I'm at a crossroad in my 914 experience. After getting all the engine components cleaned up and ready to go, I started my inspection. Turns out the PO never told me there was a good bit of piston slap. So I'm turning a different route and I would like to get more information on the 2270.

Does anyone know where I can get specifics about it? I hear a lot of upgrades from the 1.7 and 1.8L blocks, but not all that much from the 2L block? Is there a reason? Is there a way to get the added stroke without cracking the block?

Anyways, thanks for the info. Can't wait to actually drive this thing that sits in my garage and taunts me

There is alot on Jake's site at:

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/type4/9...0_performer.htm

Some other members here have built 2270's so search for their experiences.

QUOTE (SLKWrx @ Jan 16 2005, 10:51 AM)

Is there a way to get the added stroke without cracking the block?

No...you have to tear down the whole engine for this work.

Once you go this route 1.7/1.8/2.0 makes no differance, but if you have a 2.0 your ahead because you have better head cores.

A different stroke means a different crankshaft. That means a full tear down.

Hm.. I'm sad to hear that. It looks like the additional stroke will have to wait. Cracking the block was actually the line that I didn't want to cross. I had taken a look at Jake's site, his engines insane.. His site was actually what got me thinking about trying it on my own. Still have too much and before I can spend a lot on the engine.

Looks like the hunt is on for a good set of 94mm's without breaking the bank

Thanks for all the info

See Jake buy a Jake motor. Or at least some NIckyes

Building a 2270 is not an easy thing to do. If you don't get exactly the right parts, you will be dealing with interferance issues that will seem impossible to correct.

Even with a reduced basecircle cam and T1 rods, I still had to do some grinding. I don't know how Jake is doing larger strokes than that! It's amazing!

But, it's a blast to drive...

Later,
Tom

I found this site to be fairly educational for someone just starting to try and figure it all out.

http://www.type4parts.com/cat_which.cfm

they also sell 2270 upgrade kits...but somehow this seems to good to be true. does anyone have any experience with these guys?

Their kits don't use nickies, so my question is: how much of an issue will heat be using cast iron cylinders? anyone?

I believe that's Steve of Pelican & Otto's

I built a 2270 for my last car using the cast iron cylinders. I didnt have a heat problem once I added an external oil cooler. Very strong motor. Steve helped me out with it to resolve some clearance problems I had. He knows what he is doing. I had asked sevaral experts what the problem was that I was having, he was the only one that knew.

he lists stuff for sale, but doesn't post here anymore, I'm surprised by that

He does post here, just not as much. I see him here all the time. He is not very far from me either. I like having him local. He is an excellent resource and friendly. He likes our cars and that makes him a better source in my opinion. He has an interest in keeping these on the road. He is also very helpful with advice. He has loaned me tools in the past that I would not have been able to find in a pinch. In fact, just last week, he came over and helped me make a new shift rod for the Chalon, in the rain and didnt charge me. I consider him a friend and a good resource for parts and service.

All Type IV engines are about to become alot easier and more affordable to create....

Trust me......

We are down to the single digits and counting for the big unveiling!

Ok Jake, its a race between you and Brad (his e commerce site) to see who debuts first!

The loser is a loser.

Geoff

But mine is totally different than his....

Way different content!

I don't think that is the point Jake The parts dealer to first put the product out on the street WINS. Doesn't matter if I were selling purple apples. It's been so long waiting for the aluminum hubs to come out I pretty much gave up and found a different path.

My point is don't try to have a prefect site, the first to have something up and running gets the sales! Second place usually means no sales= loser. Yeah, I know Brads will be different content but.....
Still waiting for both sites to be up and running instead of promises, promises.....

Geoff

i don't have a 2270... but a few things to consider first. how do you plan on delivering fuel to the engine? f.i or carbs? which f.i? do you plan on running heat exchangers or going to headers? there are a number of things to consider BEFORE you settle on the displacement you want.

kevin

My site has to be extensive, because of part compatibility and etc. If its not I go nuts answering questions!

No races here, I have been working wide open on this since July- 20 hours a day most of the time.

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Jan 17 2005, 11:01 AM)

i don't have a 2270... but a few things to consider first. how do you plan on delivering fuel to the engine? f.i or carbs? which f.i? do you plan on running heat exchangers or going to headers? there are a number of things to consider BEFORE you settle on the displacement you want. kevin

Those are all good questions.. Things I should have thought out earlier. For right now, I have carbs for the car, but I was thinking of going f.i. if I did the 2270. I was just thinking about using D-Jet.. is there a much better way to go? Also, I was planning on having heat exchangers since the car will be street driven a bit. I was already planning an oil cooler.. maybe not as extensive as a front mounted one, but I am still early in the process.

The reason I was considering the 2270 is because I'll need new cylinders and pistons.. I figured I'd find out if the 2270 was easier than I thought, because then I'd just go for the 96mm's. I can't see much benefit to going with anything above 94's w/o increasing the stroke.

Back to the drawing board.. seems like I just can't get a foothold on where to start anymore.

QUOTE (SLKWrx @ Jan 17 2005, 03:52 PM)

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Jan 17 2005, 11:01 AM) i don't have a 2270... but a few things to consider first. how do you plan on delivering fuel to the engine? f.i or carbs? which f.i? do you plan on running heat exchangers or going to headers? there are a number of things to consider BEFORE you settle on the displacement you want. kevin Those are all good questions.. Things I should have thought out earlier. For right now, I have carbs for the car, but I was thinking of going f.i. if I did the 2270. I was just thinking about using D-Jet.. is there a much better way to go? Also, I was planning on having heat exchangers since the car will be street driven a bit. I was already planning an oil cooler.. maybe not as extensive as a front mounted one, but I am still early in the process. The reason I was considering the 2270 is because I'll need new cylinders and pistons.. I figured I'd find out if the 2270 was easier than I thought, because then I'd just go for the 96mm's. I can't see much benefit to going with anything above 94's w/o increasing the stroke. Back to the drawing board.. seems like I just can't get a foothold on where to start anymore.

You're not going to get D-Jet to work with a 2270. You'll need to use aftermarket EFI, or stick with carbs.

96mm with the 2.0 stroke gives 2056cc, which is a mild bump over the stock 2.0 size, and aftermarket 96mm parts are cheaper than stock replacement parts, generally. I believe you can get a 2056 to work with D-Jet.

If you are starting with a 2.0 liter and you have all (ALL) the fins on your current cylinders, get them honed out to 96mm and get new pistons.

You will want to rework the rods if you had slap to begin with, also check the rod clearance on the existing crank before you remove the rods.

If you find to much play, you will need to take a really good look at the crank to ensure its a good base to build from.

I have a friend that has a very strong 2.6 liter motor with cast iron cylinder...never had oil cooling other than stock, but now he does....it goes about 5-7k before a refresh...

But, a properly cooled 2270 or larger have been built in europe for many years, lots of info across the pond and lots of experienced builders that have done it all, you name it they have built it.

Rich

Actually, the TIV is falling off in Germany these days.

With the new laws and etc in the fatherland many tuners that were once on top of the world have fallen off or went out of business.

Even in their day the Germans didn't do alot with small bores. They were into short stroke large bore engines with super long duration cams and hardly any lift. This was great for high speeds on the Autobahn but wasn't very good for acceleration...

The 2270 may have been done in a multitude of locations, but it was perfected right here under my roof- Thats a guarantee. I have 107 different proven combinations of 2270 and have used that base for more R&D than anything else combined.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 17 2005, 04:03 PM)

96mm with the 2.0 stroke gives 2056cc, which is a mild bump over the stock 2.0 size, and aftermarket 96mm parts are cheaper than stock replacement parts, generally. I believe you can get a 2056 to work with D-Jet.

Djet works just fine with a 2056cc, atleast mine has for 5 years. I have dyno'd it at 95hp at the rear wheels.

Geoff

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 17 2005, 08:37 AM)

All Type IV engines are about to become alot easier and more affordable to create.... Trust me...... We are down to the single digits and counting for the big unveiling!

Jake,

This sounds promising. After sucessfully building a semi stock 2.0 I think I am ready to consider building one of your 2270 kits. When will the details and pricing be available? Will you be providing cores?

Patience Jedi..

It all will be self explanatory very soon!

The custom aspect of the kits is gone forever, but they will still be 100% dynamically balanced like always and will have all machine and clearance work done for you

I still have not made my mind up on doing case machine work, but I am leaning towards doing it for an added charge only on the 2270 and larger kits, or simply providing very detailed instructions and tools to do it all yourself.

Case work really bogs my machines down.