anybody heard of a V-TEC conversion for the 914. KEP could probably come up with an adapter if he doesn't have one already. but, will a front drive motor work with a rear drive tranny? does the crankshaft spin in the same direction? anyone hear of any other front drive engine conversions? my 914 deserves more power than i can afford to get out of my type 4 motor. for the cost of nickies and upright cooling and head work, etc. i could have a turbo vtec setup.

fire away...

ricer

Many fwd engines do spin in the right direction, but Hondas are weird, and a lot of them spin the wrong way. This can still be fixed. One can use a 915 gearbox w/o flipping the diff, or you can flip the diff on a 914 gearbox.

The next step is figuring out if the engine will even clear everything in the engine bay. Some inline fours are too long to fit w/o lots of cutting. The turbo Soob engines fit well, and make lots of power.

Blasphemizer!!! You'll roast in 914 hell for it!

Now that being said, there is (was?) a kit at KEP for such a swap, but you will have to get a 911 tranny, or flip the ring gear as the 4cyl Hon-duhs turn the other way (they're just funny that way). If you want more HP for less $$ and you want something unique that will enrage the purists, I have a corvair engine that will bolt up with less modification I have it rigged to turn the right way and to put out 170-180hp.

What do you figure a V-Tech conversion would cost? Always double that amount.

Buy muellers engine adapter and all. Vr6

Muellers selling the VR6!? What happened?

Check the Classifieds

FS: '74 chassis, w/cage and sorted suspension bunch of pictures Mueller

i thought a v-tec conversion would enrage the purists enough? guess i was wrong.
i like the v-tec cause its got a billion hop-up parts and lately i've been drooling over variable valve timing engines.

A billion and one "bling bling - makah no power" parts you mean. I don't count turbo's as a special "hop up part" for a Honda because you can turbo any car. Most of the Honda stuff is relegated to bolt on headers, intakes, etc. If you are going to go turbo with an engine transplant stick to a motor that was turbo'd to begin with. Perhaps a 3SGTE from Toyota. I actually bought one for my 914 but sold it when I got my 20b. As for the whole Vtec thing - highly overated in my opinion. All you get is a little power surge in a small part of your powerband. Mostly marketing hype.

It seems the money that isn't being figured is the conversion materials. Motor to motor a (stock) T4 sucks cost and power-wise against a V-TEC, but if you figure all the $$$ and time spent on installing said V-TEC, you'd be equal with a built T4, for less effort. Then there's the whole down-time component of converting to a different motor. blah, blah, blah...

Sell your 14, buy a Honda and be happy!

True sports cars were about handling as opposed to horsepower.

yep...VR6 engine and adapter are for sale ....175 hp stock and you keep the car German powered (I'm going with a 2316 Type IV)

as said before, the 4 banger hondas turn the wrong direction (the V6 go the correct way), you are on your own for motor mounts and how to wire it up to your car to get it running...about the only thing you can use knowledge wise from other swaps is how to do the cooling (complete kits or Mickey Mouse Engineering )

That's too bad. I was hoping to see the VR6 install thread. The only Honda motor that I know of that goes the right direction is out of the S2000. But for the price of one of those you would be better off with a Porsche 6.

I'm a little disappointed as well, but the more I thought about it, the VR6 engine swap would just be a novelty with no real value except bragging rights perhaps??

Balderdash...... tell it to Ferrari.

That was a line promougated by old European (mostly English) car fanatics who had (via tax laws) no horsepower to speak of.
Oddly enuff, most all of these wankers worked real hard to get more power into these shitboxes.

Horsepower is now and will always be.....glorius.

VR6 = $$$. i'm leaning towards the honda because i have a few "hook-ups" for parts and engines. i agree with the bling bling parts, but the fact is that there is a wide selection of parts to choose from, and not all of it is bling bling. i don't think the v-tec is hype, its just a different way of squeezing horsepower out of a small engine. i'd probably wouldn't even go the turbo route if i got the v-tec, i'm just saying that to get a similar amount of power out of the type 4, i could have a turbo motor that would be smokin' that expensive type 4.

the motor mounts is something that would be a challenge though. and i was thinking about the 3sgte motor too. but, that 3sgte isn't all that cheap or easy to come by either. maybe an sr20det?

oh i feel so ricer. shame on me.

You have to remember it's not just peak numbers that count. That is something that the Honda crowd has been sold on for years. Making 200 hp over 200 rpm is not useful for anything other than bragging rights. Take a look at the new Celica. A friend of mine bought one and it's a dog until the varible valve timing kicks in. He has to shift almost immediately after it hits though and then he's back out of his powerband. A stock 140 hp 13b RX7 from 1987 stayed with him all the way through the gears even though his car is advertised to have "190 hp".

I bought my 3SGTE for $1100 and sold it for $1300. They aren't that hard to find. A nissan engine would be nice - a member here has a Maxima engine in his 914. They make power the old fashioned way - displacement or forced induction.

i wouldn't mind having the nissan motor, but again, cost and availability for me are the issues. it would probably be simpler to mount a RWD motor, but like i said i have good resources for the honda stuff. and i don't mind wringing my motor silly in order to make power. did you have any ideas on mounting the mr2 motor? i do work at a toyota dealer, so the 3sgte might not be that bad of an idea either.

anyone want to buy a 2.0 type4 with complete fi and alot of new parts? lemme know.

Sung to the tune of "Ice Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice.


"Rice Rice Baby...... Rice Rice Baby"


Don't be a rice boy... if you gotta go conversion, go for the mega-HP. Put a 502 Chebbie Rat motor with a blower in a 914! Now that would be "overkill".....

I think:

Clay,
For all that hatred of rice, you must have had your 914 smoked by some "ricer" in a civic.

I agree with JP. Horsepower rules. If you don't have it you are just another toy car that should be in the slow lane.

Honda makes some good stuff. They were the first manufacture to make the 100hp/litre mark and have a reliable daily driver. Plus you can make them handle great. I have seen many a turbo and non turbo civic with enough power to walk away from most 911s and 914-6s. Boy that will really piss off some of the Porsch owners. Built right I have seen a few that could out handle some 911s and 914s. You can build a lot of power inexpensively with Honda parts. There is a huge aftermarket for them as well. I have seen street driven 200-600hp civics. So what if they are wrong wheel drive and the engine is in front of the driver.

The Civic, Focus, Corolla, Celica, Golf, GT are the new tri-year Chevies, Novas, Lemans, Darts, etc. Like it or not they are the future.

I don't hate Japanese tuner cars. I hate riceboy POSEURS who slap stickers and fart cans on their cars and think that they can smoke a Viper when they don't know the proper way to install their lug nuts.

I know a lot of Japanese cars that can smoke a 914. That's not the point. I will rag a poseur in a 914 or 911 who puts a bunch of race look junk on the outside of a stock car.

Fastest car I ever drove was a Honda. It was a Honda 600 (read tiny little car with 2 cylinder, air cooled 600cc motor cycle engine). The owner bought it from a guy who transplanted an 1100 Hurrincane motor into it. 70 MPH and it could lay waste to a Corvette with ease. Even had a sequecial shifter.

I don't hate Japanese cars. I hate the Poseurs they attract.

, you can pick them up in good shape and running from $500 (what I paid) to $1000 all day long



I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you have to ask questions like that, then a swap like this is not for you, there are no part numbers to go by...test fitting and fabrication is going to be required....do some research and find pictures of other swaps, this will give you a general idea of how to do it......

the adapter plate and flywheel is going to cost $500 no matter what engine swap you decide on.....unless you very creative and have access to the machining to do so and even then, it's still going to cost some money as long as you do everything correct the first time.

why does everybody have to rain on my parade? don't blame honda/toyota/nissan for all the ricer crap that's out there. i have no problem putting a jap motor with reliable horsepower in my 914. the only problem is how it will fit...

i'm fully aware that some(maybe alot) of fabrication will be required. thankfully my dad's a great machinist and my bro's a super welder. if we put our heads together we could probably figure something out. but that's not to say that i mind pirating some or all of someone elses good idea i'll fess up that it wasn't my idea if someone asks me. i'll give credit where it is due.

just about anything will fit....Chevy V8s are installed into 914s on almost a weekly basis...the "biggest" engine I've seen in a 914 is a 928 engine, after that one, the rest are a piece of cake....so yes, your honda/toyota engine will fit (stay away from the straight 6's from toyota, too long unless you want to cut the firewall)

You yourself said "fire away" in your opening post. You didn't expect anti-ricer flames? Hey, you started it...

Nothing wrong with a Jap motor in the 914. The VTEC may not be the best Jap motor to go with. Lots of other Jap engines spin in the correct direction, and can make more power than you can reasonably use w/o spending big money on gearboxes, and are known to clear the engine bay. If you're in to trying something new, then go for it, but don't expect much help, as no one else will know anything specific to tell you. Fitting any alternate engine is going to require fabrication of parts you simply cannot buy. You won't be able to buy an exhaust for a VTEC or most other engines that will work in a 914. You won't be able to buy an engine mount for these things. Both will need to be made up custom. The fact that turbo kits are available for the VTEC is rendered moot by the fact that you're not mounting it in a Honda. The exhaust will still have to be done up custom.

In short, what you're proposing is a fairly big deal, and the fact that you can get special pricing on some internal engine parts isn't going to do much about that. If you can weld and fabricate, then stop talking and start doing. No one else can help much, as no one else has done what you're trying to do. If you can't weld or fabricate, you'll need to learn or open your wallet wide.

This isn't raining on your parade, this is being realistic. If you really want to do it, then do it. I'm sure many of us would be very pleased to see the final product and would like to hear about how you did it. Ground-breaking is expensive, though.

Read your PMs.

my co-worker has a twin turbo supra running 20psi of boost. all i can say is

the fabrication and welding shouldn't be a problem, but since family members are doing it, it may take a while(sighhhhh). i just hope my old man doesn't retire before i get a chance to start on such a project. if he does, then i'll have to make friends with the local machine shop. and i don't mind the ricer flames, i'm not a ricer. i just don't like having to face the truth...that no matter what, my dreams will take time and money to realize. i hate the real world! :finger2: anyone know the nubers to the winning lottery ticket? i'll give you a high-five for it!

cash works wonders with making friends

back to the subject at hand, i've seen some subaru, v8, v6, rotary conversions, but no inline 4 conversions. i don't think anyone on the board has one. anybody seen one before?

When ya do the swap....don't forget the fart can.....

Start a spread sheet on the Costs,
engine
adapter
and so on

I was thinking that economically , I bet that the VR6 set up is priced right , and is different.
Thats .002 cents please

yep....4 cylinder dodge/chrysler turbo motor has been done.........for the cost and time involved, there are better choices than a 4 banger motor and the fact that there are a few kits for V8s and V6's, so that is why there are more....

A couple points here...

First, Honda's version of the "which cam do you want now?" is called VTEC. V-TECH is a manufacturer of shitty telephone equipment.

Note that Honda was the first one to come out with a mechanism to switch cam profiles on the fly, and that other companies like Toyota and even Porsche (Variocam-Plus) have emulated them.

Second, the K-series engines (S2000, the modern Civic) all turn the "standard" direction. Older B-, D-, and H-series engines all turn the "wrong" way.

Third, the only engine swaps you will find off-the-shelf parts to bolt together for are the 911 engine swaps and the small-block Shebby swaps. Anything else will involve measuring, fabrication, hair-pulling, trial and error, and repeat all of that until you start to go crazy. And it may very well be worth it, if you're proud of the results.

Finally, most of the Honda engines have reasonable power curves. The typical recipie seems to be to take a four-banger motor with an OK power band that idles fine and is pretty flexible, and to keep that setup for low-RPM operation. Then for high RPMs, they switch over to the cam lobes with lots of lift and duration--which helps make high power. Even at lower RPMs, they're not too bad. Especially in a lightweight car.

The Celica and S2000 are evidently the worst of the lot for being gutless when on the low-RPM cam. From my readings, the Celica is a whole lot worse than the RSX Type-S in this respect, and may even be worse than the S2K! Imagine that, an engine with less "flexibility" than the S2K?? (One comparo article I read said that the Celica's motor "out-Hondas Honda".) Most of the Honda mills tend to be decent or at least half-decent at low revs, and really very good indeed at high revs. You could do much worse than to put an RSX Type-S motor into your 914... But those are pretty spendy motors, because all the guys with regular (current-model) Civics want them for engine swaps...

A B-series, like a B18C1 (Integra GS-R) could be nice. Something on the order of 150 lb-ft of torque and 180 HP should help a lightweight 914 get out of its own way. But again, it may be more $$ than you would like to spend because lots of Civic drivers want to swap a GS-R motor into their car. And remember, the B-series spins the "wrong way".

And on and on it goes.


...And yes, my other car is a Honda!!

--DD

thanks for the tips dave. i'm thinking that the only hard part of the swap is going to be the motor mounts. i'd probably use one of those v8 radiator kits and a kep adapter and flywheel. i'm pretty sure my bro can help weld up an exhaust and brackets and stuff. i'm still wondering if a RWD motor would be easier as far as the motor mounts go.

IIRC, the engine mounting points on many fwd engines assume that the transaxle is used for some of the mounting. There's nearly always a mount at the nose of the engine, where the timing belt is located; and another mount on the "front" of the engine (side that faces front when mounted in an fwd car). The "rear" mount (side that faces the firewall) is often on the transaxle, so there's nothing to bolt to if you remove the transaxle.

You might be able to ignore that and simply use the "nose" mount on the 914 firewall, relying on the mounts at the gearbox tail to take up the lateral forces. This is basically what the orignal 914/6 mounting system does. If that works, then the engine mount might not be all that bad. This frees up a lot of space on the sides for exhaust and intake.

The chief difficulty I see with this mounting system would be that most inline fours shake a good deal, a lot more than the flat six does. All of that shaking would be transmitted through the geabox to the rear mounts, which will probably have a significantly shorter life than with a flat four or six.

noway, gotta have DUAL fart cans!

so maybe i could weld up some kind of mount at the firewall and then maybe some tube steel from the side of the engine compartment to the mount on the "front" of the
motor. hmmmm. i need to go look at some honda motors.

The D- and I believe B-series motors mount thus:

There is a left-side mount that goes in the middle of the timing belt. (Yeah, you have to remove one mount to replace the t-belt. And you gotta do that every 60K miles.)

There is a right-side mount on the end of the transmission.

There is a front mount from the transmission onto the forward crossmember.

There is a rear mount from the transmission onto the rear crossmember.

I just did a transmission swap on the CRX last Sunday, so this is fresh in my mind....

--DD

So, there are NO engine mounts on the engine itself other than the "front" mount through the timing belt. I suspect this isn't uncommon practice on other fwd cars, either.

It's purely speculation on my part about the shaking causing any long-term problems with the 914 gearbox mounts. Seems plausible, but it may amount to nothing. It could also rip the mounts out in a 100 miles. No telling until some sucker tries it...

maybe a 911, i've never heard of a honda outhandling a well built 914. and i doubt i will.....

the only japanese motor id consider giving up PCA membership for would be an STI Subaru motor. something like 280lbft of torque and around 300hp, imagine hooking that up to a built 915 gearbox...

ive been thinking about potential powerplants: 928 motor? too heavy for AX. Chevy? hell no! 2316cc turbotype4? not enough longevity and too much money!! porsche 6? i wish i was rich enough.

i would totally love to do a twin turbo typeiv of a reasonable displacement (2056-2316) but i dont know exactly how im going to build the heads to handle lots of boost pressure. anybody know of any companies that do individual heads per cylinder (4 heads, 2v per)? ive spent some time looking at the heads and block on a type iv and it looks like it will certainly be a hell of a challenge to do a twin turbo typeIV right. ive heard that beveling head/mating surface to fit in each other and running the motor rich to form a carbon seal to hold high head pressure.

i have to go to pick n pull to look for a tail light for my corolla anyways on sunday. i'm gonna take a long hard look at some honda motors and think about them while i dig through my hell hole on monday. just one mount on the motor side sounds kind of flimsy to me. maybe there are some areas on the honda motor that could recieve a mount. i'll have to take a look.

and about the ring and pinion in the 901, is it as easy as i dont think it is to "flip" in order to work with the honda motors rotation. i have a feeling there's some machine work involved, or something.

i think you just answered your own question.

that sounds like a "dare"!

Get a reverse rotation camshaft and spin the motor backwards. There problem solved. Really dropping one of the B20s or H22s should make a nice little street motor. Slap a turbo there and run 400+ and you would have a really ass kicker. Grab whole front clip and engine wiring harness. You would have to do some minor work and it should wire right in. Get either Uberdata, AEM or Hondata and hand tweak the computer for your application. Buy a set of headers and just run it like the factory did and route it out the drivers side of the motor, straight out the back.

You should not have any more headaches than these other people that do conversions.

The 928 motor weighs more than a cast iron small block engine. Not worth it. the Scubby motor would be really neat. Forget building a turbo T4, RIGHT. Until there are some better heads it is not worth it.

All this talk about power and handling with Hondas, lets just see for ourselves. I'll take this engine as a swap anyday. He can keep the brakes though. Watch and see. http://cs.widener.edu/%7Eepanek/Watkins%20...Sept%2027th.mpg

Brett: I don't know what part of the world you live in but around here I don't know of a single 400 hp honda let alone 600 hp. I would think such a car would be extremely rare and extremely expensive to build. I stand by the claim that bang for the buck a honda engine is NOT the way to go to get big horsepower. As Dave mentioned the factory has done a lot with the engines in stock form and getting any more from them means going forced induction. If you are going forced induction you might as well start with an engine that has more potential. A reliable turbocharged honda engine is expensive to put together in a honda let alone graft into a 914. Any cost savings he might get from his connections will be ate up by the number of modifications he will need to get decent power from his engine. IE: Buy a vtec motor and turbocharge it or just buy a 3sgte? For the vtec motor you will need to buy the turbo, wastegate, manifold, engine management system and probably change the injector sizes for beginners. And then you have all the headaches of tuning and trying to keep the engine from blowing itself up. For the 3sgte you use the stock ecu and turn up the boost a little - maybe change the injectors or increase fuel pressure if needed. Which do you think would be the better choice?

I used to own a Honda Prelude and it was a nice car but only after I bought my 944 turbo did I find out that the Honda was gutless. On top of that the mods that most people "get hooked up with" are things like exhausts, headers, intakes, etc. and these for the most part give only minimal gains. A guy I ran with in Solo 1 found out that the Mugen header on his Type R actually cost him a few hundreths of a second a lap. He did better with the stock system.

okay...here is the drivers side* of a 4 banger honda motor
the 2 red circles are towards the front of the engine, a mount can be made to bolt there and go forward, this in turn would mate to a mount that you have bolted/welded to the firewall





*once motor turned 90° in the correct orientation

now if you look at the other side of the engine, the blue circles are the factory motor mounts if you removed that , the 2 red circles have bosses that can be used to mount the motor.....pretty simple if you ask me

if space permitted, you could always fabricate a mount that ties the the "drivers side" of the engine to the factory mount (in blue) and hang the motor off the front of the engine....this is sorta how it is done on Boxsters and factory 914/6 engines (even some 914 /6 conversions with much bigger engines)