Hi all. I desperately want a 914 (yes, for a daily driver), and have the chanceto buy a nice one, but have a slight problem. My dad was killed because his car didn't have an airbag, and Mom is very displeased about this. I'll probably get it anyway, but I was wondering if it is possible to install an airbag system on an old car like the 914. I'm pretty positive it's not possible, but thought I'd ask the experts.
Thanks,
Cole
Full Version: Airbags into 914
No, it's not feasible. Anything's possible, but the expense would be enormous (as in you'd be able to buy several new airbag equipped cars for less money). Fit a roll cage and a proper 6-point harness and you'll be as safe as it's possible to be in a 914.
I'm not even going to go into what I think of airbags...
I'm not even going to go into what I think of airbags...
Yep, that's what I figured. Thanks a ton.
Cole
Cole
Cole, first welcome to the club. These cars do have 4 wheel disc but no power assist. The biggest thing is not to overdrive yours and the cars limits. Airbags do save lives but they are useless unless you wear a safety belt. The best safety measure is defensive driving. The 914 when set up offers good handling. The thing to remember is these cars need work to keep them in condition for daily driving. I don't know your age but if your still living at home you might want to listen to your mother.
james it right on, of course. frankly, i believe that a stock 914 is an inherently unsafe car -- you'll always need to be driving defensively. that said, the late model (75-76) cars have a few extra safety features: big bumpers and side-impact door beams. 73-74 (maybe 72 as well?) cars have the door beams as well, which should help a little. but these cars are so low that any SUV's bumper will be at about head-level in a 914.
that said, i've seen photos of 914s that held up remarkably well in some serious collisions. i believe one of the members here had a head-on in his 914. though the car was a complete loss, it did its job in protecting the driver.
that said, i've seen photos of 914s that held up remarkably well in some serious collisions. i believe one of the members here had a head-on in his 914. though the car was a complete loss, it did its job in protecting the driver.
Hey guys. I'm 20 years old, and while I don't live at home, I also don't like worrying Mom any time I don't have to. I'm a huge sports-car fanatic and currently drive a '95 240SX with an SR20DET (turbo 2.0 liter from Japan. It's running about 220WHP right now) and lots of suspension. I'm really terrified someone'll back into it again or I'll end up doing something dumb with it. It's not at all a low-cost car, and pretty much anything that breaks will cost an arm and a leg. My last (only) wreck broke a wheels and a couple suspension components. In any normal car, it was no big deal (I hit a drainage pipe as I slid off the road. Basically like hitting a curb. But only barely). In the Nissan, it cost $3000. I could have bought a halfway decent 914 for that.
Besides, it's just time for something else. You guys know what I mean. It's the same reason you stick one of Raby's high performance engines in your 914. You're ready for something else. Most of you guys probably have had (or have) more than one sports car. It's an addiction.
I got a chance to drive a 914 ('73 1.8l) a while back, and instantly fell in love with it's awesome handling and sheer simplicity. I also love that manual steering and the manual brakes. Just always had a thing for being directly connected.
I'll probably get one anyway. Thanks a lot for the help, guys. Expect to see me around.
Cole
Besides, it's just time for something else. You guys know what I mean. It's the same reason you stick one of Raby's high performance engines in your 914. You're ready for something else. Most of you guys probably have had (or have) more than one sports car. It's an addiction.
I got a chance to drive a 914 ('73 1.8l) a while back, and instantly fell in love with it's awesome handling and sheer simplicity. I also love that manual steering and the manual brakes. Just always had a thing for being directly connected.
I'll probably get one anyway. Thanks a lot for the help, guys. Expect to see me around.
Cole
forgot to welcome you to the board, cole! you've come to the right place. now about this:
while it's true that you can get a running 914 in Cali for 3k, you should be careful not to start thinking that your 914 will always be a value. on the contrary, a miata or similar offers a much better performance:$ ratio -- despite a slightly higher entrance price.
if you buy a $3k car with a nice engine and no rust (which is unlikely anywhere except California), expect to have an additional $3-5k in it about 2-3 years later (and that is if you do your own mechanical work). or buy a $5k car, and have an additional $1-2k in it a few years later. either way, you WILL spend more money than you think. when you buy them, they're a VW. when they break, they're a porsche.
that said, GET ONE and join the insanity!
| QUOTE |
| In the Nissan, it cost $3000. I could have bought a halfway decent 914 for that. |
while it's true that you can get a running 914 in Cali for 3k, you should be careful not to start thinking that your 914 will always be a value. on the contrary, a miata or similar offers a much better performance:$ ratio -- despite a slightly higher entrance price.
if you buy a $3k car with a nice engine and no rust (which is unlikely anywhere except California), expect to have an additional $3-5k in it about 2-3 years later (and that is if you do your own mechanical work). or buy a $5k car, and have an additional $1-2k in it a few years later. either way, you WILL spend more money than you think. when you buy them, they're a VW. when they break, they're a porsche.
that said, GET ONE and join the insanity!
QUOTE]install an airbag system on an old car [QUOTE]
Cole,
James is right, it would cost alot considering it would need DOT approval. This and impact safety requires lots of costly testing.
It's not guaranteed an airbag will save you and on the contrary for short people or children it has caused death. Even a new small car with airbags may not save you. Weight savings for fuel economy have made most new car structures colapsible.
I found there a rules to tampering with airbags when I removed my airbag steering wheel for a Momo in my Benz. In my case it didn't make sense because my old airbag probably wouldn't deploy being over 10 years old. As factory recommended, I should buy a new dealer airbag every 10 year that would approach half the value of the old car. Again economics.
Felix
Cole,
James is right, it would cost alot considering it would need DOT approval. This and impact safety requires lots of costly testing.
It's not guaranteed an airbag will save you and on the contrary for short people or children it has caused death. Even a new small car with airbags may not save you. Weight savings for fuel economy have made most new car structures colapsible.
I found there a rules to tampering with airbags when I removed my airbag steering wheel for a Momo in my Benz. In my case it didn't make sense because my old airbag probably wouldn't deploy being over 10 years old. As factory recommended, I should buy a new dealer airbag every 10 year that would approach half the value of the old car. Again economics.
Felix
If I wanted an airbag in the car, I could just get the mother-in-law... 
ba-dum Ching!
Come on, who didn't see that one coming!
There are lots of reasons to buy a 914. But safety isn't really one of them. They're tiny, so you're always watching out for people that don't see you. You buy a 914 'cause you want a really fun car to drive (or display on jackstands as the case may be).
ba-dum Ching!
Come on, who didn't see that one coming!
There are lots of reasons to buy a 914. But safety isn't really one of them. They're tiny, so you're always watching out for people that don't see you. You buy a 914 'cause you want a really fun car to drive (or display on jackstands as the case may be).
| QUOTE (ws91420 @ Jan 8 2005, 04:02 PM) |
| I don't know your age but if your still living at home you might want to listen to your mother. |
Cole, I'm sorry if I offended you but not knowing your situation I decided to cover my bases that said if you get into an accident with a 914 it can get expensive also. It would be a challenge (not impossible) to get full coverage insurance on any older car for a reasonable price. Read about the bodywork the guys on the board are doing and the labor involved in that. I personally haven't gotten into that. I have spent the past 5+ years getting mine drivable mechanically and I am still finding problems.
Facinating this should come up now. I'm working on the very same thing. Was going to call it the MattRBag, but name was taken. So here's the new AaronBag!
I had a 914 as my daily driver when I was 19 years old. Of all the old british & italian cars I owned as a youth the 914 never let me down and was so cool and fun to drive.
Now I am 31 and I have a Boxster as my daily and a pretty nice 914 just for fun. I am also an avid motocyclist... don't worry I am getting to the point.
After driving the Boxster for 3 years getting back into a 914 seemed a bit scary. The car is small, a bit noisy, and you feel everything going on under the tires... oh right that is what makes it so much fun. It is all how you look at it. After driving my 914 for about a thousand miles I am used to it again and do not "feel" any less safe than in my Boxster.
Having said that the car is 30 years old and as you know does not have modern brakes, airbags, etc. like the Boxster. I have to remember that when driving but once you get used to it you never think about it, the car simply feels right.
The weird part is that a lot of people do not see me in the Boxster and no one sees me in the 914... even the bright color isn't enough when you are sitting below most peoples bumpers let alone the line of sight from their mirrors. This is where the motorcycle experience comes in. When a bike is in an accident the number one response is, "I didn't see the motorcycle". So as a rider you learn to pay extra attention and watch more closely for signs that people may not see you, intend to turn infront of you, are going to rear-end you, etc. All of these things hold true in a 914 as well. Just stay alert and think, "they don't see me".
The 914 does have "crush-zones" front and rear and the targa bar for roll-over prtection. There is not much side protection and with the height of most of today's cars and trucks there just isn't much saftey factor in these cars compared to a new car.
If you are concerned, or want your mother to be less concerned, you might follow the advice of some board members here to find a car with a roll-bar already installed. Since it is winter you might even find a deal on someone's "track-car" that is still street legal.
Good luck, post some pics when you buy your 914. 914World.com is an invaluable tool to keep your 914 on the road and making you smile.
Now I am 31 and I have a Boxster as my daily and a pretty nice 914 just for fun. I am also an avid motocyclist... don't worry I am getting to the point.
After driving the Boxster for 3 years getting back into a 914 seemed a bit scary. The car is small, a bit noisy, and you feel everything going on under the tires... oh right that is what makes it so much fun. It is all how you look at it. After driving my 914 for about a thousand miles I am used to it again and do not "feel" any less safe than in my Boxster.
Having said that the car is 30 years old and as you know does not have modern brakes, airbags, etc. like the Boxster. I have to remember that when driving but once you get used to it you never think about it, the car simply feels right.
The weird part is that a lot of people do not see me in the Boxster and no one sees me in the 914... even the bright color isn't enough when you are sitting below most peoples bumpers let alone the line of sight from their mirrors. This is where the motorcycle experience comes in. When a bike is in an accident the number one response is, "I didn't see the motorcycle". So as a rider you learn to pay extra attention and watch more closely for signs that people may not see you, intend to turn infront of you, are going to rear-end you, etc. All of these things hold true in a 914 as well. Just stay alert and think, "they don't see me".
The 914 does have "crush-zones" front and rear and the targa bar for roll-over prtection. There is not much side protection and with the height of most of today's cars and trucks there just isn't much saftey factor in these cars compared to a new car.
If you are concerned, or want your mother to be less concerned, you might follow the advice of some board members here to find a car with a roll-bar already installed. Since it is winter you might even find a deal on someone's "track-car" that is still street legal.
Good luck, post some pics when you buy your 914. 914World.com is an invaluable tool to keep your 914 on the road and making you smile.
quickly, just keep in mind that a cage/roll bar may be MORE dangerous without you being VERY securely tied in with a 5-6 point harness AND that you need padding on the bars.
Just general babbling, aimed at no one in particular:
I hate airbags and if one uses a seatbelt they aren't needed. Don't try to convince me otherwise, I've done the research and just don't like 'em. Nuf said.
I agree w/HI_FI_GUY as I'm a motorcyclest as well. I drive/ride under the assumption that NOBODY can see me and that EVERYBODY is a deaf, dumb, and a blind blitheringly drunk idiot. That has saved me from numerous accidents, small and large. So defensive driving is necessary. I call it aggressive driving because I'm being proactive (aggressive) and not reactive (defensive). Learn how to see at least 8 seconds ahead...it's tough! but you are a much better prepared driver/rider if you can.
My advice would be, NEVER SKIMP ON TIRES! Your tires are what stop you!! Get the good and sticky ones, at least with a treadwear no more than 300 (rule of thumb: The greater the number, the longer it will last but the less grip it will have). I know from personal experience that a 30mph - 35mph frontal impact into a wall will result in no injuries for the seatbelted driver and passenger. I also know that cheap tires will most likely get you into that accident
I hate airbags and if one uses a seatbelt they aren't needed. Don't try to convince me otherwise, I've done the research and just don't like 'em. Nuf said.
I agree w/HI_FI_GUY as I'm a motorcyclest as well. I drive/ride under the assumption that NOBODY can see me and that EVERYBODY is a deaf, dumb, and a blind blitheringly drunk idiot. That has saved me from numerous accidents, small and large. So defensive driving is necessary. I call it aggressive driving because I'm being proactive (aggressive) and not reactive (defensive). Learn how to see at least 8 seconds ahead...it's tough! but you are a much better prepared driver/rider if you can.
My advice would be, NEVER SKIMP ON TIRES! Your tires are what stop you!! Get the good and sticky ones, at least with a treadwear no more than 300 (rule of thumb: The greater the number, the longer it will last but the less grip it will have). I know from personal experience that a 30mph - 35mph frontal impact into a wall will result in no injuries for the seatbelted driver and passenger. I also know that cheap tires will most likely get you into that accident
Wow. Thanks a lot for all the info, fellas. That's one thing anyone who's frequented Jap imports forums isn't used to. Everyone hates newbies, and the posts are rarely helpful or well-written. Most guys seem to think "w00t, i 0wn u" or "dood, WTF, dat sh!t is tyte" are complete, informative posts.
I know I'm gonna sound like a typical prick 20 year old, but I really am a very good driver. I pay more attention to my driving than most motorists pay to their phone conversations. I refuse to skimp on parts (brakes, tires especially) and maintain my vehicles extremely well. If it needs it, it gets it. As a cyclist (the pedal type), I'm also very used to being the smaller unnoticed vehicle, and definitely draw on that experience while driving.
I've been lurking on these forums trying to learn as much as possible before taking the plunge. These cars really seem to be right up my alley. The one I'm looking at is very well maintained and will cost right around $6000. Once I milk some more info on it out of the owner, I'll post and just make sure it's a reasonable price, but it looks just right now.
Can't wait to join you all,
Cole
I know I'm gonna sound like a typical prick 20 year old, but I really am a very good driver. I pay more attention to my driving than most motorists pay to their phone conversations. I refuse to skimp on parts (brakes, tires especially) and maintain my vehicles extremely well. If it needs it, it gets it. As a cyclist (the pedal type), I'm also very used to being the smaller unnoticed vehicle, and definitely draw on that experience while driving.
I've been lurking on these forums trying to learn as much as possible before taking the plunge. These cars really seem to be right up my alley. The one I'm looking at is very well maintained and will cost right around $6000. Once I milk some more info on it out of the owner, I'll post and just make sure it's a reasonable price, but it looks just right now.
Can't wait to join you all,
Cole
Cole if you like I can help with looking it over at the trouble spots.
| QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 8 2005, 05:44 PM) |
| Facinating this should come up now. I'm working on the very same thing. Was going to call it the MattRBag, but name was taken. So here's the new AaronBag! |
i hate you so much
| QUOTE (ws91420 @ Jan 8 2005, 08:43 PM) |
| Cole if you like I can help with looking it over at the trouble spots. |
Cool! I sure appreciate the offer, but it's down in Florida. I don't wanna drag you all the way down there =0)
I might take up your offer on one of the ones nearby, though.
Thanks a lot,
Cole
| QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 8 2005, 09:16 PM) | ||
i hate you so much |
just don't want you to think I only pick on some admins
| QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 8 2005, 09:19 PM) | ||||
just don't want you to think I only pick on some admins |
Howard is an equal opportunity pick on anyone type of guy. So I think it is only fair to let this new guy know that for a small fee, we could put Howard in the front of his car. that is the biggest airbag he could hope for.
I cant believe nobody else said that first.
speaking of air, scott's chalon spends way toooo much time up in the air on jack stands
....Drum Roll......Blaring Trumpets........Flags Waving......Thousands Cheering......21 Weapon Salute.....Cannon Fire......... 
SKline finally came up with something funny on his own........(see other thread)........Shalom
SKline finally came up with something funny on his own........(see other thread)........Shalom
| QUOTE (SLITS @ Jan 8 2005, 11:34 PM) |
| ....Drum Roll......Blaring Trumpets........Flags Waving......Thousands Cheering......21 Weapon Salute.....Cannon Fire......... SKline finally came up with something funny on his own........(see other thread)........Shalom |
heheh
even a blind squirrel finds an acorn evry once in a while
There's a company that makes an air bag that goes on the three point seat belts on small planes. It's a retro-fit for older planes. I'm sure it doesn't meet DOT standards (nor does a 30 year old seat belt, nor racing seat belt systems), but, if I felt I really needed an air bag, I'd look into it. Pick up any airplane magazine and you'll see the ad.
Being an EMS worker, air bags in my experience do alot toward saving lives. It was a deciding factor in my purchase of a new truck several years ago. YMMV. I have three street motorcyles, two TR8's, 914, 4X4, Cessna 182, and a truck with airbags, guess where I feel the safest.
Being an EMS worker, air bags in my experience do alot toward saving lives. It was a deciding factor in my purchase of a new truck several years ago. YMMV. I have three street motorcyles, two TR8's, 914, 4X4, Cessna 182, and a truck with airbags, guess where I feel the safest.
| QUOTE (Slowpoke @ Jan 9 2005, 08:54 AM) |
| Being an EMS worker, air bags in my experience do alot toward saving lives. It was a deciding factor in my purchase of a new truck several years ago. YMMV. I have three street motorcyles, two TR8's, 914, 4X4, Cessna 182, and a truck with airbags, guess where I feel the safest. |
All due respect, but seeing the aftermath of individual accidents doesn't qualify anyone for determining if airbags work. All accidents are different, and unless you have a way of seeing the same accident with and without airbags, there's real no way of knowing if the airbag helped or harmed the situation.
I would qualify the above with stating that I have no doubt that an airbag CAN help in a situation where the seatbelt wasn't used. However, I have a very hard time believing that airbags help in cases where the seatbelt was used properly. Saying the airbag saved someone's life because they didn't use their seatbelt is probably correct, but one could also say that not drinking a fifth of scotch before they got behind the wheel also saved their life. Both statements would be equally accurate.
Sorry, this is just one of my hot button issues. EMS workers are wonderful people, but from time to time, I've heard them make statements that have terrible consequences later. I have little doubt the Mom that started this whole discussion was told by a doctor or EMS worker that an airbag would have saved her husband's life, and that statement was made with virtually zero authority or accuracy. The statement was well-meant, but has now convinced this woman that airbags are 100% required. I've witnessed similar statements affect the survivors negatively for the rest of their lives.
Welcome to the club, and sorry to hijack the thread before, but just too good of an opportunity to bag on a buddy. Opinion from an old guy with a bit of racing experience who is an insurance broker with 40 years reading accident reports. Much of this has been said, but..
Drive like you are invisible to other drivers. They are all out to get you
Maintain your equipment
No daydreaming, music, cel phones while you are the pilot
Air bags may save lives, but sometimes increase injuries. Insurance studies show a slight increase in medical payments on airbag equipped cars
Roll cage? Great, but impractical for street use. Increased injury factor unless you wear a proper (SA rated) helmet and 5 point belts.
Side impact in a 914? A Harley will kill you; an SUV will kill you a lot. Try to avoid
Bottom line. It's the collision with YOUR car's interior that usually causes the injuries. Protect yourself from that! IMHO bags are good, but 5 point belts properly secured are better.
Drive like you are invisible to other drivers. They are all out to get you
Maintain your equipment
No daydreaming, music, cel phones while you are the pilot
Air bags may save lives, but sometimes increase injuries. Insurance studies show a slight increase in medical payments on airbag equipped cars
Roll cage? Great, but impractical for street use. Increased injury factor unless you wear a proper (SA rated) helmet and 5 point belts.
Side impact in a 914? A Harley will kill you; an SUV will kill you a lot. Try to avoid
Bottom line. It's the collision with YOUR car's interior that usually causes the injuries. Protect yourself from that! IMHO bags are good, but 5 point belts properly secured are better.
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