I'm wondering if something is out of whack on my car.

While fitting my inner long, inner suspension console, carrier mount and engine shelf, I came upon a problem. I have the car level side to side (used a level), and when I bolt the carrier to the driver side mount and level it , the passenger side mount seems like it is almost half an inch from where the bottom of the long wants to be.

there was this that happened, of course....




I got a bunch of of aluminum leveling jack stands and distributed them underneath and took out my passenger side door brace to check the door and it seems good, lining up at the bottom along the kick panel.

At one point prior, after I got the inner wheel well welded back in, there was this



which I fixed with plug welds like this


And then the outer suspension console welded on


Even with the inner part of the long taken out entirely, it seems there is something going on. The flange where the mount welds to the bottom of the long is only coming up to the bottom of the lower flange on the long - it should be a half inch up?

so I'm just having a really hard time figuring out where it is off, unless the passenger side of the engine carrier bar is supposed to be either .400" higher than the driver's side? At one point was wondering if it's supposed to not be parallel with the firewall as putting it forward more, the long comes down enough. It's hard to believe the long shrunk that much, almost half an inch? It seems if the doors fit that I got the inner wheel well in right? - i can't put any more metal in there to bring the long down or the door wouldn't fit then, the gap would get too big. A half inch seems gone somewhere ?

So here are pics I took specifically of the situation.

Engine bar mocked up, car is level
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closeup of the difference
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With the long inner in there it sits right against it, just needs to go up by a mile or so?
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And the doors - I thought it would show there, but no
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and below
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Hard to tell exactly by the images but you probably have some shrink where the inner long kicks up diagonally. Take a peek at the rear trunk gaps to qtrs. and see if they are still square on both sides.

Are you sure that mounting bar is straight and that the engine mounts are the same exact height?

I would think it would be more accurate to measure directly from frame metal to frame metal

Based on what I see in the first photo it would be really easy to conclude that rail spread. There isn't anything holding the width when you have the bulkhead and floor pan removed as well as the inside rail. I rebuild from the inside out. It looks like you rebuilt from the outside in.

How to fix it?

Question: do you have the inner rail welded up yet?

The trunk gaps I think are ok. It's a bit tricky the passenger fender isn't really attached, but I lined up the welds and it looks ok. -The firewall has always been mostly in place at the top, if not the bottom to hold it up top. The bottom I could see spreading, but the width has been ok.

It's hard to adjust, but if it were even on both sides, it would have about .240" gaps.

Seems like it must be just right down there it shrunk up like testes in a pool, a full half inch right at the long. It's hard to measure that, with the left one all closed up...

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Inner frame to inner frame is alright, like the width I think is good.

I tried my other mounting bar, and it is the same result. I tried it backward, too. The mounts are new and look the same.



I have the inner long formed, though that is in need of some finessing.
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I've taken that out of the equation, though. I haven't welded it in. The width seems alright. Angling it that way makes it seem closer, but it is supposed to be parallel, which gets me the half inch off vertical.
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With the 1/2"plate put in there it sits how I expected it to.
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I have been looking at this for days wondering where the space went, still am... I really apreciate the responses, guys.

Your level looks to be sitting on the engine bolt holes which are close together.

Does the engine bar look parallel to the floor pan when viewed from the rear or the front?

I think you introduced some stress to the outer rail when you welded it. I think it's bowed out on the bottom. You need to get a measurement from the right pinch weld to the left.

Also check this. Measure from the left tunnel flange to the left pinch weld flange on the bottom of the long and from the right tunnel flange to the right pinch weld on the bottom of the long.

I can't remember but I think they are symmetrical.

I double checked it. There is a 4' piece of 1/2" plate on the floor that is leveled, and measuring up from that, the bar is even. It looks even when I eye it up.

if your measurements (rick mentioned) are correct, maybe you should loosen the small bolts that attach the engine bar mounts to the chassis, and slide the mounts over....you have at least a 1/2 inch of play on both sides from what I can see.

rich

It seems like they should be symmetrical. I think they'd have to be.

I just marked the center of the bottom-most 'bead roll' I think they call it. In the dims they make it sound like there should be a mark, but I measured the middle off the seatbelt bolt square nuts, the engine lid brackets and the ends of the engine shelf. Then measured the middle of the lower firewall to the lower flanges of the longs on either side.... and, it wasn't even. It was the opposite of what everyone, myself included, thought. The left was 27 1/8" and the right was 26 5/8" so the long has come in, kind of curled up seemingly. I think I may need to uncurl it to get the bit that I need vertically and bring it out away from the car's center - I knew my firewall pieces were tight, like scrunched, so bringing it out would help that, too.

Nice, it is starting to make sense. I have been fuzzy on exactly how tall the long should be when it goes diagonal during the jack plate, engine mount, and suspension console. I stupidly got rid of the section from my parts car. I may be meeting up with a guy who is selling just that part. It might even be solid, but probably fat chance of that.

I will see where it gets me trying to move the bottom of the long down and out, it may be hard to work both layers, but I will give it a go.... tomorrow evening after work.

Thanks again, gents. It's awesome to have you guys.

Side to side isn't too bad right now. Of course if I move the right side out a half inch .... I think the mounts have some play side to side but they're set forward and aft without much adjustment.

That distance from the center of the firewall to the lower long flanges I think may be the key.

I may have missed it if you mentioned it but is it possible the mount needs to move forward slightly, towards the firewall, on the passenger side?

I am pretty sure that the bar needs to be exactly parallel with the firewall in order for the engine to be straight. It would show up at the wheels ultimately if it wasn't centered, I would think.

I used the giant 24" calipers to get that, so it is parallel front to back with the car, as well as up and down from side to side... with the earth.

I was thinking that I could have built the start of the diagonal too far forward, but the bottom of the outer long (aka inner wheel well) has always been fairly intact. It has moved in by 1/2". Measuring half way up forward, I measured it at an 1/8" less than the front, so I am guessing a quarter inch the long needs to move out total at the back where it angles up, and another 1/4 the bottom needs to move down and out. I will see where that gets me vertically with the engine mount.

I may need to slit the inner wheel well just above the long and pull the whole thing down an 1/8" of an inch. Right now I could say that the passenger long from the front to the back could be a 1/16" higher in the back, which is to say it could be 1/8" down and off by the same acceptable amount the other way.

I'm trying to paint the front of my bus but I'm going to bust out the hammer this afternoon/evening.

The guy is on for picking up the long section tomorrow, so I can get better measurements then.

You are nearby a bunch of other 914 guys.

Maybe you could take a piece of square tubing, and two plates to a complete car and weld a jig up where the two plates bolt to the engine mounts with no rubber, and then weld the bar to those plates.

Then you will have a jig that has no play at all.

thats a good idea. start with a no slop jig. the use the mounts for fine tuneing

This is such a tempting idea, is why the thread's subtitle. If I could move it forward by 3/8 of an inch the problem would be solved

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moved the jack by only that much
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Well, I've messed with it quite a bit, and haven't really gotten anywhere. Bringing the long out the half inch didn't do much to bring it down like I hoped it would.

I'm thinking of going all Hontec on it. If I build a jig, I feel like I could measure what the driver side and make the passenger side symmetrical. As it is, just finding a reference is really difficult. At this point I'm starting to doubt everything I've done, like the outer suspension console. Measuring that, it seems right, but at the same time, it seems like it couldn't be quite right if the engine mount is so off.

This seems like the only way, short of finding another tub, to build the jig with, but I don't have room for that.