going over the top or just pointing a straight line and not upsetting the car. Definitely a handful and scary when you go from pushing to the rear wanting to immediately come around. Suprisingly, the car hooks up very well for an open diff.

Baseline: 23mm T-bars front, 250 lbs Eibach springs in rear. Bilstein Sports all around, Front Tarett 22mm Adj sway bar, no rear sway bar, stock geared 901 open differential gear box. Toe = 0 in front and 1/16" out total in rear. Ride height is low. Very low. The car feels very stiff and almost like a skateboard. There doesn't seem to be much suspension travel. The front A-arms are not perpendicular or angled lower to the steering rack but are actually angled upwards with the ball joints above the rack.

Next moves: I'm thinking the car needs to come up off the deck to allow more suspension travel and help with the "unloading" you feel under compression. Lowered cars handle good, but if you run out of travel and hit the stops, the car stiffens up really quick. I also will set the toe to zero all around. I also think it will be easier on Doris to soften the front of the car, so I'm thinking going to 21mm t-bars from the 23mm t-bars that are in there. I'll also take apart the rear suspension and see if the shocks or trailing arms are damaged. I drove the car during 3 sessions over the weekend and amongst all of the above I also felt like there was something "odd" in the right rear. It could be the way the car was unloading after compression, but it just felt like it wanted to pogo up higher than the drivers side rear.

Also, Doris rememberd how she doesn't like the 901, so we are starting the 915 box build in a couple of weeks. I've got to figure out gearing but that won't take too long.

The good news was that Doris really had a great time driving Leeloo. Giggling and screaming while we got her up to speed. Her lines are still good after a several year layoff and she still has feel. For instance, we were driving through a sweeper and she tells me the car is pushing (which it was). She is driving during a session and tells me the throttle pedal is "sticky". I check it after the session and sure as shootin' she is right. I play with the linkage and lubricate the cable and get it smooth again. She tells me it is better. Here ability to feel the car is still there, which makes it much easier to set the car up for her.

One thing I haven't figured out is her seating position. We got her adjusted for height and for comfortable pedal length, but the steering wheel is awfully close to her. Is it feasible to cut down the steering column? We currently have a Smart Racing quick disconnect that is one of the shortest on the market right now, so I don't see any other alternative than moving the steering wheel closer to the dash. I guess I could figure out how to move the pedal cluster closer to her....

Misc: The trunk cable release broke at the track so I had to take off the front bumper and re-install to fuel the car and change ice in the cool suit. That was very inconvenient, although that issue goes away when I put on the f/g hoods and pin them.

All in all, a very successful maiden voyage for Doris and Leeloo.

Bill P.
Matt Romanowski
I would say make the front swaybar full soft. Also set the rear toe to 1/16" in on each side. That should make the car pretty neutral. What does it have in it for bump stops in the front?
stuttgart46
This is the beginning of a beautiful relationship.
Randal
QUOTE(nine14cats @ Jul 15 2013, 09:15 AM) *

Doris and I were able to finally drive Leeloo on the track this weekend at Thunderhill in Willows. A new car is always a challenge the first time out and development of the handling characteristics are time consuming but also fun.

First impressions: Wow! The Carrera motor with the broad torque band really is a nice motor in a 914. The car is wicked fast upon acceleration and you have power everywhere. You can pick and choose gears in several spots on the track. This is definitely a motor that will be a blast driving and also be very friendly to Doris given the broad power band.

I had forgotten how light a 914 was. It makes my SPB feel like a boat anchor. You flick the wheel and the car darts, you push on the go pedal and your head snaps back. Very visceral and very fun! Steering wasn't very heavy and I am very pleased with the 944 Turbo brake setup with the 23mm master cylinder package on the car. The cars stops, like now. I've heard that sometimes folks don't like the braking pressure needed to take advantage of the Turbo brakes, but both Doris and I found that once you apply some initial brake pedal force, the braking starts and it is very easily to modulate. You don't need 2 feet on the brake pedal or anything like that. Truly great brakes on the track. The car is running Pagid Orange pads and seems decently balanced. I may need to play with the rear bias, but for now it seems fine.

The not so good: As you bring speed into the turns and wick it up, the car exhibits a very distinct set of personalities. Corner entry to mid-corner produces some understeer. You can drive around this with either a lift of the throttle at mid-corner to tuck the car or you can use the right foot and toss the car to bring the rear around to where you want this. This technique worked well in turns 2 and 6 especially. However, on turns with some elevation or off camber changes, the car really changed from docile understeer to diabolically evil handling traits. When the car's suspension compresses from an off camber (turn 3) or elevation (turn 5a, turn 9) the car just unloads suspension and you immediately go from the above understeering traits to a snap oversteer. It was really pronounced going over the top of turn 9, to the point you would need to feather the throttle if you tried any steering corrections after going over the top or just pointing a straight line and not upsetting the car. Definitely a handful and scary when you go from pushing to the rear wanting to immediately come around. Suprisingly, the car hooks up very well for an open diff.

Baseline: 23mm T-bars front, 250 lbs Eibach springs in rear. Bilstein Sports all around, Front Tarett 22mm Adj sway bar, no rear sway bar, stock geared 901 open differential gear box. Toe = 0 in front and 1/16" out total in rear. Ride height is low. Very low. The car feels very stiff and almost like a skateboard. There doesn't seem to be much suspension travel. The front A-arms are not perpendicular or angled lower to the steering rack but are actually angled upwards with the ball joints above the rack.

Next moves: I'm thinking the car needs to come up off the deck to allow more suspension travel and help with the "unloading" you feel under compression. Lowered cars handle good, but if you run out of travel and hit the stops, the car stiffens up really quick. I also will set the toe to zero all around. I also think it will be easier on Doris to soften the front of the car, so I'm thinking going to 21mm t-bars from the 23mm t-bars that are in there. I'll also take apart the rear suspension and see if the shocks or trailing arms are damaged. I drove the car during 3 sessions over the weekend and amongst all of the above I also felt like there was something "odd" in the right rear. It could be the way the car was unloading after compression, but it just felt like it wanted to pogo up higher than the drivers side rear.

Also, Doris rememberd how she doesn't like the 901, so we are starting the 915 box build in a couple of weeks. I've got to figure out gearing but that won't take too long.

The good news was that Doris really had a great time driving Leeloo. Giggling and screaming while we got her up to speed. Her lines are still good after a several year layoff and she still has feel. For instance, we were driving through a sweeper and she tells me the car is pushing (which it was). She is driving during a session and tells me the throttle pedal is "sticky". I check it after the session and sure as shootin' she is right. I play with the linkage and lubricate the cable and get it smooth again. She tells me it is better. Here ability to feel the car is still there, which makes it much easier to set the car up for her.

One thing I haven't figured out is her seating position. We got her adjusted for height and for comfortable pedal length, but the steering wheel is awfully close to her. Is it feasible to cut down the steering column? We currently have a Smart Racing quick disconnect that is one of the shortest on the market right now, so I don't see any other alternative than moving the steering wheel closer to the dash. I guess I could figure out how to move the pedal cluster closer to her....

Misc: The trunk cable release broke at the track so I had to take off the front bumper and re-install to fuel the car and change ice in the cool suit. That was very inconvenient, although that issue goes away when I put on the f/g hoods and pin them.

All in all, a very successful maiden voyage for Doris and Leeloo.

Bill P.


Sounds like a blast Bill.

The steering wheel issue can be handled a couple of ways.

You can get a flatter wheel, which can take an inch or more off. You could even get a recessed wheel which would take more. Each of these solutions are pretty easy.

If you'e running one of those aluminum spacers you can adapt it to be shorter. You can also put in a steering coupler, like I did, which lets you put the wheel where you want, but not good until we have the power steering solution resolved.

PS I just looked at my aluminum steering wheel adapter and you could easily get an inch off it, just by cutting it, shortening it to the max and welding it back together. So between a steering wheel change and the coupler you are probably looking at 2-3" biggrin.gif
mikeyb33
Bill,
Re. the "diabolical handling" - when susp goes unloaded: Have you checked your rear wheels for free play? In particular the control arm bushings.

I expect you are very thorough with your cars & would have already found any such susp. looseness, but just wanted to offer this as a possible idea:

When I last had my car on the track, it was doing a scary "wandering" thing, similar to what you described. In my case the car literally didn't want to hold a straight line - while the steering was held dead straight. Scary!!! I was able to observe that this happened only when the car/susp was being unloaded - cresting T1 or T6-7 hills at Laguna, T9 at TH, and T4 or T8/Esses at Sears Pt. (Did I mention this was scary..!)

I traced my problem to a failing rt. rear control arm bushing. My theory is, when the susp. went from compressed to unloaded, the Toe on that rt.rear tire would change - inducing a "steering" force on the car. It's not something I can really notice in street conditions but it (among other factors) has kept me off the track in that car until I could fix it.

I've replaced the bushings, twice, only to have that rt.rear fail again on the very next track outing. I'll be installing the bronze bushings, upgrade sold through Pelican I think, "one-a these days". (My kit has been sitting on my workbench for ~4 years now! huh.gif ). Despite all the racing I've been doing (in another car), I'm Jones'ing to get my 914 back out on the track again -

Cheers & good luck with the progress, looks like a great car! And congrats to Doris on refining her 'car feel'. A super important skill to have.

mike
Randal
QUOTE(mikeyb33 @ Jul 17 2013, 12:26 PM) *

Bill,
Re. the "diabolical handling" - when susp goes unloaded: Have you checked your rear wheels for free play? In particular the control arm bushings.

I expect you are very thorough with your cars & would have already found any such susp. looseness, but just wanted to offer this as a possible idea:

When I last had my car on the track, it was doing a scary "wandering" thing, similar to what you described. In my case the car literally didn't want to hold a straight line - while the steering was held dead straight. Scary!!! I was able to observe that this happened only when the car/susp was being unloaded - cresting T1 or T6-7 hills at Laguna, T9 at TH, and T4 or T8/Esses at Sears Pt. (Did I mention this was scary..!)

I traced my problem to a failing rt. rear control arm bushing. My theory is, when the susp. went from compressed to unloaded, the Toe on that rt.rear tire would change - inducing a "steering" force on the car. It's not something I can really notice in street conditions but it (among other factors) has kept me off the track in that car until I could fix it.

I've replaced the bushings, twice, only to have that rt.rear fail again on the very next track outing. I'll be installing the bronze bushings, upgrade sold through Pelican I think, "one-a these days". (My kit has been sitting on my workbench for ~4 years now! huh.gif ). Despite all the racing I've been doing (in another car), I'm Jones'ing to get my 914 back out on the track again -

Cheers & good luck with the progress, looks like a great car! And congrats to Doris on refining her 'car feel'. A super important skill to have.

mike



I have to admit that I've been really pleased with the ball bearing solution for the control arms and torsion bars. As soon as they were in you could tell the difference immediately.

Not sure who is selling them now, but would check with McMark and Chris Foley.
Trekkor
Glad to hear your track weekend was a good one.

May I strongly suggest a front splitter of some sort?

Makes a huge difference, as in , car is undriveable without it.
First time through T2 with an aggressive splitter will make you a believer.


KT
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