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t1mg
Hi! Long story short, I Greyhounded it to LA to pick up a 1974 fuel injected 2.0, had the clutch go out in the Mojave, then towed it with my Grandpa's help to Utah. A year or so later, it made it to its destination in Denver. I had no problem with mechanical fixes like dropping the transmission and installing a new clutch assembly, but the problem now is electrical, which is not so much in my scope of knowledge.

Facts:
The engine makes a weak attempt, but cannot turn over on its own; it needs jumping to go.
The engine can start and revs/idles well once jumped, producing some backfires occasionally (separate issue?).
Replaced battery, to no avail.
Meter shows continuity between positive and negative battery terminals, but not between the four red wires and the negative ground terminal.

Assumed initial diagnosis:
Battery is not the issue. Transmission Ground strap also not.
Alternator likely not the issue.
Key switch, fuses, and relay not the issue.
Problem is a short circuit/bad ground somewhere in the remaining electrical.

Questions:
Do these initial assumptions sound right? What is the best route towards pinpointing the problem?

Thank you for any insight and direction you may have!
McMark
Focus on this first:
QUOTE
The engine makes a weak attempt, but cannot turn over on its own; it needs jumping to go.

Attach your volt meter to the bolt on the starter (where the battery cable attaches). Make sure to get a good clean connection. Report what voltage you're seeing on the meter while sitting and while cranking.
Tom
Sounds like you have a problem in the 4 red wires at the battery positive. remove and wire brush them so there is a good connection. This may solve or give you new symptoms. After you perform some diagnosis, let us know what the result is.
Tom
stugray
QUOTE
Meter shows continuity between positive and negative battery terminals, but not between the four red wires and the negative ground terminal.


What do you mean?
"Continuity" means you are measuring resistance and what you are seeing is low.

Do you mean voltage?

Also - look for a relay that might have been installed near the starter.
If a PO has installed a solenoid relay, it might be the probelm.

Stu (what part of Denver?)
76-914
did you reconnect the ground strap on the tranny?
Jonathan Livesay
QUOTE(McMark @ Sep 6 2013, 08:12 PM) *

Focus on this first:
QUOTE
The engine makes a weak attempt, but cannot turn over on its own; it needs jumping to go.

Attach your volt meter to the bolt on the starter (where the battery cable attaches). Make sure to get a good clean connection. Report what voltage you're seeing on the meter while sitting and while cranking.


I had a similar problem with my '66 912 which was finally solved by replacing the heavy cable from the battery to the starter. With no load I would measure 12 volts at the starter but when I turned it over it would drop to less than 6 volts, the solenoid would kick out and the engine would turn over but not fast enough to start. I ran a new cable through the tunnel and presto no more starting problems.
That cable on a 914 is not nearly as long so it might not be the problem, but it is also a lot easier to replace so it might be worth a try.
rhodyguy
is the main cable to the starter laying on top of the trans?
r_towle
QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 7 2013, 11:06 AM) *

did you reconnect the ground strap on the tranny?

agree.gif
Spoke
QUOTE(t1mg @ Sep 6 2013, 11:06 PM) *

Hi! Long story short, I Greyhounded it to LA to pick up a 1974 fuel injected 2.0, had the clutch go out in the Mojave, then towed it with my Grandpa's help to Utah. A year or so later, it made it to its destination in Denver.


It took a year to deliver? You are one patient man.

welcome.png
t1mg
I checked on a few of your suggestions this week:

The grounding strap at the transmission is connected and in good condition.

It doesn't look like a solenoid relay was installed on the starter. Here's a picture of that.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13777012@N02/...321329/sizes/l/
IPB Image

I couldn't find out what the wires coming out of the transmission are, but I'm guessing for a gauge? Anyone out there know?

Of course my voltmeter breaks when I go to use it, so I will fix that and get a voltage reading from the starter next.

I did, however, try turning the engine again. The wipers and all lighting systems seem to work. It took a few tries to get the engine to turn, and then if I didn't keep the revs up, it would die in idle. It only turned when the car jumping it was revving it's engine and I had the fuel peddle down in the 914; maybe some clues?



Also discovered: An unconnected wire between the distributor and air cleaner and one below the battery tray. Here are pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13777012@N02/...316743/sizes/l/
IPB Image

That's the throttle return spring at bottom, to tell you where we are.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13777012@N02/...in/photostream/
IPB Image

(Tray is still wet from baking soda and water.)



Any expertise on where these connect to? Searched but only found possibly to the cold start or thermal switch for the first picture?

Hope your weekends are nice, and thanks again for any ideas and help!
t1mg
QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Sep 7 2013, 09:38 AM) *

is the main cable to the starter laying on top of the trans?


Hi! It looks like it is; goes from the battery, over the trans, to the starter. The cable seemed to be in good condition - no wear or heat damage to the casing. I included a pic above.
t1mg
QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 7 2013, 09:06 AM) *

did you reconnect the ground strap on the tranny?


Connected and secure!
t1mg
QUOTE(stugray @ Sep 6 2013, 09:20 PM) *

QUOTE
Meter shows continuity between positive and negative battery terminals, but not between the four red wires and the negative ground terminal.


What do you mean?
"Continuity" means you are measuring resistance and what you are seeing is low.

Do you mean voltage?

Also - look for a relay that might have been installed near the starter.
If a PO has installed a solenoid relay, it might be the probelm.

Stu (what part of Denver?)



Thanks for the suggestions.

It looks like there is no starter near the relay. I included a pic further down. Any clue what those wires from the trans are? When fixing the clutch assembly, I replaced the damaged wires that were there with the red and blue ones seen in the pic.

I haven't measured any voltages yet, but will get a new volt meter and try at the battery with the car off, cranking, and running. Any other helpful measurements?

I was trying to measure continuity to see if there was a flow of electricity where there shouldn't be.

Thanks again for any further suggestions!

Also, I'm from Park Hill, Denver.
Kirmizi
The wires from the transaxle are for the reverse lights, that's the switch. biggrin.gif

t1mg
QUOTE(Spoke @ Sep 7 2013, 12:19 PM) *

QUOTE(t1mg @ Sep 6 2013, 11:06 PM) *

Hi! Long story short, I Greyhounded it to LA to pick up a 1974 fuel injected 2.0, had the clutch go out in the Mojave, then towed it with my Grandpa's help to Utah. A year or so later, it made it to its destination in Denver.


It took a year to deliver? You are one patient man.

welcome.png



Oh! A patient man, but if anything can test patience, it is this car. It reminds me of Alex from 'A Clockwork Orange' for its trouble-making and because one of the pop-up light trim cowlings is white and the other black.
IPB Image
timothy_nd28
QUOTE(t1mg @ Sep 6 2013, 07:06 PM) *


Facts:
The engine makes a weak attempt, but cannot turn over on its own; it needs jumping to go.
The engine can start and revs/idles well once jumped, producing some backfires occasionally (separate issue?).
Replaced battery, to no avail.
Meter shows continuity between positive and negative battery terminals, but not between the four red wires and the negative ground terminal.




First off, welcome.png

The backfiring is a separate issue
What size battery did you install, how old is it?
What continuity does your meter show between the positive and negative battery terminals?

Consider removing the battery and have it checked at your auto parts store.
While waiting, pick out a pre-fabbed battery cable that will reach from the main ground post (behind the battery) to the bellhousing or starter bolt. This maynot be the problem, but having a good ground there won't hurt one bit.
timothy_nd28
Instead of measuring resistance between the battery posts, switch the setting on your meter to measure DC amps. Your meter may or maynot have this feature. If it does, what is the maximum rating it can measure (in amps).

With the ignition switch off, disconnect the negative battery terminal and put the black meter lead on the negative battery post. Take your red meter lead, and attach it to the negative terminal on the cable. Is there any readings on your meter? Do not turn the ignition switch on when performing this test.
Dave_Darling
Your other two mystery wires:

- Power wire to the AAR; the connector is near the distributor
- Signal wire for the oil temp sensor has a connector below the battery

I'm thinking that the battery (+) cable may have problems.

--DD
Eric_Shea
QUOTE
I'm thinking that the battery (+) cable may have problems.


agree.gif That big black wire coming off the top of your starter solenoid and going back to your battery. Trace it and make sure everything is good and clean there (as Tom had suggested earlier). It is charging and the battery is a known good battery?

welcome.png
Spoke
Get someone to help you.

Remove the battery clamps and clean the clamps and battery posts.

Measure battery voltage at several places when someone cranks the engine.

Measure at:
1) battery positive on the battery post to chassis ground.
2) battery positive on the clamp to chassis ground. You are looking for voltage drop. 1) and 2) should be very similar during cranking. Sometimes there is oxidation between the battery posts and clamps.
3) Measure voltage on starter to chassis. Again you're looking for voltage drops.
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