Hard to see in the photo, but this is exhaust valve in the #4 cylinder.

It is different than the other three. I drew an arrow to the part that is in question.

I just put the motor back in again and I was going to remove the copper exhaust gaskets when I noticed #4 looked different.

Motor turns and I was able to adjust the valves, so I'm not sure if this is a problem or not?

If it is, someone please just $%^@& shoot me.

Thanks,

Len

Click to view attachment

Well, it's a valve guide.

What is the difference between it and the others? Length? Beveled tip?

It isn't a problem anyway.

I was able to push it back easily. Still not a problem?

The valve guide pulled lose from the head....? yank that motor..

New guide must be installed and sized to fit snugly ... otherwise, you will wind up with a blown engine.

I can see the guide is knurled.
Last time that head was in a machine shop the hole was oversize and the dude couldn't find an OS guide, so he knurled the guide, crossed his fingers and hoped it would last long enough.

This motor hasn't run in years, maybe 10 or more, not sure.

Leak down tested good. New front and back seals, new flywheel...

I can't run it this way, so I'm basically trying to figure out next moves.

Not sure if I want to rebuild or buy another motor. At this point a 6 conversion is sounding like something to consider.

IDK I had hopes to it running this week, but that's out.

I'm gonna sit on it for a while.

I need to take a big step back on this project and collect myself.

Do you know if there is anything special about that head? 1.7, 1.8, or 2.0? Your best bet would probably be to remove the head and have is properly repaired, or find a used one.

That's what i would do at least. a 6 conversion takes a long time and a big check book.

Depending on how bold you are, I wouldnt be afraid to remove the cylinder head with the motor in the car.. and just replace it or have it repaired..

1.7 and 1.8 heads are a dime a dozen. Just swap it out and drive it.

Not short on bold. It is a 2.0 motor (75).

I didn't think the head could be removed with the motor mounted. Something about the guide studs being too long to lift the head out?

I'll give it a try, worse case is I need to drop the motor, but I may as well pull both heads off at this point.

Given the knurled guide, I would bet it is not the only one. When you see things like this it is rare that it is the one and only short cut that was taken. I would pull the engine and check both heads. If you fimd nothing else then it can serve as cheap insurance

Head will not come out in the car. Pull the engine, both the heads and get them to a machine shop.

Well, you are correct. Spent the day trying, just to find out (what I expected) that the studs are too long (bottom set) to let you get the head off with the motor in.

Tomorrow is another day... starting out by taking the motor out. Just to make my life a bit easier.

Get George to come over and stop trying to fix the damn thing with the motor in place.

It really does only take an hour or so to take the motor out...
You CAN do it...just have faith. (and George)

rich

I've dropped the motor twice already. I know what's involved. Actually removing the tins wasn't all that difficult, same for the FI equipment, it all came out rather easily (with the motor in the car).

Dropping it tomorrow will be a snap - there really isn't anything on the motor to get hung up - it's basically bare.

So who locally can rebuild the heads? I know of Chilly and Vortex, that's about it.

look up "series 9" here or on the bird board.
He opened a shop to do porsches down in Florida and might have some reputable names he can suggest.

Rich

I just sent Len a PM. What a total freaking bummer. There is a shop locally that does Type 4 heads, and I talked to them in person. Their main machinist is a VW guy and knows his stuff.

http://www.cylinder-heads.com/Home__.html

They're based in Clearwater, FL, but they told me that they're exploded in business over the past few years and now do business globally. Really cool, cause it's family business. They quoted me $250 to R&R a head with new seats and guides, if I remember correctly.

Got those puppies out.

I lowered the motor.... just far enough to have room to pull them off.

Do those snap springs that run the full length of the head serve any purpose? I'm not talking about the springs between the rockers.

What I'm talking about is a single wire snap like spring that sits in notches on the four rocker end pieces.

I can't imagine they do anything? The bolts that hold the rockers on the heads pretty much lock everything down.

push rod tube keeper spring.
Without them , the push rods move out of the motor and all your oil ends up on the ground while driving

rich

,,,,,,As said, without them "earl"(oil) takes a leak!

Anything special on how they go back on? They came out with the rockers, and I really didn't pay much attention to how they were installed.

Pics on this thread:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=207443

You can put them in after the rockers go on.
You get the ends engaged with the rocker stands (rocker stand slots go down), then pop each "keeper" into place with a dental pick or allen wrench.

Stu

I think you mean the "push rod tubes", not the "push rods". Or not ...............

The Cap'n

......Push rod wire

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=218796

Go look at this thread...call the guy.

I'm assuming you think I need a new motor and not just a top end rebuild?

might be a smoking deal...its east coast...

Worth asking...

You may end up with a lot of money into a head job to get those right...never know.
You will need
New valve guides
New valve seats
Possibly new valves depending
Possibly some chamber work to make them match for CC's (this is not an option)

Overall I recall a set of head done right is up over 1k now.
So, that is just for the head...no rings, pistons, gaskets, etc
I recall the last time I went through the exercise of pricing out all the parts, it was less than 2k for parts (pistons and cylinders, camshaft, bearings etc)
Then possibly about 1500-2k for machine work on the heads, case ,and crank.

A used motor is sometime cheaper than a full rebuild, its faster, and its known to run properly already..


rich

Well as it turns out both of my heads are cracked and useless.

That said, I'm now faced with making some sort of decision on next moves.

Who'd you end up taking it to Len? Any chance we can get some pics just for S&Gs?

Total bummer dude. But again, good that you were able to catch this all before you only got a few miles down the road.

This one is #4 exhaust with the guide sitting next to where it should go. If I put that guide in place, it just falls right out the other end.

Click to view attachment

The next two are one from each head.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And that's a wrap folks!

Ouch! Those are toast.

What engine size?

I will have to give it up for Orginal Customs. On my engine McMark strongly suggested new guides. When you see something like that you know why.

That bites.

2.0

Did you ever tell us what size engine you have?

I think I have a perfectly useable set of 1.8s at home...

Stu

Sorry, didnt notice the tiny '2.0' above......

I have seen a couple of recent posts for 2.0 heads. But they are not cheap. Given an engine that has not run in 10 years and was last running in that condition there have to be other issues. Metal in the oil had to reach other places.

So if you are a gambling man get new heads and put them on and hope for the best.

Next would be to at least remove one rod to check the bearings. If they don't show excessive wear then you are still gambling when you just put it back and go.

Next is rebuild or used motor. Neither is cheap but one is faster.

In this position would he be looking at new cylinders while at it, or does one generally reuse them with maybe new pistons and rings? How much is reusable if the engine was in worn but otherwise OK shape. Obviously that can't apply to the cylinder heads, but curious. That sort of information is helpful in costing out things.

Its a choice.

You can rehone your cylinders, and in some cases re use the pistons, provided they are within tolerances.

Many people take this type of an opportunity to buy larger pistons which require larger cylinders.

Another choice
You could buy pistons and cylinders together, but you run the risk of getting cylinders that are not round, but oval, and possibly made from inferior materials.
OR
You could take your existing cylinders to a shop and have them bored out to the larger pistons, up to 96mm, and match the new pistons to the cylinders.

So, there are choices people make when building motors...some cost more, some cost less.

I would still suggest taking a long hard look at the two used motors currently for sale...one above at the link I already put here, and I saw another one in the Classiifieds.

Both motors could be obtained for less than getting the heads fixed, and /or less than buying new heads and getting them fixed.

rich

Looking at option of buying a new (rebuilt) motor - use this one as a core.

Sad too, it really is a clean (looking) motor.