I want to buy a Camaro!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj1h75vA1Jw

Gotta love that LS7 HP and getting air @ 135 mph. The big Brembos and factory tuned suspension aren't bad either.

I wonder what the lap time would have been if the track wasn't wet?

Topped out at 159 MPH, I've seen Videos of Hans Stuck at over 180 in a BMW V8.

Still impressive

161

Pretty fast driving in the rain. Looks like a fun car.

Was that a showroom car or was it uuum, "tweeked"?

that was one loose ride!

definitely traction challenged.

Very high gearing.

Driver?

I wonder if it was Jim Mero again. He was the engineer working on the Corvette that decided to take it to the track back in 2011 and set the record (at the time). Didn't ask Chevy's permission, just went and did it.

The Z28 is a redesigned version for SCCA Trans-Am 2 class. It has better aero, less weight, revised suspension settings, shocks, springs and antiroll bars. The nice thing is it has a proven itself to be fastest Camaro in current production on the track. On the street, it might not be the best choice. But who gives a crap about a few 10ths on the street. GM Milford proving grounds it laps 3 seconds faster than its next of kin.

Now It set the fastest time at Nürburgring for any American Production muscle car. So its not a slouch by any means, being damp, means more time is to be had.

Way to go Chevy, bringing back product people might actually want to buy. Now please give us a mid-size RWD or AWD (not based on FWD platform) coupe or sedan. Great handling, a shifter, and the third pedal, know as a clutch. Decent fuel mileage in the low 40s, you guys can do it, so just do it already.

No. Instead they will spend 100s of millions in advertising telling you what you should want, and it wont have a stick and it won't get good mileage. Detroit, especially GM, has never seemed to grasp the concept of filling needs. They seem to think it is our job to want the product. With all that said, I would buy an American car any day. But the 94 Escort I bought new still gets me around in winter, so I don't have to...yet.

The BMW not in a street production car



manufactures use the ring as a development track and one the they can benchmark against other makes. if it was "tweeked" they couldn't use the lap times as a marketing tool so no not "tweeked" and also on the tires it will leave the showroom with.



a...it was raining and on street tires



no it was Adam Dean




really. really. GM builds a track demon version of the Camaro and you state "GM, has never seemed to grasp the concept of filling needs." That's got to be one of the most crazy statements I've heard in a long time. GM provides the Camaro in a base V6, SS, 1LE, the supercharged ZL1, and now the track Z28. the Camaro is not for everyone but for people who do like it, they have a lot of choices...err needs filled.

BTW: my LS7 Vette gets 28 MPG on the highway.

Nice reply. I have never been a GM fan; however, there is very little that can be said against the current crop of cars for the prices they sell for. Porsche is worried about the new C7...and they should be. Awesome performance for a fraction of the money. The new interior is finally at the quality level it should have been all along and the looks are comparable to any modern supercar.

GM and journalists are touting that Camaro as "faster than a Porsche 911" around the ring without mentioning that's a top of the line Camaro's time against a base 911's. That's true, but phrasing it just as "Camaro is faster than Porsche" without qualification is really dishonest. Unless of course GM intends to back up that claim with a FIA GT3 race effort. If the Camaro's are really faster that should be viable, even easy... right? Slam dunk GM? Ah, then the story's a little different, isn't it?

As a Mustang lover, I just crapped my pants

That base 911 is still probably close to twice the cost of that fully loaded Camaro.

I am NOT and have never BEEN a Camaro fan. However, sounds damn impressive to me....


The Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 is billed as the fastest street-legal Camaro ever built at the factory. Offered exclusively as a coupe, it is named after an iconic race-bound version of the first-gen Camaro that packed 290 horsepower, an impressive amount in the late 1960s.

Times sure have changed: The 21st century Z/28 packs 500 horsepower and 470 lb-ft. of torque thanks to a 7.0-liter LS7 V8 engine lifted straight from the Corvette parts bin. It is not the most powerful unit in the Chevrolet catalog, but it is ideal for track use because it is one of the lightest high-output mills.

Developed jointly with Corvette Racing, the all-aluminum V8 features a dry-sump oiling system, titanium valves and a high-lift cam. A cold air induction system, a K&N air filter and Z/28-specific intake and exhaust manifolds are part of the package.

The V8 transfers power to the rear wheels via a six-speed close-ratio manual transmission and a limited-slip differential. Upgraded carbon-ceramic brakes manufactured by Brembo and a track-tuned suspension help keep the 500 ponies in check on the track.

Ready to race
Outside, the track-bound Camaro features a full body kit that includes a front splitter that works with an underbody panel to reduce drag, fender flares, side skirts, a large trunk-mounted spoiler and a functional air diffuser integrated into the rear bumper.

19-inch forged aluminum wheels wrapped in Pirelli PZero tires finish off the look while reducing unsprung weight.

The Z/28's passenger compartment keeps the regular Camaro's 2+2 configuration but the rear bench is nine pounds lighter thanks in part to the use of a high-density foam. Recaro bucket seats with manual adjustments come standard, and the driver is treated to a flat-bottomed multi-function steering wheel.

The instrument cluster consists of four analog gauges separated in two pods and a TFT screen in between them. The car is designed to be as light as possible so there is no infotainment system to be found, but a simple AM/FM/CD audio unit connected to a single speaker is mounted on the center console. Bluetooth connectivity enables the driver to make hands-free calls.

The Z/28 is almost 300 pounds lighter than a Camaro ZL1 thanks to weight-saving modifications such as a thinner rear window and a smaller LN3 battery. The tire-inflator kit has been removed (except for cars sold in states where it is legally mandatory), HID headlights and fog lights are not available, and air-conditioning is only offered as an option.

Occupant safety
Like all Camaros, the Z/28 comes standard with six airbags, electronic traction control and stability control.

Driving aids such as blind-spot detection and active cruise control are not available, but the Z/28 packs a Performance Traction Management (PTM) function with five settings that gradually tone down the traction and stability control. PTM is designed primarily for track use.

Key competitors
The Z/28's main competitor is the Ford Mustang Boss 302, a 444-horsepower coupe based on the Mustang GT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v3CzvQ9e_w

I never said that the Camaro isn't a dollar for dollar deal, what I said is that it's distasteful to take the result of one competition, where your top-of-the line product bested a competitor's bottom of the line product, and use that to infer your own product's "superiority."

In my view that's deceitful, but I'm more than willing to give GM the benefit of the doubt. If they really believe their own advertising then it would seem a very small step for them to enter, and win, other competitive events that count on the regular participation of Porsche vehicles. I myself can't wait to see the first Z28 show up at my local autocross track, and will certainly and gladly to to Sears Point or Laguna Seca to witness GM's performance head-to-head against the Porsche contingent.

For perspective I saw my very first TransAm race at Vernalis in 1967 with Mark Donahue and Peter Revson, pony cars head-to-head with 911's and even a Lotus-Cortina. Things have changed, and I'm pretty sure I know what to expect.

The weird thing is, if you ever saw the the front suspension of a Camaro, you would wonder how it even turns! No A-Arms, Two Tie-Rods, the Strut just kinda hangin! And no Aftermarket Fix!

So the 911 Carrera S is the base 911?? This is copy from the distasteful journalist:
Despite the rain, this Z28 managed to shave a few seconds off the still-impressive 7:41.27 run a Camaro ZL1 laid down in 2011. Chevrolet is quick to point out that the Z28's time is a bit better than the 991 Porsche 911 Carrera S and a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640, and we can add the Lexus LFA and Ford GT to the list of cars the Camaro bests.




The suspension of a ZL1 and Z28 is much different than the suspension of a base V6. see note below from Autoweek. Also, remember GM developed magnetic ride control is the suspension control of choice for Ferrari.

Suspension revisions include 85 percent stiffer front springs, 65 percent stiffer rear springs, stiffer bushings, and Dynamic Suspensions Spool Valve (DSSV) dampers from Multimatic. First developed in Champ Car back in 2002, the DSSV dampers utilizes spool valves to regulate oil flow through various shaped ports compared to stacks of flexible disks with a series orifices in shim dampers. Multimatic says its spool valve offers higher levels of predictability, accuracy, and repeatability. In the Z/28’s damper, there are two spool valves letting engineers independently tune compression and rebound characteristics. The result, according to Chevy, is a 1.29-inch lower center of gravity than the SS and up to 1.08 g of cornering acceleration.

Of particular interest, a number of Formula One teams use DSSV dampers, including Red Bull Racing, they are installed on Acura’s LMP1 and LMP2 cars, and are the spec dampers for DTM, Formula 3 and the Ferrari 458 Challenge series

The Geometry is the Same - there are no A-Arms. You can add Magnetic Shocks & Struts, Springs, Bushings, & Dampers, but the Suspension is an awful design & the Cars push like a pig. There is no room for a front sub-frame to do it properly. I Instruct for the Corvette & Chevy Experience and have a Ton of Time in Camaro SS's. I also was under, in, & around a Camaro today as I might go to work for a Suspension Company that specializes in F-Body Camaros (1st through 5th Generations)

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

I'm not questioning your expertise...I also instruct for some of the Corvette Museum HPDE's...I do know that the all that stuff, that is 65% stiffer than a base V6, makes the car handle better.

So if the car "pushes like a pig" (which granted the SS does, but not the LE1 or Z28) how does it manage to better a lot of decent machines on a wet track? 7:37 at the ring does sound like a poor handling car to me?

You saw real TA racing!!! Donahue!!! awesome.

The Camaro (and Cadillac CTS) have been racing for a while and both won championships this year. Below is copy from Autoweek and a link to the full story.

O'Connell secured his second consecutive GT Championship, driving the No. 3 Cadillac Racing Cadillac CTS-V.R. Meanwhile, Aschenbach notched his third Pirelli World Challenge title, in a third different class. The driver of the No. 10 Blackdog Speed Shop Chevrolet Camaro took his first GTS championship...see link for complete story.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131007/m...ports/131009847

A Great Driver solves a lot of problems. I've gotten very good in a SS, but for the Average Joe they can be a handful

Yeah, except that's not the article I read. Different journalist. I'll find it and let you explain that one.

I saw every TA Race at Watkins Glen from 66 to 72 & a lot of the later stuff

The New Camaro & CTS-V RaceCars are made by Pratt-Miller and are nothing like a Production Car except looks

My source was AutoWeek...I can't speak for any other publication...Journalist are supposed to have some level of integrity...unless the publication was club specific or brand specific. If you are a PCA member check out the September issue (ltrs to ed) where they were called out for being a bit distasteful to another car make.

Agreed...I thought the statement was about how the new Z28 would compare against race cars like in the Trans Am series at race tracks like Sears Point or Laguna Seca. Race cars in the Trans Am series were also nothing like production cars except looks (except they had a lot more support from the manufacturers back then)

Actually cars in the Original TA Series in the 60's & early 70's were Production Cars that were crazy prepped

You can tell a real 1969 Z-28 by it's Intake

Dan Gurney secretly Acid-Dipped the bodys of his Cudas to lose weight, while Sam Posey didn't with his Challengers and could never figure out why his cars were so much slower than Dan's!

TC,

I love it! Thanks.

1.5g's in the rain. Umm ya! That'll scoot.

Where did you see 1.5g's? Is that a typo?

Saw the Panorama jab at the C7. Then the editors tried to pass it off as humor. Either way, it was lame and why I'm still very skeptical of a lot of Porsche owners. Too many people just want the name and recognition of owning one and can't handle the fact that there *could* be other cars out there that are faster and cheaper. Buy the car for your own reasons and don't feel the need to explain it to others.

Either way the C7 and 911 are both way out of my price range for years to come, so I'll shut my mouth and stay in the right lane with my teener

A real 1969 Z-28 is verified by a combination of many things...the X-33 or X-77 on the cowl tag and matching engine numbers that begin with DZ.

If the intake you are referring to is the Winters cross ram, that was an option. If you checked the box when ordering it showed up in the trunk.

If you are referring to another intake that I'm not aware of please let me know what it is. I Have had 3 69' Camaros and think I know a lot about them but would like to know more if there was a standard intake that identified the Z-28. Most of the big blocks came with aluminum Winters intakes but the special cross ram was only available as a special order for Z-28's, and as I stated came in the trunk, so there was another intake on the car when delivered. My brother has a matching numbers 69' Z-28.



I thought the jab was not something that should be in Pano...Porsche is such a high quality company, there is no reason to take a jab at another manufacturer...although I get it, having both a Porsche and a Vette. The target market for each is the other car. GM practically copied the configuration of the 928 for the C5 which was designed (body) by one of the pioneers of the Corvette, Larry Shinoda (name could be misspelled).

Anyway, I took a little issue when I read the article and fired off an email to the editor...they actually published it.

BTW: did anyone see that Porsche busted in to the 6's with the 918. Turned a 6:57 at the ring.

Now that is a car I want...except that only billionaires will own one @ $845,000.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I will start another one...

Before you start a new thread ....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=219466

No, I was talking about the Cross Ram. IMHO, a Real Z-28 is a Small Block which is what was raced in the Trans-Am Series. But due to being in the Muscle Car era, Camaros had 396s & 427s, which are cool, but due to weight can't handle with the Small Blocks

I get Pano, but I really don't read it anymore, so I don't know the reference to the C7. But in blind defense, Chevrolet has taken aim at Porsche with the advertising for the C7. BTW, the C7 is a GREAT Driving car and looks much better in person than in pictures.

Shinoda is spelled correctly. The 928 was almost an exact copy of the AMX Concept Car, so GM copied Porsche who copied American Motors

Really...I will have to do some research on the AMX as I love the 928 (I had 3).

GM has taken aim at the 911 since the C4...The C6 Z06 was allowed to be 3" longer but not the base C6 b/c they wanted it to be exactly the same dimensions as the 911.

BTW: yes the Z-28 was a small block...302. SCCA rules mandated a max of 305 (not sure how the Mopars had street cars with 340's?)

AMX Proto - it had a Rumble Seat!

Click to view attachment

OMG...a new trivia question: what does the AMX have in common with the 37' Chevy.

blablabla, the Porsche has a bigger pu$$y magnet!

You'd think, but not in the sticks, where I live, and where the most common vehicle is a pickup truck. Think Jerry Springer. With that as a backdrop those Camaros look pretty good.

[Oh boy am I gonna get in trouble for this.]

I think the 340 in the Mopars were destroked to around 5 liters, the cutoff for Trans Am. Maybe a 273 crank in the 340, kinda the same as the GM 302 with the 327 with a 283 crank?