Fun morning up in Auburn getting my car tested. All went well, the guy who ran the dyno, Craig was a lot of help. My tuning was relatively close but I see now why the dyno is a must. The ability to run the car along at a constant vacuum allows you to really dial in the air fuel mixture. Craig was able to coax a couple more at HP at WOT but the real pay off was in smoothing out the power curve.

Here's us watching the set up, Geoff (Bleyseng) is taking the picture, myself, Kevin Powers (Rhodyguy) and Blair_Racerboy.

There were only 2 problems. Craig tried to start the car in 2nd and found reverse so the car tried to climb out of the dyno since it was only chalked against reverse and not tied down. The guys behind the car were yelling like mad and looked mighty uncomfortable. After that, Craig always looked at the rear wheels when he started. Maybe it's time to consider one of those new shifter kits.

The second problem was when Kevin yelled "BOOM" with the car going all out. Craig looked mighty uncomfortable and got right off the trottle. I'm sure he expected a terrible clatter and a big puddle of oil. He never seemed to sit quite as comfortably after that. No puddle in the seat though.

After finishing up we went Freddy's Club for some lunch and a chance to swap stories. Fun morning

Spirit on the dyno

Again

WOT

79.3 hp, 100 ft lbs. It looks klike Megasquirt can be a reasonable replacement for the Djet.

Dave

Special thanks to Geoff, Blair and Kevin you guys helped make it a lot of fun.

Is max HP @ 4500 typical for a type IV ?

I forgot about Kevin yelling "boom", now that was funny! Always the joker....
Yeah, Sean, all the dyno sheets I have seen show that. Need to port the heads and stiffer springs to move that anywhere.
Hey Dave, I saw 80.5hp on the screen. Whats with the 79.3hp as the top or he didn't print that run out?
Geoff

Yes.

Now you know why I tell peopl to shift around 5k rpm.


B

"peopl"?

Cool!

I'm on the laptop.. and couldnt figure out why we needed two threads for this.


B

From looking at the pics of your dyno room Brad, your set up will be awesome!! This was a ok set up but they aren't set up for P cars. Lots of 'merican iron in that shop. The owner said he'd put a V8 into a 914 before.
Geoff
cuz we posted info at the same time. I had gotten a few pm's wondering how it went so I posted to satisfy the crowd.

i thought max HP was at 5900 rpm? i believe that is what i read...

is this a 1.7 L motor?

I liked the place. Looks like he can make some noise out there. We have to *think* about the neighbors.

B

no, after 5000rpms a stock 2.0l hp curve drops like its falling into the Grand Canyon, straight down.

sorry! i just looked at the pic...it is a 2.0. that amount of hp seems a little low for a 2.0 i thought stock was 96 hp?

96 at the flywheel for a stock Euro engine.


B

Some shops use a 12-15% loss for drivetrain.

B

ok...so this is..."at the rear wheels" HP....ok.

how much does dyno time run for an hour?

Geoff the highest hp I have that is printed says 79.3. Some of the graphs look like they go higher but that really doesn't matter. The car runs real well and I'm satisfied that I'm getting the most this motor in this configuration can give me. However, now that I can fuel more I suppose I'll want more. God this thing is starting to look like boat ( a hole in the water into which you throw money).

Dave

Brad, I got out of there for $213. $125 an hour. It could have gone faster but Craig had his nose in a couple of other things. I had to raise a real stink even to get on the dyno. Still, it was real help.

Dave

Yeah Dave, but its a good hole! AXing is next which is way fun.
The car did run really smooth much better than when I was in it at the breakfast!
Geoff

Dave,

you have done a awesome job. I'm kinda surprised that he was charging 125$ an hour. The shops around here charge 80 or so. Maybe its because we have "other choices"


B

Dave, thanks for posting the dyno results. Other than the F/I, is your 2.0 stock? What is your mileage like?

The shop where I sometimes go (a Corvette shop) for chassis dyno time also gets $125 per hour if they are doing the tuning. I get time for $75/hr if they are just operating the computer and buttons. I usually do the driving and all the adjustments myself. While I'm fiddling, they go find something else to do. I'd rather not have someone unfamiliar with my 914's quirks behind the wheel.

It's good to see your results, but if you had one of my headers you would see a fatter torque curve, a higher HP peak and a flatter, smoother A/F curve

Chris, all you say is true but I like my heat. I had the top of this morning and needed to at least have warm feet. There are always compromises. Maybe I'll change my mind someday or someone can find another source of heat.

Dave

Dave,

I just couldn't resist the opportunity for a blatant plug of my stuff.

I will have a heat exchanger (foot warmer) for my header. It's just taking longer to get a round tuit than I thought.

Chris

Chris,


Keep working on the heat exchangers. It would be great to have warm feet and more poop too.

Dave

what i find interesting is the torque line. nice grunt. dan's car pulls well. the af ratio is another point of interest. at high rpm it went just rich, just a few dark puffs, geoff pointed out it should. just great, motor is just about ready for startup. but first i have to pull a jet stack to see where i'm at. dan gets to poke a few keys to adjust things. i'll need a hand full of jets if i dyno. well there goes the form vee wheels or another set of fuchs. crap. dan, did you notice any diff, when you throttled up in 5th on the freeway? more pull between 60 and 80?

kevin

Kevin

The car just runs a lot smoother. I can't say I notice the difference in terms of power. It just feels like runs very , very well. he guy knew his stuff. Everything he suggested helped.

Dave

Dave, what is your mileage like?

Jeff,

I haven't kept track of it. This is my toy. If it gets thristy I give it what it likes. I'm resonably sure it would be comparable to other 2.0L running Djet.

In my mind, at least, I think I've created a close copy of a stock Djet that is well tuned. It will probably perform about the same as any stock car that has been well maintained.

The payoff comes if I make changes to the motor. I should be able to simply retune. However after yesterday I realize retuning will include dyno time for sure.

Dave

I'm sure there are a lot of 2.0 owners considering megasquirt now, who would gladly pay $20 each for a copy of your tuning map in order to help offset some of your developement costs. Not a great new business idea, but it might make the wife happy if it puts a dent in your expenditures.

-Ben M.

Ben,

I don't have any intention to charge anybody for my stuff. It'll take a few days to get the stuff up but my intention has always been to share whatever I could. I got a lot of enjoyment out of working on this and feel well enough compensated. I'm looking forward to the day somebody else gets one going and says that my stuff helped.

One of the great things about this board and the 914 community in general ias the free flow of information.

Dave

I appreciate your integrity. I agree that information should flow freely. I just didn't want you to bear the financial burden alone, but if you feel adequately compensated already, that's great. I hope those who benefit from your work will return the favor in some way, or find a way to "pay it forward". I really love the "community" aspect of this group. 10 years ago I had my first 914 and not a clue. Didn't know who to talk to or where to get information. Made a lot of mistakes and had a lot of heartaches. Now we've got this huge pool of experience, information, and enthusiasm to draw on. It's quite awsome.

-Ben M.

Has anybody asked about cold start ?? Did you leave the AaR in place and tune around it accroding to air intake temp/oil temp ??


B

Amen, Ben! When I got my first 914 the best resource I had was the AA catalog and it's exploded view parts diagrams. We've come a long way!

Brad,

I used an idle solenoid from a Golf. It's not perfect as it is all or nothing. It goes off at a set temperature as read by the CHT. Warm up enrichment ends at the same time so the engine goes flat for a moment. The AAR would certainly work for extra air but with the warmup enrichment controlled by the CHT would end way before the AAR closes and I was concerned it would be too lean. The ideal solution is a stepper setup. But, at this point Megasquirt won't support that.

Next winter I would like to do an ignition system. Currently, there is a project called Megajolt light that will control a IAC stepper system and knock sensing and ion feedback. It is bases on the Ford EDIS system so I guess my 914 will be a real bastard.

Another consideration is the voltage required to run the contrller for the wide band O2 sensor. The DIY board I have needs a minimum of 13 Volts and that is a stretch for the charging system when the lights, blower, defroster, etc. are all on. There is a kit out of Australia that only requires 11 Volts, but, I don't know if the input is supported. I think mine is the best solution.

Dave

Knock sensing will not work on an aircooled engine.

They're just to noisy to start with.

Better call Porsche and have them recall all the 993's then.

"can't use knock sensor on aircooled engine" = old wives tale

-Ben M.

He he he. Don't sweat it Dave. Right now I'm running the MIC3 ECU from South Africa, a home-made ignition amp, Subaru injectors, BMW fuel pump, Holley throttle-body off a Chrysler (it was the right size and had AAR), and the car runs great.

So how does it feel to be a 914 outlaw?
-Ben M.

IIRC Aircooled.net sells a unit and Jake Raby tested it successfully on his dyno on a Type 4.

Somehow I like the term outlaw better than bastard. Let's see TPS is off a Subaru Impreza, Fast Idle solenoid off of a Golf. assorted parts of the FI harness off of several Vanagons, O2 sensor off of a Honda Civic. Wheels off of a Bug. And I've got the EDIS off an Escort in the garage. Nope still sounds like a bastard.

Dave

Guess we can't allow you to attend anymore events with that Bastard car of yours.
Geoff