I'm in the process of installing the Pertronix ignition, but before I do, I wanted to

A: confirm the advance was working
B: regarding McMarks thread, make sure I didn't have interference with the little advance needle


While removing the points, I see a little movement (very little) of the plate. But when hooking a hose up, and sucking on it, I'm able to get any movement at all.

How freely should the plate move (how much vacuum is needed to get it to move?

How much movement should there be in the plate?

Is there a way to lubricate the plate, without dismantling the vacuum advance? (nervous enough just having removed the distributor)

Thx, Turk

I removed the plate in mine last weekend. I'm glad that I did, it was actually pretty easy.

what should be used to lubricate the plate? Lithium grease?

I've read the "suck on it" thing. I have never been able to suck hard enough to make the advance move. It takes much more suction that I have. Can't imagine anyone who can.

Looks like the model of the Distributor is correct for my 73 2.0L according to PBanders site:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

It should move pretty easy. A thick milkshake through a straw is more than enough pressure to move the advance plate.

That plate is jacked up, and needs to be cleaned.

The arm should easily move by suction. If not ....you need to rebuild it or replace the diaphragm canister. This will cause a vacuum leak.

Pull the c clip off the arm, detach the arm, see of the plates move freely....probably not.

Btw, this is a whole lot easier if you just remove the clamp nut Ann washer, then pull the unit out, work on it on the bench.

Remember which way it is positioned.....the bottom tooth can only fit on way, so just remember where it was facing for timing it to get it started before you use a timing gun.


For grease, I use wheel bearing grease.
Remove the plates, remove the little clip that goes around both plates, remove the little ball in there, don't lose it, don't shoot it across the room, move slowly and work on a towel or rag so that ball can't get away from you.


Then clean the plates off, they do come apart once the clip is off, but it's probably a tight fit.

Don't damage the copper wire, just lay them open and clean them

Smear both mating surfaces with grease, then the ball.
Put the clip back on and test to make sure they now move freely.

Rich

And check this post for wear. Any type of corrosion means material is being removed. I had a friend's dist. that could not be timed and it was worn here. Even after checking the CHT

Click to view attachment

Pick up a vacuum pump, HF has them for about $20, attach to vac canister and pull 15-20#. it should hold if good and as you are pulling a vacuum you should see the arm moving the plate.

Keith

Thanks all.

I was able to clean and lube the advance plate and vacuum arm, and get the advance to move more easily.

I installed everything and timed the engine and its running pretty well. The exception is its 'hunting' at idle, and I think this is a vacuum leak that I have to track down. (I have a new set of vacuum hoses on the way from AA).

I'm still pretty sure that the distributor needs a rebuild, and I'll look into that. I'm gonna need to get the vacuum pump from HF and confirm the vacuum canister on the distrib is working correctly.

One of the reasons I did this was I needed to get a rebuilt MPS installed (thanks Jeff B. for the rebuild) to cure the rich running I was experiencing at all times. I did that and I am really happy to have that rich running and fuel smell gone.

Turk

Sometimes life sucks ! and It will suck easily.

Test the advance and retard can on the dizzy as mentioned.

It could be the source of your hunting idle.....leak.

Is it possible to rebuild the Advance can on the distrib? or are there replacement can's available for purchase?

How likely is it to find a replacement for this model distributor? Seems unlikely

You don't need it.
Pull the hose off and cap the hose.

Vacuum advance is to get it off idle faster into the advance curve, but it will run fine without the vacuum advance.

All the way up till these cars, the mechanical advance was plenty.

Rich

Yeah, it'll run okay if you don't mind mediocre accelleration. With the vacuum advance fuctioning properly I hit the gas and go. Without the vac advance functioning my car is a dog taking off. I'd always opt to have the vac advance (a working one).

Shop around, used cannisters are out there. Might try Bruce Stone.

Keith

Have you adjusted your valves yet? My wife's car would 'hunt for idle' even after I replaced all the vac hoses.

I found cylinder # 4 was adjusted too tight. I re-adjusted the valves to spec and the hunting stopped

I should have done the valve adjustment first, but I was just being plain old lazy (I really don't like doing valve adjustments, plus I didn't have my lift at that time - just jack stands)

He is troubleshooting.
Pull the hose off the distributor and plug the line. See if it helps your Idle issue.

Simple test, then you can decide if you need to find and replace the canister.

Rich

Yep, I'll try plugging the hose, and see if that addresses the idle hunting. (That should be a sign that the can diaphragm is bad as well, huh?).

I have the valve adjust materials, and oil change stuff coming, hopefully in a few days from AA.

I'll keep my eye out for a can, or even a full distrib. I found a couple of references to this place that rebuilds distributors:
http://www.philbingroup.com/rebuilt/distributors.htm

I may consider that as well...

I still need to, after the valve adjustment, verify my timing and make sure its spot on... I'm wondering if the "27 BTDC" is still correct if the vacuum advance is not working correctly?

Any other suggestions?

One more question, I'm confused as to what the mark is on the distributor that the rotor should point to when at TDC, mine appears to point to the little line in the distributor case, not the big 'ol notch.. see pic. Which is the correct mark?

Click to view attachment

Make sure to check the other end of the hose too. I replaced a Vac can just to find out it was the other end of the hose that was leaking. and throttle body gasket..and intake runners...and passenger side intake gasket.

Little line.

next time mark the top edge of the housing centered on the rotor with a sharpie. don't rotate the engine. drop it back in and rotate the dist so the rotor lines up with the mark. you will at least be back where you started. then check timing.

k

Here is how I honestly do it.

Go to the hardware store and buy a few packs of rubber caps.
Remove EVERY vacuum line from the plenum except the MPS.

Car will start, run and idle properly setup like that.

Then, test the intake tube hoses, clamp all of them with screw clamps if required, reseal the intake gaskets at the head, and check or redo the injector seals.

Then, if you idle is still flaky, its not a vacuum leak...you need to look at TPS, timing, distributor, MPS, ECU, Temp sendors, or wiring.

So, I remove all vacuum to start with to do a more systematic diagnostic of the idle...
If once you get the system to idle, add ONE line at a time to check if that system is what is affecting the idle...

So you Decel valve might do it...
OR
your AAR might do it.

So plug only one in at a time, not both.

Rich