sigh,

it was suggested to me from two different sources to use a stick (wooden dowel, pencil, chopsticks...etc) to put into the sparkplug hole to try to find TDC. Needless to say, when ever i work on my car, things gets... complex.

so i got this chopstick in the sparkplug hole... turn the wheel and the chopstick started to go down.. down..good, this is going well, so i thought. then i kept turning the wheel, chopstick start to move up. IM EXCITED!! this is gonna work!!! yes!! then, snap, my chopstick broke in half. half was hanging out the sparkplug hole, the other half fell in!

is my only alternative = pulling the heads? or can i somehow "fish" out the broken chopstick?

argggg help this is a brand new rebuilt, less than 500 miles

Shop vac?

Drop in a few termites?

I've got a little tool that has a claw that retracks on the end of it. YOu can get them at Sears.

Aaa, I look at the flywheel notch or the fan for the TDC mark. I have used the chopstick in the hole but you remove the stick when you rotate the engine because.....this happens. I reinsert the stick when its close and rotate the engine back and forth to determine exactly where the highest point of the piston stroke is ie: to check the fan marks.

Hmm, looks like you will be pulling the head to remove the piece of chopstick. Thats not good with it in there although it might burn off in 250 miles. It could get stuck in a valve when it opens. again not good.

Geoff

this is plastic chopsticks. looks like i will have to get the claw that was mentioned on the above post. i hope this works

Plastic- no problem. Stick a butain torch in there and burn it out.

QUOTE (URY914 @ Dec 31 2004, 04:35 PM)

Plastic- no problem. Stick a butain torch in there and burn it out.

you're kidding right?

Fire that muther up. Drive it at 5500 shifts around the block should do it. I think it would grind up burn and spit out plastic or wood without dammage within seckonds. I mean it's just a thin strip of plastic what could that do to a combustion chamber. Worst thing it could jam up under a valve for an instant? Bleyseng has good advice on the stick thing but I like mine better how about a drinking straw. It would bend and not break. I just look for timing mark and when the rotor points at #1 wire.

Not sure if you can see it through the spark plug hole.
What if you took another plastic stick and put a dab of crazy glue on it and touched it onto the one inside and tried to pull it out.
I'm sure that this is easier said than done but might worth a shot.

Remember the the Steve Martin bit, "Let's get small"?

Take a small pill and go in and get it...


Seriously, I think the burn it out or run it out would work.

Or you could put somthing sticky on a stick and pluck it out.
The super glue would would be very hard as it goes off pretty quick.
Try two sided tape.
I think the shop vac should get it. You might have to rotate the engine so a valve is open and the air can really flow.

KT

Use a magnet!! No. Wait. That won't work. Never mind. How the hell did you break it off in the first place. I hope this post is helpful.
cheers, Elliot

OK,

Hows about chewing gum on the end of a piece of wire....

Beter yet, poster tack stuff on the end of a wire.

Put it in the plug hole and fish around. Bend wire to reach odd areas.

Ken

I'm sorry but I don't think I would want to be burning plastic in the combustion chamber of a brand new rebuild. I think that the claw grabber thingy would work, might take some time though. I would try something sticky on the end of another stick (a little bigger that a chpstick so you don't break another one) until you can get ahold of a grabber.

Whatever you do let us know how it turns out.

I've got a bunch of surgical graspers and those suckers have rigid 5mm shafts. Your reach through the plug hole is mighty limited with a straight shaft. Matter of fact it's range is conical.

I do endoscopic surgical instruments for a living. They call it "keyhole" surgery.

Try the sticky on a wire- bend to increase range of motion.

Duct tape flag might work too.

Ken

How about compresed air to blast it out?
Wear safety goggles

KT

Fill it with something more dense than the chopstick and maybe it'll float to where you can grab it with tweezers/little grabber or something?

QUOTE

or can i somehow "fish" out the broken chopstick?

I dunno can you?

tell us?

Once the motor is running the airflow only goes one way out the exaust. That plastic wont stand an chance it wont stay around long enough to melt and stick to the cyl or valve. When dropped a valve from cracked springs it made a terrible noise I shut it down pulled over not knowing what happened asked my son to crank it I barley reved it the piston bent the stem and stuck it in the guide but the noise quit and I got home on 3cyl. Any way the reason I posted this is no cyl dammage no head dammage and that was a steel valve bouncing around in there. I did normal valve grind job all new springs and only one valve and guide. I did get LUCKY. So could you.
Anyway I can already tell you dont like my fire that muther method so you could try dropping the exaust if the valve is not open tighten the adj. then pipe in a powerful blower (eg gas driveway blower) to the port with the plug out and turn the crank oppisite the dir you were going incase the plastic is lodged/jammed by the piston that broke it. With all that air blowing in from the bottom of the cyl may churn that plastic around in there untill it sticks out the plug hole....... Another mad method experiment with another chopstick and cup zylene solvent (non acid) see how long it takes to liquefy the stick. If it works just fill that cyl time it the same as the test stick+ 30min leave out the plug put a rag on your plug hole and turn over by hand or go back to fire that muther up!

QUOTE (kwales @ Jan 1 2005, 12:14 AM)

OK, Hows about chewing gum on the end of a piece of wire.... Beter yet, poster tack stuff on the end of a wire. Put it in the plug hole and fish around. Bend wire to reach odd areas. Ken

Ditto

I would try the suggested OR go to your local hardware store and get a roll of flypaper, yes you heard me right. Take a little of that sticky stuff and wrap it around another chopstick. slide it in, swirl it around and trust me it will fish it out. That stuff is the stickiest crap on the planet. Pulling the head would be too much work and the burnout at 5k around the block could cause the stuff to get lodged in the valves also a No..No.

well..

1. tried fly paper at the end of another stick... cant feel the broken stick

2. tried shop vac'ing it out, no luck either (with a hack attatchment using 3/8 outer diameter hose)

looks like im gonna have to rip the head out grrrr

I still think the vacuum is your best bet. Can you hear the piece rattling around? It may just take a bunch of tries to get the piece to line up with the exit hole.

try the solvent test on another stick Zylene is strong and melt it out. Or drop the exaust and pipe yard blower into the bottom of it with the plug out.

Be patient...

DO NOT TEAR DOWN THE ENGINE OVER THIS!!!

What are the chances that the stick fragment was small and already fell out through the exhaust valve.

Try this: get a small piece of flexible tubing. Stick that in the hole. Use the Shop Vac to suck air through the little tube.

I like the fly paper idea myself. Just don't let it get stuck in there, too.

KT

Dude that sux. Don't start it. You'll bend the valves or punch a hole through a piston before the plastic melts. It still needs to pass through the valve seat in a millasecond with out getting pinched, melted or not. If you can't fish it out pull the head. It's gonna sux but it's better than trashing the whole thing.

Get a metal coat hanger and make a custom set of tweezers, long and thin, then bend the tips at 45 degrees or so in order to grab the broken stick. If all else fails, I can't see how just starting it up and letting it be expelled naturally will do any great harm. Certainly not enough to justify tearing down the motor. Good Luck.

Vacumm sounds best. Considering exactly what you are hoping to suck out of the port. The suction is only as good as the actual size of the hose. In other words, mask off the inlet to the port to fit that 3/8 hose you are using keeping outside air from entering. It should pop right on out.
Just my .02
Cooltimes

1. rotate the piston. to close both valves then your vac will be much more effective. 2. bring it up to tdc to get it as close as you can then try to grab it with the flex grabber.

Bernie

Its Plastic! Drop another one in a glass of Zylene. Time how long to disolve. Close the vlaves eg loosen the adjusters, Fill the cycl with the solvent. Then adj the exaust valve open to drain then flush with marvel oil and blow out. Man I drove mine home with a dropped then jammed valve, the noise quit when the bent valve stem got jammed into the guide. Head seat piston cylinder all fine with steel hitting the piston. Its only cheap plastic!! Just fire it up and blow it out. .....Try a drinking straw next time it would bend but not break.......Here is one suggestion it may not get the plastic chop stick out but it may help you see it. You could hit the piston with this light. The light is at SEARS. The strange clips you can get at your local yardsale thats where I found mine for a buck.

Both the light and the clip would reach deep through the plug hole to the piston Both would fit at the same time. I can let you borrow these or at least the clips as you can get the light at Sears.....OT.. these two tools together look deadly or at least painful!

I liked the idea of the torch down in the hole and melt it into a small glob. A propane torch wouldnt get hot enough to do any damage to the head or cylinder. Although, if it was me, I would pull the head and do it right.

I would definitely use the torch; if you did a chopstick on the workbench you would see there isn't even a glob left, it is just a smudge of black ash. That is what would be left in the cylinder.

And that "smudge of black ash" on the pavement was your 914!!

I'd pull the head before I tried to melt it with heat or solvent.....

Now you see the reason we use a plastic soda straw ........................................................... The Cap'n

Here is what I would do. I wouldn't start the engine, it might work but if it doesn't you could have a real mess on your hands.
Pull off the header.
Rotate the engine so that the exhaust valve is wide open.
Get a good shop vac with two hoses.
Put one hose from the discharge side of the vacuum blowing into the exhaust port.
Put the other suction side of the shop vac to the spark plug hole.
Have someone under the car swirl the hose around in different directions to create turbulance in the cylinder.
What goes in the spark plug hole should come out. It may take awhile but well worth the effort.

and most of all....................don't do it again!

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 3 2005, 12:27 PM)

I'd pull the head before I tried to melt it with heat or solvent.....

QUOTE (sanman @ Jan 3 2005, 04:57 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 3 2005, 12:27 PM) I'd pull the head before I tried to melt it with heat or solvent.....

I concur. Trying to melt a plastic chopstick to oblivion in your combustion chamber is suicide to that chamber. A butane torch can reach in excess of 1000 degrees. Do not start that engine. If it lodges in the vlave, the valve could be blocked open and have a violent meeting with the top of the piston causing a bent valve, loosened valve seat, loosened valve guide, or a hole in the top of the piston, or even all of the above. I'm not sure what advice to give on how to retrieve the chopstick except to keep trying. Sounds like the real problem will be getting the end to line up with the hole.

Good luck.

QUOTE (tracks914 @ Jan 3 2005, 01:43 PM)

Here is what I would do. I wouldn't start the engine, it might work but if it doesn't you could have a real mess on your hands. Pull off the header. Rotate the engine so that the exhaust valve is wide open. Get a good shop vac with two hoses. Put one hose from the discharge side of the vacuum blowing into the exhaust port. Put the other suction side of the shop vac to the spark plug hole. Have someone under the car swirl the hose around in different directions to create turbulance in the cylinder. What goes in the spark plug hole should come out. It may take awhile but well worth the effort. and most of all....................don't do it again!

I think Doug has the best idea so far. It could be improved by squirting compressed air in the spark plug hole. Also, using a part of a nylon stocking in the end of the vacuum hose to catch the little vagrant before it disappears into the shop vac.

If that doesn't work, pull the head. Torching the piece will melt it and, when it cools, it will be harder than before. This is bad news if it gets trapped between the valve and the seat.

QUOTE (Carl @ Jan 3 2005, 06:24 PM)

QUOTE (tracks914 @ Jan 3 2005, 01:43 PM) Here is what I would do. I wouldn't start the engine, it might work but if it doesn't you could have a real mess on your hands. Pull off the header. Rotate the engine so that the exhaust valve is wide open. Get a good shop vac with two hoses. Put one hose from the discharge side of the vacuum blowing into the exhaust port. Put the other suction side of the shop vac to the spark plug hole. Have someone under the car swirl the hose around in different directions to create turbulance in the cylinder. What goes in the spark plug hole should come out. It may take awhile but well worth the effort. and most of all....................don't do it again! I think Doug has the best idea so far. It could be improved by squirting compressed air in the spark plug hole. Also, using a part of a nylon stocking in the end of the vacuum hose to catch the little vagrant before it disappears into the shop vac. If that doesn't work, pull the head. Torching the piece will melt it and, when it cools, it will be harder than before. This is bad news if it gets trapped between the valve and the seat.

if you go the exhaust route method, I'd adjust the rocker arm screw on that piston so that the valve opens up as far as possible...just remember to re-adjust the valve adjustment screw back to .006" so that you don't bend the valve if successful and you turn the motor over

Soooo...... Is it out yet


Mike D.

I think he needs to look in the yellow pages for "Guys that Build Ships In a Bottle"

Keep trying the sticky stuff.

Ken

QUOTE (DJsRepS @ Dec 31 2004, 06:40 PM)

Fire that muther up. Drive it at 5500 shifts around the block should do it. I think it would grind up burn and spit out plastic or wood without dammage within seckonds. I mean it's just a thin strip of plastic what could that do to a combustion chamber.

Yea...that's the ticket....

Don't know you DJsRepS, but you've got to be joking right? If not that's a contender for the bad advice of the year! You might break it in enough pieces to get it out the exhaust valve, and maybe not! You could bend a valve, break a piston, all kinds of BAD STUFF! Injection moulded plastic isn't very compressable. Are you trying to sell him an engine????

You made a mistake, don't make it worse. You either fish the thing out with a piece of tape on some stainless tie wire, or one of the other methods suggested here; or you drop the engine and take the head off.

QUOTE (kwales @ Jan 3 2005, 06:29 PM)

I think he needs to look in the yellow pages for "Guys that Build Ships In a Bottle"

LOL LOL


or better yet, guys that dismantle ships from a bottle.

QUOTE (9146986 @ Jan 3 2005, 07:35 PM)

QUOTE (DJsRepS @ Dec 31 2004, 06:40 PM) Fire that muther up. Drive it at 5500 shifts around the block should do it. I think it would grind up burn and spit out plastic or wood without dammage within seckonds. I mean it's just a thin strip of plastic what could that do to a combustion chamber. Yea...that's the ticket.... Don't know you DJsRepS, but you've got to be joking right? If not that's a contender for the bad advice of the year! You might break it in enough pieces to get it out the exhaust valve, and maybe not! You could bend a valve, break a piston, all kinds of BAD STUFF! Injection moulded plastic isn't very compressable. Are you trying to sell him an engine???? You made a mistake, don't make it worse. You either fish the thing out with a piece of tape on some stainless tie wire, or one of the other methods suggested here; or you drop the engine and take the head off.

I totally agree. If you start that engine, you're likely going to hurt it very badly. Either get the chop stick out or remove the head.

best / quickest solution is Tracks914. A cool tool would be sumtin like a colonoscopy probe, about 9mm in dia. w/ camera/ light and various attachments for grabbing !
Know any GI doctors ?

The doctors I know don't hang in the 914 crowd.
They're too rich for that, they drive new 911's.

Maybe a gynecologist could get it !!!

Think about this. Get another chopstick, see if it floats in water. IF it floats, fill the cylinder with water....I know, I know, relax it's TEMPORARY...float the chopstick to the top, snag it and pull it out. Syphon the water out. Change the oil, run it, change the oil again. No harm done....

If you don't like the water, test other fluids that you would be more comfortable with and see if the chopstick floats....

Hey, if it doesn't work, you're planning to pull the head anyway.....

Turn the car upside down and shake it!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

QUOTE (mharrison @ Jan 3 2005, 07:56 PM)

Maybe a gynecologist could get it !!! Think about this. Get another chopstick, see if it floats in water. IF it floats, fill the cylinder with water....I know, I know, relax it's TEMPORARY...float the chopstick to the top, snag it and pull it out. Syphon the water out. Change the oil, run it, change the oil again. No harm done.... If you don't like the water, test other fluids that you would be more comfortable with and see if the chopstick floats.... Hey, if it doesn't work, you're planning to pull the head anyway.....

Clever idea, Mike.

I'm not familiar with TIV engines so can the valve spring on the uppermost valve in the cylinder be removed so that the valve can be (carefully) lowered further into the cylinder? With a larger opening, many of the other ideas mentioned here would be possible. Retrieval with a claw, float it out, vacuum it out, flypaper on a stick, etc.

the engine is in the car, cylinder sideways.... The chopstick has to be down at the bottom. Could you bend a springy wire like a Y with the bottom bent 90 degrees, so you could reach the low side of the cylinder with the upper prongs of the Y hopefully on each side of the stick, then rotate the handle end so that the stick is brought up between the two prongs.... Could be that once it is flipped uo, pulling it back out will cause the stick to get pinched between the wires too.....
good luck, whatever you do.

I can't believe you haven't gotten it out yet! Are you *sure* it's actually in there? I remember one time I couldn't find my wallet and I wondered around the house for an hour looking… only to find out it was in my pocket the whole time.