My carbed 2056 is still just running too hot. Flaps are right and timing is not too far advanced. Will reduce timing to 25 and try again but I think I need an external oil cooler quick.

Is there an easy add system that doesn't require pulling the engine to install and does not cost too much? Any suggestions would be helpful!

Retarding timing elevates EGT and will build head temps too.

If your OT is too high in the cool weather our region has been experiencing lately, you definitely have something contributing to it. A 2056 seldom needs more than a stock oil cooler, even in hot climates.

Sounds like an underlying issue that you hope to fix with a band aid.

Sometimes people say that it is running too hot.
Is it knocking? Are you using the original stock temp gauge & sender?

I tried to fix my car long ago that was "too hot".
I did everything including reducing CR, then discovered my temp sender was bad.

Changed it out and suddenly it was running just right!

Jake I hope to not take that approach. While we all think we have thought of everything there is always something we can miss. Thanks for the reminder to check the simple stuff so here is what I have done.

I have verified that the flaps are in the correct position to direct air flow through the cooler.

I have verified the temp with an external thermometer, when the gauge is moving toward red is 240 F or higher.

Click to view attachment

This corresponds closely to the range I am using for comparison.

Click to view attachment

So the heat problem seems real and verifiable.

This is a new build 2056 with new jugs, pistons, and valve job with new guides. 2.0 head vents are still in place and routed to external vent. Oil cooler seals replaced and there is no blockage of the cooler or air paths. Verified with bore scope.

Valves seem to be adjusted. Checked twice.

Running weber 44s, 28, vents, 60 idle jets, 1.45 mains, 175 air correction jets, and F-11 emulsion tubes.

Have SVDA dizzy and 27 of advance at 3000 rpm no vac. New stock coil. Have slight pinging on full load as the engine gets warmer. Not present when cool.

Plugs show a good burn not lean. Plugs set to stock gap 28 to 30 I think.

All engine tin is in place. Impeller is turning.

So there is nothing that leaps out at me as a problem. That kind of goes without saying.

The heat seems to build up slowly on longer drives at interstate speeds. To me this looks like a heat dissipation problem. But I may be missing what is causing the heat.

Thoughts?

Couple of q's.

Do you still have the late exchangers? They cause it to run hotter.

Have you verified the part # of your sender as per your graphic?

Is your pic where it normally runs? On the"p"? That's where mine runs too . I'm good with it. That's the same place it ran with my stock 2L.

This would be my suggestion as well. Maybe your sender and or gauge is bad. Try a new gauge and sender and replace any wiring with new. You might try a dip stick gauge as well. Maybe you can borrow one. Try some easy relatively cheap things before you start on an external cooler that you might not need. From the picture, it looks like that gauge is a bit old?

What oil are you using? Mine runs about 20 degrees hotter with Brad Penn 20-50 than with Joe Gibbs DT 50.

I did swap gauges and got the same results which were verified by a separate external temperature measurement. Even if the gauges are a little off, it is still running at 240+ on cool days. The top of the normal range is around 220 F so 240 F is too high.

While I know that is not excessively hot, it is still too warm. When in traffic today it started passing the "P" on the gauge so i know it is going beyond 240.

So I think I have looked at the actual engine temp and collected enough data to confirm it is too warm regardless of the gauge reading. So unless I missed something I have to focus on finding an under laying cause or installing a cooler.

Not meaning to come across snappy because I want all suggestions. But somehow it still reads that way regardless of how I revise it. Not my intent.

Do you know anyone with a pipe-insert AFR gauge?

You could at least rule out running too lean.
Head temp sensor or EGT couldnt hurt either.

On a day like today seeing 240F is indicative of an underlying condition.

I have a severe dislike for instruments that do not have values and only red or green ranges.

Oil temp is directly related to, and severely impacted by RPM, because RPM= friction and the oil both lubes and cools the internal components.

I didn't see what oil you are using? Whats the oil pressure doing when these temps are so high? Does the OP light come on at idle with the excess temps?

Does the engine have dual valve springs?

I share that dislike Jake.

I am using Joe Gibbs 15W-50.

Single springs.

No oil pressure gauge but the light never comes on at idle.

Backdated the HEs.

Verified the gauge and sender as 74 and later 200 C.

If it was that the gauge was on the "P" and the temp was only 180F I would not have any co concerns. But when measurement with external thermometers say "P" = 240 F on a cool day then I have concerns.

Measuring with an infrared that reads boiling water at 212.9 F.

No on the AFR. May take it in to have it checked.

I use this to verify readings: http://www.mainelycustombydesign.com/1dipstick1.html

I have seen those. Certainly likely to be more accurate than external but not sure if there would be a huge difference.

When I had a four, I hit the sump with an infrared gun when the needle was on the red ... it was 220 degrees.

OK. Following Jakes suggestion I went back and reviewed everything. All of my cooling items are working and so the most likely thing I can think of is timing. Went back and reviewed how I set the timing. Looks like I may have used the 27 mark as TDC for the timing. So when I set the advance on the light at 27 it may actually be 54.

Will have to reset the timing and report back.

The reason why you are not having oil pressure issues is because of that oil, it has a very high viscosity index and will maintain pressure at well over 250F.

That said, it does cool very well, unlike Brad Penn. I developed this oil with Lake Speed at Joe Gibbs Driven, and its all we use in our engines.

Is this a fresh engine? How many miles? I'd get a gauge with actual values, ensure the sender is appropriate for it and try this al over again. What air/ fuel ratio have you seen? Being lean and rich can both impact engine temperatures.

That is interesting. Back in the day of SCCA Racing I had installed a switch on the steering wheel so the driver could go from the normally crank triggered advance setting of 36 degrees to 50 degrees coming out of a corner. I had read that the Drag Racers used this trick for more power on launch.

The driver reported back after two practice sessions that all it did was "heat up the engine".

No, we didn't have a Dyno to test the theory.

That is pretty interesting on the oil development! I did quite a bit of research before picking that oil. Looks like it was a good choice.

Everything from top of case out is new. McMark assembled and did the check out on the engine. Still running the FI cam.

I am going to verify timing and see where I am.

Well have to give it up for Jake. I did have the timing way advanced. Set it to 27. Drove it like it was stolen. Could not get it above "M".

Looks like I owe Mr. Raby a beer or two? Thanks Jake

I have some carb adjustment to do as the idle is very low now and I am getting some popping through the carbs.

I had a pro tune my carbed car many years ago in LA.
When he brought it back after a test run, I got pissed because the temp gauge was in the red.

He said "well it wasnt knocking".
After that I replaced the temp sender and found that it was well below the red.

That is when I learned that the true test of the engine being overheated is "knocking".

What heat range plugs are you running, Mike?

I agree on the AFR test.

In case anyone is interested (I've done a bunch of engine modeling and read far too many books/papers so I'll keep this short)...

Massive advance like that will actually loose power since the burning/expanding mixture will push against the piston as it moves upwards.

In general, the basic rule of thumb is that you are achieving peak torque (MBT) if 50% of your fuel is combusted by about 9-12 degrees ATDC. Since combustion rate is relatively constant (it takes a fixed amount of time), you keep adding advance as engine speed increases to keep the 50% burn in the sweet spot.

That much advance (50 degrees) is most certainly too much for anything running maybe less than 13,000 rpm. We find peak torque on bike motors running at 10,000 rpm somewhere around 40 degrees. It's been a little while and I don't have the map on this computer so I don't remember exactly where we ended up.

OEM's might run 80 degrees advanced (I'm basing this on bikes since I have limited car engine experience) in decel (high vacuum, low throttle conditions to help decelerate the engine and clean up emissions.

I am just running standard plugs not sure of heat range. Any recommendations?

Just saw this. So glad I could help you square it away. Being over advanced will build engine and oil temperatures like crazy!

Jake is the Man!

Some say... Others not so much.