What do you think, I was thinking about using a 10 to 20 circuit hot rod type as a base for the project. I have the old harness and could copy it as well.
I would like to use some industrial stuff I saw on the net for control or covering looms. I've seen some loom control using some trick stuff.
Any suggestions ???
Here is a link Click Here
Full Version: Deciding about wiring harness ?
The factory chassis harness has about 70 circuits. Look at the factory fusepanel, some fuse connects have multiple wires attached. Those hot rod harnesses have no ground circuitry, your grounds will all need to be custom. With only 10-20 circuits, everything it connects to - all the factory switches, gauges, fuses, relays, light bulbs, fuel injection(?)...you name it, will need aftermarket replacements or elimination. Look at the factory circuits for dash gauage illumination alone.
"loom covering" is available in many different types, each is devised for a specific purpose. Using open weave casing in the engine bay does not protect the wiring against heat or moisture. Using heat shrink in the cabin and trunks is overkill and prevents easy access into the harness. Use the right material for the job.
"loom covering" is available in many different types, each is devised for a specific purpose. Using open weave casing in the engine bay does not protect the wiring against heat or moisture. Using heat shrink in the cabin and trunks is overkill and prevents easy access into the harness. Use the right material for the job.
German cars use a separate left and right lighting circuit. To further complicate things, a front and rear lighting in separate too.
This make it a challenge to use the factory steering column with an aftermarket harness. You will need a hybrid system. It can be done if you like wiring...
The stock wiring system id 40 years old. All of our harnesses should be replaced at this age. I think we are all waiting for Jeff Bowlsby to manufacture replacement harnesses.
This make it a challenge to use the factory steering column with an aftermarket harness. You will need a hybrid system. It can be done if you like wiring...
The stock wiring system id 40 years old. All of our harnesses should be replaced at this age. I think we are all waiting for Jeff Bowlsby to manufacture replacement harnesses.
i will be using the stock harness as my base. then making modifications to suit my needs.
Jeff made some good points. Another thing to remember is the Germans love switched grounds where the aftermarket kits which are outstanding use positive switched circuits.
If you have a good understanding of electrical flow its not a major issue but something to consider. In any case it just depends on what you are willing to tackle.
Have to agree that these looms are showing age and are sometimes problematic.
Another idea - is not difficult to replace circuits on a factory harness that are cracked, melted or previously shorted and or damaged. Many times that is all that is needed. You can eliminate some things like the seatbelt circuit, courtesy lamps, door switches if you are building a racer.
If you have a good understanding of electrical flow its not a major issue but something to consider. In any case it just depends on what you are willing to tackle.
Have to agree that these looms are showing age and are sometimes problematic.
Another idea - is not difficult to replace circuits on a factory harness that are cracked, melted or previously shorted and or damaged. Many times that is all that is needed. You can eliminate some things like the seatbelt circuit, courtesy lamps, door switches if you are building a racer.
Wow good stuff !!!!
I see the point to using a factory one, hence make repairs to troublesome areas. I consider myself "relay happy". Some times I overdo it but do enjoy working with electrical systems. Being a old dealership (GM) Tune up tech its second nature for me to many different wiring jobs. I've wired 3 hotrods in the past using AFM kits, agree they are nothing like a real car harness. One of my problems is I tend to use wire 3 to 4 gauge larger when doing anything (hate resistance). Well lots of things to consider.
Thanks everyone would love to have the car moving on its own soooooon !!!
I see the point to using a factory one, hence make repairs to troublesome areas. I consider myself "relay happy". Some times I overdo it but do enjoy working with electrical systems. Being a old dealership (GM) Tune up tech its second nature for me to many different wiring jobs. I've wired 3 hotrods in the past using AFM kits, agree they are nothing like a real car harness. One of my problems is I tend to use wire 3 to 4 gauge larger when doing anything (hate resistance). Well lots of things to consider.
Thanks everyone would love to have the car moving on its own soooooon !!!
what i have found is that the vw/porsche switches have some pretty remarkable functions. like the emergency flasher switch, headlight switch, turn signal switch etc. it would be pretty hard to replicate there functions with a universal harness. unless you are gonna go with super simple on off on switches and the like. thats why i like using the stock harness as a base. replaceing failing or brittle wires and connectors of course. adding relays to remove loads from switches. using weather pack connectors for all exterior devices. and removing wires or re using wires for other things. like removing the seat belt warning system, i have re purposed some of those wires for other things. just my .02 cents....
I've been planning something along these lines for a while (it's much easier given that I'm already dealing with an SBC rather than the stock engine). Shop carefully for a kit that has enough expandability, or you're going to be back at square one again soon.
One thing you might consider; separate the loom into several sections and use connectors between them. This way you can swap things out piecemeal, rather than having to do everything all at once.
The 22-pin bulkhead mounted Weather Pack connectors aren't very expensive; one is plenty for the front firewall, and a 6-pin will give you enough circuits for the engine bay to tail junction.
Space under the dash where the stock fuse panel lives is a bit short; the JT panel is an OK stop-gap but it doesn't give you any room for expansion. You could probably make one of the Painless panels fit there with a bit of creative bracket bending.
It would not be super hard to make the stock hazard switch work with the Painless panel - it's a pretty conventional design (lots of other European vehicles and trucks use the same approach). You will have to give up the left/right side redundant light wiring - your call whether that's safer or not. Ditto integrating the existing low/high changeover relay.
Count on the job taking a lot longer than you think, and settle in advance on a wire colour scheme for all the wires that *aren't* supplied in whatever kit you pick. Write your selections down and draw up circuit diagrams as soon as you're finished, or you (and the next owner) will be sad later.
One thing you might consider; separate the loom into several sections and use connectors between them. This way you can swap things out piecemeal, rather than having to do everything all at once.
The 22-pin bulkhead mounted Weather Pack connectors aren't very expensive; one is plenty for the front firewall, and a 6-pin will give you enough circuits for the engine bay to tail junction.
Space under the dash where the stock fuse panel lives is a bit short; the JT panel is an OK stop-gap but it doesn't give you any room for expansion. You could probably make one of the Painless panels fit there with a bit of creative bracket bending.
It would not be super hard to make the stock hazard switch work with the Painless panel - it's a pretty conventional design (lots of other European vehicles and trucks use the same approach). You will have to give up the left/right side redundant light wiring - your call whether that's safer or not. Ditto integrating the existing low/high changeover relay.
Count on the job taking a lot longer than you think, and settle in advance on a wire colour scheme for all the wires that *aren't* supplied in whatever kit you pick. Write your selections down and draw up circuit diagrams as soon as you're finished, or you (and the next owner) will be sad later.
Lots of great advise, just 
pray I follow it I think using an open concept is the way I will attack the project. I need expandability and records of the harness for trouble shooting etc. One thing for sure, the fuse boxes must be easy to get to unlike the original location 
Trying to avoid something like this !!!!!!
pray I follow it I think using an open concept is the way I will attack the project. I need expandability and records of the harness for trouble shooting etc. One thing for sure, the fuse boxes must be easy to get to unlike the original location Trying to avoid something like this !!!!!!
QUOTE(drive-ability @ Dec 28 2013, 08:09 PM) 
...One thing for sure, the fuse boxes must be easy to get to unlike the original location
An interesting issue. Thinking about it, I think the stock fusepanel is in a pretty good location. Its right there by the driver where, if there is an electrical problem - fire, smoke, sparks - the fuses can be quickly removed with one finger. If it were in the trunks, fuses could get dislodged or the fusepanel is vulnerable to damage. Up by the fuel tank would not be safe due to possible sparks. The engine bay is in the weather. Inside the cabin it is protected from moisture.
Where else could it be located?
im thinking about replacing my fuses with circuit breakers. like in aircraft and off road race cars. so instead of replacing a fuse you just reach down and press the button to reset the breaker. the price of circuit breakers has come down so much they are affordable to us common folk.
If a (modern) fuse blows, something is very wrong. Pushing a button to make the very wrong thing happen again is completely missing the point.
Low-voltage circuit breakers only make sense if you have a circuit that is expected to be overloaded in a normal but exceptional circumstance (e.g. human error). With the possible exception of a power outlet, you should never have a circuit like this in a motor vehicle.
Low-voltage circuit breakers only make sense if you have a circuit that is expected to be overloaded in a normal but exceptional circumstance (e.g. human error). With the possible exception of a power outlet, you should never have a circuit like this in a motor vehicle.
QUOTE(mikesmith @ Dec 29 2013, 12:14 AM)
If a (modern) fuse blows, something is very wrong. Pushing a button to make the very wrong thing happen again is completely missing the point.
Low-voltage circuit breakers only make sense if you have a circuit that is expected to be overloaded in a normal but exceptional circumstance (e.g. human error). With the possible exception of a power outlet, you should never have a circuit like this in a motor vehicle.
I grafted a 1973 914 harness with a 2000 VW Passat harness. I have no fuses blowing. Everything works. Fuses are designed to blow because of a problem. Unless you are designing problems into your electrical system, circuit breakers should not be needed.
QUOTE(mikesmith @ Dec 29 2013, 12:14 AM)
If a (modern) fuse blows, something is very wrong. Pushing a button to make the very wrong thing happen again is completely missing the point.
Low-voltage circuit breakers only make sense if you have a circuit that is expected to be overloaded in a normal but exceptional circumstance (e.g. human error). With the possible exception of a power outlet, you should never have a circuit like this in a motor vehicle.
i know this is a little over the top but this is a great read with a lot of good ideas. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
QUOTE(mrbubblehead @ Dec 29 2013, 11:15 AM)
i know this is a little over the top but this is a great read with a lot of good ideas. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
Cool stuff. $25k is a little out of my wiring budget.
these are pretty nice fuse panels... http://www.bluesea.com/products/5026/ST%20...%20Bus/featured
They're nice enough panels, but not designed for automotive use; in particular you don't get enough switched power options, which means a complete redesign of your entire wiring tree.
I know it's heretical, and really there isn't quite enough room for it under the dash, but the E30 3-series BMW fuse box is an really nice starting point for a DIY re-wiring job. It uses readily available terminals, fuses and relays, it's well-documented, cheap to obtain, and has a lot of nice features (e.g. the dual unloader relays, dual fan relays, spare fuse slots, etc).
I know it's heretical, and really there isn't quite enough room for it under the dash, but the E30 3-series BMW fuse box is an really nice starting point for a DIY re-wiring job. It uses readily available terminals, fuses and relays, it's well-documented, cheap to obtain, and has a lot of nice features (e.g. the dual unloader relays, dual fan relays, spare fuse slots, etc).
really? this isnt designed for automotive use? http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46344/MINI-...CRO-RELAY-RTMR/ 
3.50$ for a 20 amp relay? and .10$ for fuses seams pretty cheap to me.
3.50$ for a 20 amp relay? and .10$ for fuses seams pretty cheap to me.
I really like the look of the Racepack Smartwire system but have trouble justifying the price tag.
All computer programable so no need for fuses relays flashers etc and miliamp current through switches.
All computer programable so no need for fuses relays flashers etc and miliamp current through switches.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.