Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: SCCA rules
914World.com > The 914 Forums > The Paddock
Randal
At least in XP.

A fantasy of mine is to keep my car all Porsche and put in a 993 3.6. While the car would be +/-100 pounds heaver it would have over 300hp (with Varioram) and around 250lbs of torque. It would be a great hill climb car able to compete with the big bore modified cars.

OK, but then what do you do the rest of the year? XP rules would dictate ballasting up to 1997#. Are you kidding me?

So the only way to be competitive in XP is to convert to a Suby or shove in a twin turbo motor, just like everyone else.

Annoying.

brant
The 911 conversion adds a bit over 150lbs from a 4.
Randal
QUOTE(brant @ Jul 26 2013, 10:53 AM) *

The 911 conversion adds a bit over 150lbs from a 4.


Ouch!

I could lose another 50lbs off my car pretty easily, so 1800# would be the target finished weight.

So 1800# (excluding driver) with over 300hp and 270+ foot pounds of torque. For a car that handles that would be a pretty good package. Personally I don't care about the HP, it's the torque that moves the car out of the corners.
Woody
I have begun to source some parts to build a short stroke 2.5 off of a 74 7R case. Displacement will be 2519 and I will be running in FP. I don't think I will have much problems keeping the car under 1900 lbs.
Randal
QUOTE(Woody @ Jul 26 2013, 11:16 AM) *

I have begun to source some parts to build a short stroke 2.5 off of a 74 7R case. Displacement will be 2519 and I will be running in FP. I don't think I will have much problems keeping the car under 1900 lbs.


Sounds interesting. How much HP and Torque?
grantsfo
Could always run EM. Even with turbo you'd have to ballast up. Then you have Driveability issues associated with low displacement turbo motor.
Woody
I'm hoping to see 220+ hp and 175 ftlbs but the torque may be a bit on the optimistic side. I intend to build it with a very light rotating mass and use a non counterweighted 2.0 crankshaft with E cams. I would like to have a 8,000 rpm redline and gear the car low. I think this could work if I keep the car light. Granted I am just now beginning to aquire the parts needed and have no idea how I am going to be able to afford everything. Buying a 3.2 or a 3.6 would be cheaper but I already have the 2.7.
brant
QUOTE(Woody @ Jul 26 2013, 12:16 PM) *

I have begun to source some parts to build a short stroke 2.5 off of a 74 7R case. Displacement will be 2519 and I will be running in FP. I don't think I will have much problems keeping the car under 1900 lbs.


Under 1900 with a 6 is doable but not easy. Review my thread about how we got to 1826. Don't expect to have any street legal gear (no headlights or windows for instance). An enclosed trailer becomes necessary for long tows through rain.

Most -6 cars are 2000lbs at road racing trim
Woody
QUOTE(brant @ Jul 26 2013, 03:44 PM) *

QUOTE(Woody @ Jul 26 2013, 12:16 PM) *

I have begun to source some parts to build a short stroke 2.5 off of a 74 7R case. Displacement will be 2519 and I will be running in FP. I don't think I will have much problems keeping the car under 1900 lbs.


Under 1900 with a 6 is doable but not easy. Review my thread about how we got to 1826. Don't expect to have any street legal gear (no headlights or windows for instance). An enclosed trailer becomes necessary for long tows through rain.

Most -6 cars are 2000lbs at road racing trim

I read your thread. Great build. I intend to keep it street legal but am willing to go with glass lids and plexi windows. As for headlights I will probably fab up some sort of GT like kit.
r_towle
Twin turbo 3.6

Just saying
brant
Street legal is going to be closer to 1950 -2000lbs. Let us know when you weigh. I've been doing this for 25 years and 1900 will be tough if street legal.

Let us know.
Britain Smith
I was sub-1800 with a 2.7L 6-cylinder motor...and that was with a overly heavy cage.

-Britain
brant
Yes but not street legal. My car is a bit heavy because of the metal body panels/hoods and full trunk floor and roof when compared to yours. I have to keep metal fenders for my vintage class.
J P Stein
High HP works only when you're OTG, whereas light weight works all the time..... Just something to file in the back if your mind. At some HP/Torque point, a weight increase becomes inevitable.

Brit has doubled his HP with an expense that an AC Porsche motor cost that would more than double..... while maintaining the low CG that is something I would not give up. There are few even semi-affordable options that maintain that low CG and none of them say Porsche on em'.



Randal
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 27 2013, 06:08 AM) *

High HP works only when you're OTG, whereas light weight works all the time..... Just something to file in the back if your mind. At some HP/Torque point, a weight increase becomes inevitable.

Brit has doubled his HP with an expense that an AC Porsche motor cost that would more than double..... while maintaining the low CG that is something I would not give up. There are few even semi-affordable options that maintain that low CG and none of them say Porsche on em'.



You are right, it's just hard to swallow.
SirAndy
I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif
ConeDodger
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 28 2013, 04:29 PM) *

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif


agree.gif
r_towle
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 28 2013, 08:29 PM) *

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif

Twin turbo.....
carr914
QUOTE(Woody @ Jul 26 2013, 03:27 PM) *

I'm hoping to see 220+ hp and 175 ftlbs but the torque may be a bit on the optimistic side. I intend to build it with a very light rotating mass and use a non counterweighted 2.0 crankshaft with E cams. I would like to have a 8,000 rpm redline and gear the car low. I think this could work if I keep the car light. Granted I am just now beginning to aquire the parts needed and have no idea how I am going to be able to afford everything. Buying a 3.2 or a 3.6 would be cheaper but I already have the 2.7.


Numbers aren't far off.

I got 214hp, 185ftlbs out of this 2.5

Click to view attachment
Randal
QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 28 2013, 08:56 PM) *

QUOTE(Woody @ Jul 26 2013, 03:27 PM) *

I'm hoping to see 220+ hp and 175 ftlbs but the torque may be a bit on the optimistic side. I intend to build it with a very light rotating mass and use a non counterweighted 2.0 crankshaft with E cams. I would like to have a 8,000 rpm redline and gear the car low. I think this could work if I keep the car light. Granted I am just now beginning to aquire the parts needed and have no idea how I am going to be able to afford everything. Buying a 3.2 or a 3.6 would be cheaper but I already have the 2.7.


Numbers aren't far off.

I got 214hp, 185ftlbs out of this 2.5

Click to view attachment


On the dyno or to the wheels?

Beautiful motor!
carr914
QUOTE(Randal @ Jul 29 2013, 12:07 AM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 28 2013, 08:56 PM) *

QUOTE(Woody @ Jul 26 2013, 03:27 PM) *

I'm hoping to see 220+ hp and 175 ftlbs but the torque may be a bit on the optimistic side. I intend to build it with a very light rotating mass and use a non counterweighted 2.0 crankshaft with E cams. I would like to have a 8,000 rpm redline and gear the car low. I think this could work if I keep the car light. Granted I am just now beginning to aquire the parts needed and have no idea how I am going to be able to afford everything. Buying a 3.2 or a 3.6 would be cheaper but I already have the 2.7.


Numbers aren't far off.

I got 214hp, 185ftlbs out of this 2.5

Click to view attachment


On the dyno or to the wheels?

Beautiful motor!


Dyno

It's in a 911R in England now
Woody
QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 28 2013, 10:56 PM) *

QUOTE(Woody @ Jul 26 2013, 03:27 PM) *

I'm hoping to see 220+ hp and 175 ftlbs but the torque may be a bit on the optimistic side. I intend to build it with a very light rotating mass and use a non counterweighted 2.0 crankshaft with E cams. I would like to have a 8,000 rpm redline and gear the car low. I think this could work if I keep the car light. Granted I am just now beginning to aquire the parts needed and have no idea how I am going to be able to afford everything. Buying a 3.2 or a 3.6 would be cheaper but I already have the 2.7.


Numbers aren't far off.

I got 214hp, 185ftlbs out of this 2.5

Click to view attachment

wub.gif Thats gorgeous.
J P Stein
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 28 2013, 05:29 PM) *

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif



That's cause you've never walked a mile in my shoes.

Bring your finly crafted German knife to one of my gunfights and you'll figure it out. biggrin.gif
Randal
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 29 2013, 05:51 AM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 28 2013, 05:29 PM) *

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif



That's cause you've never walked a mile in my shoes.

Bring your finly crafted German knife to one of my gunfights and you'll figure it out. biggrin.gif



My engine is about 210-215hp - 175ftlbs on the dyno. I say about 210/215 as when we did the dyno work it had the wrong valve springs. We never took it above 6K where it was 202hp and 175 ft lbs. It has 175hp and almost the same ft lb on the chassis dyno with the correct valve springs.

I'd put on a turbo or SC, just not sure whether the bottom end would hold up to 250hp and +/-215 ftlbs.

Nothing like ploughing new ground.



jhadler
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 28 2013, 05:29 PM) *

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif


If Subie made a mid-engined rear wheel drive sports car, I would. Which is why I'm eying the latest from Factory Five Racing...

For me, it's not about the name, it's about the capability of the chassis. The 914 is a great platform, but the motor is more costly and less powerful and more unreliable compared to contemporary designs.

-Josh
J P Stein
QUOTE(jhadler @ Jul 30 2013, 02:42 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 28 2013, 05:29 PM) *

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif


If Subie made a mid-engined rear wheel drive sports car, I would. Which is why I'm eying the latest from Factory Five Racing...

For me, it's not about the name, it's about the capability of the chassis. The 914 is a great platform, but the motor is more costly and less powerful and more unreliable compared to contemporary designs.

-Josh


Couple that with the absurd 1.4 multiplier that SCCA applies for forced induction and one would be pretty damn foolish to spend a pee pot fulla money on a NA engine.....Porsche engines in particular.

I have read that them F1 guys (back in the 80s) ran up to 80 psi boost.....1100 hp from 1.5L in qualifying trim (that would be bout 3 AX passes)......they were a tad peaky tho. biggrin.gif With today's electronics, who knows....on alcohol with a bit of "pop" slipped in.....
jhadler
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 30 2013, 08:17 PM) *

QUOTE(jhadler @ Jul 30 2013, 02:42 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 28 2013, 05:29 PM) *

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
confused24.gif


If Subie made a mid-engined rear wheel drive sports car, I would. Which is why I'm eying the latest from Factory Five Racing...

For me, it's not about the name, it's about the capability of the chassis. The 914 is a great platform, but the motor is more costly and less powerful and more unreliable compared to contemporary designs.

-Josh


Couple that with the absurd 1.4 multiplier that SCCA applies for forced induction and one would be pretty damn foolish to spend a pee pot fulla money on a NA engine.....Porsche engines in particular.

I have read that them F1 guys (back in the 80s) ran up to 80 psi boost.....1100 hp from 1.5L in qualifying trim (that would be bout 3 AX passes)......they were a tad peaky tho. biggrin.gif With today's electronics, who knows....on alcohol with a bit of "pop" slipped in.....


And now those turbo sewing machines are coming back! New rules in the pipeline for F1... :-)
J P Stein
It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.
Randal
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 31 2013, 03:51 AM) *

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.



Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?
jhadler
QUOTE(Randal @ Jul 31 2013, 11:55 AM) *

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 31 2013, 03:51 AM) *

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.



Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?


Not sure it would be a favorable class as it's not even a kit car based on a production model. For the cars it would likely class against, think: "Trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters"...

But it'd be one hoot and a holler of a car to drive....

-Josh
J P Stein
QUOTE(jhadler @ Jul 31 2013, 01:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Randal @ Jul 31 2013, 11:55 AM) *

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 31 2013, 03:51 AM) *

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.



Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?


Not sure it would be a favorable class as it's not even a kit car based on a production model. For the cars it would likely class against, think: "Trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters"...

But it'd be one hoot and a holler of a car to drive....

-Josh



agree.gif
Prolly A Mod......maybe B.
Factory 5 Cobras can run in E Mod or XP, so given time, who knows...

A guy would have to throw class warfare out the window & just have fun.....but you still get a time, then drive it home. biggrin.gif
Randal
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 31 2013, 04:52 PM) *

QUOTE(jhadler @ Jul 31 2013, 01:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Randal @ Jul 31 2013, 11:55 AM) *

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jul 31 2013, 03:51 AM) *

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.



Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?


Not sure it would be a favorable class as it's not even a kit car based on a production model. For the cars it would likely class against, think: "Trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters"...

But it'd be one hoot and a holler of a car to drive....

-Josh



agree.gif
Prolly A Mod......maybe B.
Factory 5 Cobras can run in E Mod or XP, so given time, who knows...

A guy would have to throw class warfare out the window & just have fun.....but you still get a time, then drive it home. biggrin.gif


So true. biggrin.gif
Andyrew
Is nitrous legal?

Just curious about a 50 shot in your case Randal.

If its not legal, you could run it for fun (assuming your engine can take it...) for a couple of runs on and off and see the differences in times to see if you can actually use that extra 50hp/tq.

Just a thought.
Woody
blowup.gif
jhadler
No Nitrous. It's considered an Oxygen bearing additive, which is (to my recollection) not allowed.

Plus, why in the wide wide world of sports would you want such a peaky spike of power? That'd be worse than the proverbial mule kick the old 935's gave in mid turn when the pinwheel finally kicked in...

-Josh
brant
in road racing at least...

they wouldn't even allow you to be on the track with nitrous...
even if not for points.

it presents a danger for other drivers and especially for corner workers.
similar to consuming alcohol on the track, or running without a fuel cell

(something that could hurt others and violate the insurance for any club)

scott_in_nh
QUOTE(jhadler @ Aug 1 2013, 12:52 PM) *

No Nitrous. It's considered an Oxygen bearing additive, which is (to my recollection) not allowed.

Plus, why in the wide wide world of sports would you want such a peaky spike of power? That'd be worse than the proverbial mule kick the old 935's gave in mid turn when the pinwheel finally kicked in...

-Josh



I get it that it is not allowed, but if you use a control box with nitrous, it can be as smooth or smoother than any other power adder.
Andyrew
QUOTE(jhadler @ Aug 1 2013, 09:52 AM) *

No Nitrous. It's considered an Oxygen bearing additive, which is (to my recollection) not allowed.

Plus, why in the wide wide world of sports would you want such a peaky spike of power? That'd be worse than the proverbial mule kick the old 935's gave in mid turn when the pinwheel finally kicked in...

-Josh



My thought was a cheap $500 investment that could easily be recouped in which to determine if that extra 50 hp was really worth it to him regarding lowered lap times.

If it really translated to an improved lap time that was substantial then he could justify the investment for more power.

Never thought of using it permanently, I know its peaky, He could put a tiny stiff spring at the end of the throttle pedal right before the full throttle switch so that he can feel the difference and know when he is going to hit nitrous. 95% throttle on an NA car is pretty much the same as 100%, Therefore he could be coming out of a corner that he knows doesnt need the nitrous and just give it that 95%.


My audi allroad has a similar thing from the factory. 95% throttle and its plenty of power for most of my activities. But when I really really need that something extra I push the pedal down even harder past the first stop and it automatically downshifts to optimum gear and gives me a couple extra PSI for a substantial increase in forward thrust.
grantsfo
QUOTE(Randal @ Jul 26 2013, 08:59 AM) *

At least in XP.

A fantasy of mine is to keep my car all Porsche and put in a 993 3.6. While the car would be +/-100 pounds heaver it would have over 300hp (with Varioram) and around 250lbs of torque. It would be a great hill climb car able to compete with the big bore modified cars.

OK, but then what do you do the rest of the year? XP rules would dictate ballasting up to 1997#. Are you kidding me?

So the only way to be competitive in XP is to convert to a Suby or shove in a twin turbo motor, just like everyone else.

Annoying.

Honestly even with 3.6 you would be down on power to fastest cars. Kippermans tube frame car will be completely rebuilt by next season with big V8 Poor little 300 hp 914 wouldn't have a chance against that car. Even my Z will be making 425 hp soon. You have to go either V8 or blown to be top dog in hillclimb. Or go with water cooled 6 from GT3. No doubts your car would be very fast but suspect it wouldn't be as fast as high hp cars at some Hillclimbs. You'd be a fast SPO car for sure. I'm going to SPO next year would be fun to run against you in same class. With Avon race slicks, 2500 lb car and 100 more hp the Z should be pretty quick as long as I keep it on the road! Lol!

I'd not worry about SCCA classing. You do mostly local ax and you'd be plenty fast in E mod with e mod PAX. PCA you'd have TTOD car.

If there any doubts about hp being king of Hillclimbs just look at Rob Bs GT2 setting 2:11 in SSP at Hoopa. The car is a rocketship. Made z06 corvettes look slow!
Andyrew
Grant, How is your Z a 2500lb car???
Woody
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 4 2013, 11:42 AM) *

Grant, How is your Z a 2500lb car???

Its missing some stuff.
Randal
QUOTE(grantsfo @ Aug 3 2013, 12:09 PM) *

QUOTE(Randal @ Jul 26 2013, 08:59 AM) *

At least in XP.

A fantasy of mine is to keep my car all Porsche and put in a 993 3.6. While the car would be +/-100 pounds heaver it would have over 300hp (with Varioram) and around 250lbs of torque. It would be a great hill climb car able to compete with the big bore modified cars.

OK, but then what do you do the rest of the year? XP rules would dictate ballasting up to 1997#. Are you kidding me?

So the only way to be competitive in XP is to convert to a Suby or shove in a twin turbo motor, just like everyone else.

Annoying.

Honestly even with 3.6 you would be down on power to fastest cars. Kippermans tube frame car will be completely rebuilt by next season with big V8 Poor little 300 hp 914 wouldn't have a chance against that car. Even my Z will be making 425 hp soon. You have to go either V8 or blown to be top dog in hillclimb. Or go with water cooled 6 from GT3. No doubts your car would be very fast but suspect it wouldn't be as fast as high hp cars at some Hillclimbs. You'd be a fast SPO car for sure. I'm going to SPO next year would be fun to run against you in same class. With Avon race slicks, 2500 lb car and 100 more hp the Z should be pretty quick as long as I keep it on the road! Lol!

I'd not worry about SCCA classing. You do mostly local ax and you'd be plenty fast in E mod with e mod PAX. PCA you'd have TTOD car.

If there any doubts about hp being king of Hillclimbs just look at Rob Bs GT2 setting 2:11 in SSP at Hoopa. The car is a rocketship. Made z06 corvettes look slow!


Rob's car is a rocketship on a hill and it ought to be as it cost a bundle. Rob's car is fast and he's a good driver, but not fast enough that he didn't get taken out at a "local" event this year by a old 914. smile.gif

One way of winning is to have a bigger budget than the next guy, but it makes for expensive bragging rights. hissyfit.gif


grantsfo
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 4 2013, 09:42 AM) *

Grant, How is your Z a 2500lb car???

Semi tube frame, aluminum floors , no dash, eliminated sheet metal info of.
grantsfo
QUOTE(Randal @ Aug 4 2013, 04:06 PM) *


Rob's car is a rocketship on a hill and it ought to be as it cost a bundle. Rob's car is fast and he's a good driver, but not fast enough that he didn't get taken out at a "local" event this year by a old 914. smile.gif

One way of winning is to have a bigger budget than the next guy, but it makes for expensive bragging rights. hissyfit.gif

Autocross doesn't put premium on power like hillclimbing does hence poorly prepared FP/XP cars including mine can beat his SSP car. However if your talking about a king of the hill winning hillclimb car me thinks you will need more than a NA 3.6.

However the big block chevy guys don't have nearly as much money as us Porsche and Nissan guys do into our cars. And they will run away from a 3.6 NA car on a hill. Dave was several seconds faster than Robs car at Hoopa in his tub frame beast last year. Yet we could likely beat them or be within a second in most ax events.

I also think you'd spend more than you might think converting to 3.6. If done properly. You will run into lots of issues you haven't experienced with lower powered lighter t4 powerplant. All of a sudden you won't have enough brake, you will get chassis and suspension flex too. Drive train will need to be replaced, etc. t's a long expensive road when you put power into a 914 race car. Why fiddle with nicely balance 4 cylinder car? It's fast local AXer and top of heap in SPU at Hillclimbs . I'd focus on making it fast SPU car - much cheaper route.

Also consider that beyond motor mods hillclimbing and ax rules don't mix well for prepared cars. You can run wing or much aero in SPU or SPO.

If your goal is to have TTOD at both ax and Hillclimbs a blown formula Mazda will get you there easier. I understand the fun in tinkering with a a given platform however. My Z is getting faster and faster but id have to go full tube frame and put motor in middle with twin turbos before I'd have a record setting hillclimb car. Ill settle with something that is fast and has a chance to win its class. But even at 450 NA HP my car will be extreme underdog in SPO with 600 hp plus cars
grantsfo
Correct typo. You cant run wings in SPO/SPU
Randal
QUOTE(grantsfo @ Aug 5 2013, 06:35 AM) *

QUOTE(Randal @ Aug 4 2013, 04:06 PM) *


Rob's car is a rocketship on a hill and it ought to be as it cost a bundle. Rob's car is fast and he's a good driver, but not fast enough that he didn't get taken out at a "local" event this year by a old 914. smile.gif

One way of winning is to have a bigger budget than the next guy, but it makes for expensive bragging rights. hissyfit.gif

Autocross doesn't put premium on power like hillclimbing does hence poorly prepared FP/XP cars including mine can beat his SSP car. However if your talking about a king of the hill winning hillclimb car me thinks you will need more than a NA 3.6.

However the big block chevy guys don't have nearly as much money as us Porsche and Nissan guys do into our cars. And they will run away from a 3.6 NA car on a hill. Dave was several seconds faster than Robs car at Hoopa in his tub frame beast last year. Yet we could likely beat them or be within a second in most ax events.

I also think you'd spend more than you might think converting to 3.6. If done properly. You will run into lots of issues you haven't experienced with lower powered lighter t4 powerplant. All of a sudden you won't have enough brake, you will get chassis and suspension flex too. Drive train will need to be replaced, etc. t's a long expensive road when you put power into a 914 race car. Why fiddle with nicely balance 4 cylinder car? It's fast local AXer and top of heap in SPU at Hillclimbs . I'd focus on making it fast SPU car - much cheaper route.

Also consider that beyond motor mods hillclimbing and ax rules don't mix well for prepared cars. You can run wing or much aero in SPU or SPO.

If your goal is to have TTOD at both ax and Hillclimbs a blown formula Mazda will get you there easier. I understand the fun in tinkering with a a given platform however. My Z is getting faster and faster but id have to go full tube frame and put motor in middle with twin turbos before I'd have a record setting hillclimb car. Ill settle with something that is fast and has a chance to win its class. But even at 450 NA HP my car will be extreme underdog in SPO with 600 hp plus cars


SPO is a tough class in hill climbs. Sonny's Cobra runs Cascade 7+ seconds faster than I do, but he's making that time differential up on the straights, not the corners. There are a number of formula cars that would make top contender hill climb cars. A Radical running up a hill would be crazy fast and if that doesn't make you happy then move on up to 3.0 liter formula cars.

Actually Brits car would be excellent at hill climbs. Not sure Britain wants to run hill climbs, but (just saying) let Cooper drive it up a hill and see how far it would be off the pace.
brant
Britt would have to rebuild/regear
jhadler
QUOTE(brant @ Aug 5 2013, 01:25 PM) *

Britt would have to rebuild/regear


Just swap out for another gearbox. I know people who swap pumpkins on BMW's depending on the course.

-Josh
brant
QUOTE(jhadler @ Aug 5 2013, 04:44 PM) *

QUOTE(brant @ Aug 5 2013, 01:25 PM) *

Britt would have to rebuild/regear


Just swap out for another gearbox. I know people who swap pumpkins on BMW's depending on the course.

-Josh

True but I believe he has a flipped RP in a 930 box. So the spare box with gears will run 5 grand
Andyrew
QUOTE(grantsfo @ Aug 4 2013, 10:03 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 4 2013, 09:42 AM) *

Grant, How is your Z a 2500lb car???

Semi tube frame, aluminum floors , no dash, eliminated sheet metal info of.


Wow, do you have a pic? I mean that car started out like 3200 lbs right?

Thats substantial...
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.