I'm putting back my 1.8 engine together and notice that it doesn't have head gaskets between the head and top of each cylinder.

I've heard some people say not to use them for the cylinder seats better in the head without them.

My pistons are the low compression ones that are dished out.

Which is the better way to go? L

no

You will get both answers. I went with no so I could increase compression. So far so good.

Not from VW. They issued a service bulletin advising omitting them. Can't find a link now, but have seen it.

Will this bullshit misinformation NEVER end? The Tech document refers ONLY to the revised 2 liter heads. Period. Perpetuating misinformation does no one any good.

The Cap'n

Found it: HERE.

True, Cap'n, the bulletin only mentions 2 liter engines, but it's also actually a VW-only bulletin. Porsche never said anything, so you could also assume that no Porsche engines were affected. Problem is that the explanation given at the time was after years of use the repeated heat cycles, expansion and contraction of the cylinder against the heads, compressed the copper gaskets beyond the point they could seal, permitting head leaks. So in their cylinder sealing are the 4 cylinder Porsche engines different than the VW? The two liter Porsche heads are different, but otherwise do the 2 liter engines work differently than others?

It's true I'm not in the business any more, but no production VW engine builder I knew used those gaskets, except to occasionally get some additional deck height. It could be I need to get out more, but calling that bullshit is bullshit.

The tech bulletin applies to engine codes GD, GE, CV. Only. No 914 ever came with these engines. While these engines may have similarities with 914 engines, they are not the same. The tech bulletin does not apply to 914 engines.

Custom engine builders can do whatever they want, but to apply the recommendations of that tech bulletin wholesale to other engines and other conditions is beyond its scope - that is the Capn's point.

To those that follow this tech bulletin, are you also doing the other things it requires - adding aluminum shims, cutting oil grooves in the rods?

I didn't say custom engine builders, Jeff, I said production. Big difference. And how exactly are the engines covered in the bulletin different? And I mean function, not dipstick location. And more to the point how do their cylinders SEAL differently?

And it isn't just some random personal opinion, there have been how many, 25 or 30 million VW aircooled beetles manufactured without those gaskets, not to mention untold numbers of aircooled aircraft and motorcycle engines. AMC, the company that makes newly cast T4 cylincer heads, even notifies that you'll void their warranty if you use copper head gaskets. VW issued that bulletin in 1990 after they'd had serious problems of erosion of the copper gaskets they'd added, which were ruining motors. They went back to the configurations that were proven to have worked, in order to solve the problems the copper gaskets caused. You can say that Porsche never issued a bulletin so Porsche engines never suffered those problems. You could, but to do that you really need to be able to realistically explain why the VW engines had those problems while the identical Porsche engines didn't.

This is probably one of those contentious subject like oils, religion, fuel injection vs. carbs, or Automobile Atlanta. I'd say at the MINIMUM there's space for reasonable people to disagree. At a minimum. And if that's true it's not bullshit, no matter who's calling it.

Oh, and that slot in the connection rod is actually genial, it sprays the bottom of the piston with oil, cooling it. Simple, cheap and effective, keeps engine temps down. If you don't do that already, especially with race engines, maybe it's worth a try. Worked for VW, anyway.

So I stand by my original statement then, OK?

Of course... and I'll repeat my original reply, right?

AMC prohibits the use of head gaskets because their heads for 2 liter air cooled T4 engines mimic the VW production change. They ARE the heads referred to in the tech bulletin. Sorry if my use of the word "bullshit" offended you, but to perpetuate erroneous information that has been repeatedly shown to be false on this forum is exactly that: bullshit.

The Cap'n

By the time VW issued that bulletin, Porsche had long stopped thinking about the T4.

Our engines are identical in the basic design involving the head sealing and i have no doubt that a stock T4 engine is suspect to the same head gasket issues as the VW engines mentioned in the bulletin.

DB has posed a valid question. I hope we get a definitive answer but I doubt it. When I built the type IV (2.0) in Frank (formally known as Blackie) I did not use them. Why? Because Jake didn't use them. I personally, did not know which was the proper technique but I figured a guy that has literally built hundreds would have a pretty good idea.

FAT Performance used them on my engine. At least they charged me for them.

Jake Raby, in Shop Talk Forums. It's old and I'm definitely not a Jake fan or follower, this was just the first of many that popped up during a search. Quote:

Head gaskets
Throw the stockers away that come in the gasket set and don?t use ANY gasket between the cylinder/head? It gives ANOTHER expansion rate and point and starts issues, and makes others worse! This includes copper gaskets, they also have another different expansion rate and cause issues- they are advertised to be the best thing since sliced bread, but they are not for a TIV.

unquote

Elliot I have maximum respect for FAT, but those really are custom engines, not production. There are some good reasons to use the copper gaskets, especially on performance engines that run high compression, will be turboed, or will probably be torn down frequently, things like the race engines FAT typically builds. But generally not in production engines.

The VW bulletin was from 1990, when the 914 had been out of production for 14 years and Porsche was doing its best to forget it. At VW the T4 engines went through 1983 (1984?). At the time of the bulletin the 1.7 and 1.8 were already out of the 10 year window, and only the engines mentioned were still "current" by OEM standards. For VW, not for Porsche. Same engines, different attitude.

Again, you can choose to do whatever you want, but there is absolutely no erroneous information and definitely no "bullshit" there.

Total respect, Cap'n, but I hate bullshit too. No bullshit.


There's a beating the dead horse icon somewhere. Need to insert that here.

now everyone grab a beer!

Been a long time time since I put an engine together. On my Type 1's I used to lap the cylinders to the heads.

Anyone confirm or deny this practice on the T4