thomasotten
Apr 19 2014, 09:34 PM
Hello,
I was fortunate to find a 1966 912 for sale and purchased it. No engine, no transmission... no seats!
So the car is rough, but restorable. I was wondering what my club's opinions on the car would be.
An immediate question I have is on the viability of putting in a type IV engine in the car. It just seems that would be easier to find than an original 912/356 engine. But would that hurt the resale?
Just looking over the car, in addition to the above mentioned missing items, I will need new floor pans, dash pad, door panels, gas tank, and and and...
Is this a super money pit? What would this car bring restored? (low and high)
P.S. The two tone paint is because the owner was trying to learn to paint.
Thanks,
Elliot Cannon
Apr 19 2014, 09:43 PM
The tires don't look too bad.
PanelBilly
Apr 19 2014, 09:59 PM
Outlaw car! Do whatever you please. Its not ever going to be original again. Put a suby in it and drive
2mAn
Apr 19 2014, 10:07 PM
since its missing anything that would make its resale high (original parts) I say get wild.
bdstone914
Apr 19 2014, 10:14 PM
Putting a type IV engine will be a lot cheaper and easier to find. The sheet metal to sela it may be challenging.
Check out the cars for sale on the 912 Registry. The are going up in value but they value original cars.
If it is worth the cost to restore it to your desired level got for it.
Bruce
bdstone914
Apr 19 2014, 10:17 PM
QUOTE(bdstone914 @ Apr 19 2014, 09:14 PM)
Putting a type IV engine will be a lot cheaper and easier to find. The sheet metal to seal may be challenging.
A type I motor might be easier. Some guys do that to drive them and not where the 912 engine.
Check out the cars for sale on the 912 Registry. The are going up in value but they value original cars.
If it is worth the cost to restore it to your desired level got for it.
Bruce
And I have a 1966 rebuilt 5 speed if you decide to go for it.
RonW
Apr 19 2014, 10:19 PM
Done both the t4 and currently running suby motor/trans. Like what was mentioned earlier, do what makes u happy.
My $0.02
ConeDodger
Apr 19 2014, 11:26 PM
Find a 6... 2.0 liter...
Not real sure but those things are worth a fortune these days and you might catch a tail wind...
r3dplanet
Apr 19 2014, 11:34 PM
I really, really, really miss my 912. I look around from time to time but they're always crazy expensive. If I found one like the one you found I'd be all over it, too. I'd go with a Type-4 engine for sure.
GeorgeRud
Apr 19 2014, 11:38 PM
I'd go for a type 4 as well. They can be quite bulletproof, relatively inexpensive, and you would escape emission requirements with the age of the car.
It would make a nice, fun car when you're finished. Enjoy your project in good health!
roachghia70
Apr 20 2014, 12:00 AM
QUOTE(PanelBilly @ Apr 19 2014, 08:59 PM)
Outlaw car! Do whatever you please. Its not ever going to be original again. Put a suby in it and drive
Agreed! SUBARU.
Ive built a few stroked T4 engines, and a few stroked T1 engines, but after driving cars with stock Subarus swapped in (bugs, 914s, and even a VW Bus) I won't do anything but Subaru. It just doesn't make sense to spend twice as much on a T4 build, just to get half the power, a quarter the reliability, and require 6 times the regular maintenance. Not to mention the oil leaks!
It's an outlaw car anyway, so stick a Subaru in there! Just take the time to do it clean, with minimal cutting of the car, and you won't regret it.
ipadstott
Apr 20 2014, 04:18 AM
That is one of my favourites, if you want to keep it all Porsche consider a nice engine from Jake Raby. I look forward to watching your progress, hope you post often with great pics!
Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada
r_towle
Apr 20 2014, 05:55 AM
A rebuilt 356 motor will be 10k.
Not hard to find, and will raise the value more than any type 4 motor.
Rich
barefoot
Apr 20 2014, 08:35 AM
IIRC the 1976 912E had a type 4 motor, engine tins somewhat different from 914 parts, so somewhat rarer.
rick 918-S
Apr 20 2014, 09:59 AM
Outlaw. If it were mine I would use a type IV or Porsche 6. But that's just me.
colingreene
Apr 20 2014, 12:36 PM
idk find a stock motor and hot rod it.
smarens
Apr 20 2014, 12:54 PM
I have been looking/thinking about 912 also, not really interested in an original so I was looking at cars similar to what you found, I was thinking of Type IV motor in it or for what I thought would be $3-$4k more renegade kit for 911, didn't finish research to see if everything would work
JmuRiz
Apr 20 2014, 12:58 PM
I'd make a 912/6 without a second thought with that as a base.
patrick3000
Apr 20 2014, 01:50 PM
QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Apr 20 2014, 02:58 PM)
I'd make a 912/6 without a second thought with that as a base.
X2 a 2.7 would work very well in that car.
Drums66
Apr 20 2014, 03:21 PM
...Try to do it up original!.........& things could get very prosperous
God bless(he lives!)
David Stowers
Apr 20 2014, 03:45 PM
Put a six cylinder Porsche engine in, 2.4, 2.7, 3.0, 3.2. It deserves it, please don't hack lumps out of it to put a Subaru engine in it.
john77
Apr 20 2014, 04:16 PM
Sounds from your post like you plan to build something to sell.
Not too familiar with 912 prices, but I know the 911 bubble has dragged them up. Looks like a money pit right now, who knows though, 10 years from now it might be worth 2014 911T barn find money
Might be worth looking at what it will cost to drop a 6 in it and do all the other necessary upgrades. The 911 market is so crazy right now that a lot of people priced out of it will be willing to forgive the fact this started life as a 912 and pay good money if you build it into a nice "911" hotrod. At that point the originality won't matter just the quality of the build.
Johny Blackstain
Apr 20 2014, 04:22 PM
I'd turn it into a street legal 911 GT1, the only mid engine 911 ever made, but I'm a bit eccentric...
thomasotten
Apr 20 2014, 08:34 PM
QUOTE(David Stowers @ Apr 20 2014, 01:45 PM)
please don't hack lumps out of it to put a Subaru engine in it.
I'm German, so no worries! Habt keine Angst!
boxstr
Apr 20 2014, 09:32 PM
I remeber my barn find 1967 912. It had a rat living in the smugglers box. Had to rebuild the calipers, frozen. After that it was just a lot of detailing and cleaning.
It was as much fun as all of the 911s that I have owned and driven. Personally I would embrace the stock 912restoration. The 912 registry is an excellent place to find out more information and supplier and vendors contacts.
Good luck with your project.
Craig at CAMP
Dr Evil
Apr 20 2014, 10:51 PM
Corvair motor
carr914
Apr 21 2014, 04:46 AM
I would just stash it away and wait for Early 912s to go higher in price
Jake Raby
Apr 21 2014, 04:53 AM
I have a fresh 2.4/6 that I don't have a use for.. Was just going to make it look pretty and put it in my office at home, on a stand…. You need it more than I do! :-)
Dave_Darling
Apr 21 2014, 08:27 AM
I'm thinking that, for resale value, having a 912 engine (not a 912E engine) would be the best.
If it's not for resale, figure out what makes you grin the hardest and go for it...
--DD
veekry9
Apr 21 2014, 09:42 AM
Hi-912
Click to view attachmentA YellowMellow
Click to view attachmentBlockLessHeads
Click to view attachmentCranknRods
A close approximation of the factory product will always have good value,that said the expenses to get there makes it hard to justify.
I have a '72 914 engine+tx that would fit midway!
Be the first..
thomasotten
May 3 2014, 06:12 AM
Curious, are will the normal 912 engine mounts work for a type IV conversion on the 912?
ClayPerrine
May 3 2014, 07:03 AM
I have, sitting behind my house, a 68 912. It is destined to become a 912-6 when I get time to work on it.
Yellow paint job, upgraded brakes to vented disks, and a 2.4L six in it. I have all the parts in my garage for the engine and trans. I just need a set of 40IDA3c carbs and manifolds. Or maybe I will go megasquirt with it.
But I am making a 912-6 badge for the back, just to piss off the Porsche purists.
maf914
May 3 2014, 07:21 AM
QUOTE(thomasotten @ Apr 19 2014, 07:34 PM)
An immediate question I have is on the viability of putting in a type IV engine in the car. It just seems that would be easier to find than an original 912/356 engine. But would that hurt the resale?
Thanks,
The ShopTalkForums have plenty of info concerning Type 4 912 conversions, but you may have to dig a bit. One forum member, Griznant, did a nice conversion and made multiple posts concerning it. Several of the regulars from 914World made comments as well. This was years ago, wow time flies. Try the following links. You may have to register to access all features on the site.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.ph...788&start=0http://www.shoptalkforums.com/search.php?a...37&sr=postshttp://www.shoptalkforums.com/memberlist.p...ofile&u=337http://www.shoptalkforums.com/index.php
mepstein
May 3 2014, 07:44 AM
If you try to fix it up to sell, you will be upside down, even if you got the car for free. If you want to make money, wholesale it, that is, sell it in its present condition for more than you paid. -no risk, all profit, aka- flip
bcheney
May 3 2014, 07:49 AM
It's definitely a money pit....all restorations are! If you need replacement sheet metal Restoration Design is a great place for advice and parts.
http://www.restoration-design.com/mm5/merc...ry_Code=911-CHA912 values most likely will go up and I agree that putting a Porsche 6 is the route of choice unless you are going for a full restoration to bring it back to it's original glory. I would consider talking to Jake about his 2.4. He is well respected in the community. I have a buddy here in Florida who has a 912 and he is nearing the end of his restoration and loves the car! Just decide what your budget and overall goal is and go for it...then, along the way you can just adopt the US Navy's thinking..."A plan is simply a basis for change"! Have fun!!
r_towle
May 3 2014, 08:11 AM
QUOTE(thomasotten @ May 3 2014, 08:12 AM)
Curious, are will the normal 912 engine mounts work for a type IV conversion on the 912?
No, and yes.
There is a rear bar for the 912-e that you need.
That is the one year with the type 4 motor, so it won't be simple to find, but if you look at one, you might be able to make it.
There is also 912-e engine tin, again for the type 4
The 912-e was a one year only 1976 car.
Dave_Darling
May 3 2014, 04:30 PM
Not only was the 912E a one-year car, but there were only 2099 of them made. I'll let you figure out how likely you are to find parts from one.
It's probably easier to fabricate your own mount, which will go to the stock mounting points.
--DD
jmalone
May 3 2014, 05:07 PM
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Apr 20 2014, 09:51 PM)
Corvair motor
Yep, your Evil.
BKLA
May 3 2014, 07:00 PM
$$$ no object? Go Polo! 4cyl based on the 6. Bring big money, tho!
thomasotten
May 4 2014, 08:53 AM
Thanks for the links.
On ebay right now: This awesome car seems to utilize the bus motor mount.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-912-912-91...=US_Cars_Trucks
McMark
May 4 2014, 09:20 AM
I agree with going to a six.
But I make some mounting stuff for the conversion which is based on the 912E stuff. You can use the bus engine bar and the stock engine mounts. But the 912E style system removes about 5-8" of height from the engine bar to body mount span. Using the stock body mounts with the type 4 results in a long U shaped mount bar. This tends to allow the motor to shift forward/backward in the car because it has so much leverage. It works. I've done it. But it's not great and will chew up transmission mounts pretty quickly. Add body mounts below the frame rail and you'll be much better off.
KELTY360
May 4 2014, 09:21 AM
QUOTE(thomasotten @ May 4 2014, 06:53 AM)
Thanks for the links.
On ebay right now: This awesome car seems to utilize the bus motor mount.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-912-912-91...=US_Cars_TrucksBarnum was right.
thomasotten
May 24 2014, 01:21 AM
Since I am leaning towards a six, what is conventional wisdom as to the largest motor that I could install and still use the original gearbox?
Another related question. This is a SWB car. I presume that means I must stay with a SWB transmission. I want a fairly straightforward six conversion.
Dave_Darling
May 24 2014, 02:26 PM
Andy's got a 993 3.6 liter in front of a 901-based 914 gearbox... It will work as long as it's in good shape and you don't abuse it.
--DD
thomasotten
May 28 2014, 06:54 AM
Thinking of doing a 2.4 Liter or 2.7 Liter 911 engine install, and keeping the fuel injection system intact. Do these engines require an ECU or brain box similar to the 914's fuel injection system? I other words, if I buy one of these engines, is there some electronics that I need to make sure I acquire as well?
JmuRiz
May 28 2014, 07:45 AM
2.4 CIS and 2.7CIS do not have a brain. They are very simple systems. If you have a 2.4 with carbs they are super simple as well, the 2.4 MFI are complex but do-able if they MFI is tuned correctly.
Steve
May 28 2014, 12:30 PM
I would do a 2.4-2.7 if you want to stay with the stock trans. 3.2-3.6 you will end up starting off in second and more or less only have a 4 speed. 2.4-2.7 you can use an early 2.0 flywheel and stock clutch. I loved my 2.7 with webers and the stock trans.
thomasotten
May 28 2014, 06:28 PM
So the 2.4 and 2.7 do not have a brain box like the 914 fuel injection? So then it is pretty simple bolt on then, huh? Do you need an external oil cooler for either 2.4 or the 2.7?
JmuRiz
May 28 2014, 06:46 PM
Need...no, want...yes
bigkensteele
May 28 2014, 06:59 PM
If you decide to go with a T4, I have a set of engine tin that I have pulled off my 2.7 donor which could be used to fashion a set for your conversion. I would be glad to donate to your cause.
If you go with a 2.7, look for a '74. They did not have the thermal reactors that caused the later engines to bake themselves. Most have been rebuilt by now, but I have been told is that a '74 is what you want to start with.
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