Finally got it to run, not well, but it runs. I had the wrong polarity from the VR sensor and a short to ground.

It needs a bunch of tuning and the timing needs to be trimmed (moves the whole spark map at one time).

Dave

Well, is the 2.0l plenum good enough for the engine size or are you going to dual TB's?

Congrats Dave!!! Well done! (write this shit done so I don't make the same mistakes you did)



Geoff

Congratulations Dave!

Awsome A gift for the holidays
Im takin the day off tommorow & I need to return Larrys socket, lovev to see hear that thing, I seemed to have missed all the previous fun.

Geoff, what your making noises about doin another rebuild?

I knew you could do it. make me proud Dave, I look forward to you having it at the WCC05 and showing it off. It should be running perfect by then.

congrats Dave

you are going to have to change your e-mail address pretty soon...all of us rookies are going to be asking for advice/help on our MS/EDIS installs

Schweeet. Way to go Dave.

Go put on your plaid pants and celebrate!

Congrats

Awsome Dave, Now lets get it dialed in and get some miles racked up before april, AL

Congratulations Dave and son, light at the end of the tunnel (or sparkplug in this case ).

And a very informative website to boot!!

Hey Dave! Good goin' man!

How about a picture of you wearing the funny hat in celebration?





M

good work dave.

kevin

Way to go Dave!!!
This calls for a

No Jeroen this calls for some coffee. It's 5:52 AM. I like beer but that's too early for me.

It's still a little premature to cellebrate. It runs barely and won't idle at all.

The Intake Manifold sensor is shot and is reading like 193 degrees, so I'll take the one off of the engine I removed cause I know it is good. There is a timing retard based I have as an option that kicks in on rising intake temperatures. This compensates for decreased charge density with higher intake temperatures. I like this feature alot because the plenum heat soaks and the charge is very hot on hot starts. Also the heads are hot so the likelihood of preignition is increased. Anyway because of the faulty IAT sensor, this feature has my timing retarded at startup. So, I suspect replacing the intake sensor will help some.

Also, I need to trim the ignition. This is just like rotating the distributor cause it moves the whole timing curve relative to the crankshaft.

Finally, I need to check the fuel pressure. It seems to fall off after a few seconds. I think I may have the fuel lines reversed. I've done that before and it'll run but not well.

I'm encouraged cause I'm getting closer but this time it's a lot more complicated and I've made some dumb-ass mistakes like not including a switched 12V cable in the harness and crossing a couple of wires at a plug. I hope to be on the road by the end of the weekend.

Dave

Great!

He won't know if the Plenum is adequate enough till he can attempt to tune it and we can look at the VE curve it wants. My engine is operating at 110% VE with a stock plenum and oversized TB but its only a 2056 with much less swept volume.

Nice going! Just a little fine tuning and you are on your way.

So Jake, you are using better cams to increase the VE curve?
I did some reading .....


VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY
Imagine that you have a 100 cubic inch single cylinder engine. On the intake stroke, the piston moves to the bottom of the cylinder and creates a volume that is 100 cubic inches. The fuel/air mixture that fills this volume is what will be used to create the power.

Now imagine that this engine has some type of restricted intake, such as a small carburetor or restrictor plate like they use in NASCAR. With this configuration, the intake manifold has a fairly good vacuum. In this case, even though the piston pulls a volume of 100 cubic inches into the cylinder, it is not atmospheric air. Here, you have the 100 cubic inches of the vacuum from the manifold. You can think of this as the opposite of super charging because the cylinder ended up with less fuel and air molecules rather than having more fuel/air packed into the same volume.

Volumetric efficiency (VE) is used to describe the amount of fuel/air in the cylinder in relation to regular atmospheric air. If the cylinder is filled with fuel/air at atmospheric pressure, then the engine is said to have 100% volumetric efficiency. On the other hand, super chargers and turbo chargers increase the pressure entering the cylinder, giving the engine a volumetric efficiency greater than 100%. However, if the cylinder is pulling in a vacuum, then the engine has less than 100% volumetric efficiency. Normally aspirated engines typically run anywhere between 80% and 100% VE. So now, when you read that a certain manifold and cam combination tested out to have a 95% VE, you will know that the higher the number, the more power the engine can produce.

Basically, volumetric efficiency is effected by your carb, intake manifold, headers, and cam specs. All of these items effect how much fuel/air will flow into the cylinder. But remember, the more fuel/air that gets into the cylinder, the more power the engine will produce.

Good excerpt Geoff. So Im still not relating that to the IR vs Plenum comparison, is this indicating that the suction at the IR/throttle body will always provide less VE than a reserve of air past the TB in a plenum?

Still having some problems. # 3 hole is not lighting off. I've been working on it myself so I haven't been able to tell if it is a spark or fuel problem. I can't get it to idle so I can't get around the car to check. I suspect fuel cause the plug is dry but, I can't see any sign that it has fired either.

It's probably a problem with the wiring to the injector.

I'll try sorting it out later I'm off to the office Christmas party. I'll have a couple of beers and it'll seem better.

Dave

keep on it Dave, you are SO CLOSE!!

I only got a chance to work on it a little last night. No progress. I'm waiting for the rest of the family to wake up so I can get someone to crank the engine over while I check spark then fuel in each hole.

I tried to chase down what I thought was a weird thing last night. I have continuity between the switch 12v and ground with a resistance of ~ 14 ohms. I kept looking for a short but, every segment of the harness checked out OK. My source of switched 12v is the black wire to the coil which comes off the relay board at pin 7 of the 12 pin connector. It turns out that is grounded thru the coil in the main power relay via pin 10 of the 14 pin connector. So much for that idea.

Dave

Get one or make a starter bypass switch, Dude. Poor Jerry is your starter slave these days, let the kid sleep now that its Xmas vacation.

Geoff

Well I'm still SOL. This thing is kickin my ass. Guess I'm glad I don't make a living at it. I did have it running on all 4 at times. I have good fuel to all cylinders. They all spray really well. I have spark to all cylinders but an occasional dropped spark at cranking RPMs and the spark to 1 and 3 looks weaker. These cylinders drop out so that appears to be the problem. Some damn electrical problem or no magic smoke (not sure which). The thing won't idle and it's real rich.

I've tried 2 different coils and 3 different EDIS modules so it's not the hardware. I suspect something in the harness or if I'm lucky a firmware problem.

This thing is on my mind when I wake up inthe middle of the night so I'll download some new code and burn it to a new chip.

If worse comes to worse I'll give up on EDIS and use a Mallory locked down to trigger spark and MS to do the timing. I can use an MSD 6A as a coil driver, a conventional coil and the Mallory to distribute the spark.

One way or another I'll get it going.

Dave

since FI systems work on doing the math from PV=nRT - they use volumetric efficiency to express the efficiency curve of the engine. A VE number over 100 is possible (and it's not a bad thing) when the injection system has a slightly imperfect view of how long to squirt for to get 100% (which is a baseline setting on the MS). It doesn't mean the engine is actually getting 100% VE.

Is it actually possible for a naturally aspirated engine to get a real VE highter than 100? I would think it would be possible to get it to peak a little over by having very good flow characteristics, such as velocity stacks that are well tuned...??? I wouldn't have thought you could get up to 10% over though...?

Keep up the good work Dave - sounds like you are close to winning!!

Fiid.

Did your set up originally have a ballast resistor for the coil input power???? It sounds to me your coil is dropping out ( frying itself) because of too much power input--even my MSD blaster 2 coil literature says to use a resistor if the car originally had on - or - if ti has overheating problems...

Just a thought----

Well still no improvement. I have fixed a couple of things I didn't like. I now get my switched 12 V from the main relay on the Megasquirt board so there is no ground issue anymore. I also fixed a bad connection on the O2 sensor. Neither of these helped.

I thought the coil to 1 and 3 wasn't firing so I checked the harness, it was OK. But, then I did something pretty dumb. I tried to measure the voltage from the coil secondary to ground. Burned up the DVM. It was a cheapo so now I think I'll get a better one.

I'm gonna pull the injectors out tonight and check the timing. I checked them for flow before and they have a nice pattern but in the back of my head I think I remember both injectors on the same side firing together. So 1 and 3 may be firing on the exhaust stroke. There's plenty of fuel in the exhaust on those cylinders, so maybe that's it.

I'm running out of ideas. I may have to get JP up here for a tranfusion of magic smoke.

Dave

You'll get it dave. Im sure glad Im not inside your head or Id completly freeeek. If you need a hand give me a call.

Tim