OK all, I've spent the last year restoring a 73 2.0 with my son. For the last 2 months we have been trying to teach him to operate the clutch. I give! During this same time, I've been able to teach his younger brother and sister to drive the clutch. Guess some people can't figure it out. So I am considering updating to an automatic. Been researching the web and it appears the transaxle from the Audi 4000 is a good candidate. I would like to keep the standard 914 2.0 engine. Anybody have any experience in such a swap? What costs are involved other than the trans? Where do you go to get an adapter plate?

Little help and advice!
Thanks!

I just recently taught both of my children to drive stick.

DO you have any other man trans cars for him to try in?

My son could barely get my wife's Passat moving without stalling it a dozen times.
Then I let him try in my BRZ and he had no trouble at all.

One trick I learned: get them in a parking lot. verify the idle is good (a little high is better).
Have them start the car moving by only using the clutch, no gas at all.

Once they get the hang of getting the car to begin moving without giving it any gas, then have them try driving it normally again.
By doing it that way, you force them to figure out the clutch engagement point while not thinking about anything else.

I had to repeatedly tell my kids "The clutch is NOT an ON/OFF switch. It is more like a volume knob..."

Good luck either way.

Had the same issue with my niece; she ended up selling her VW Cabrio and getting an automatic Subie. She's a good athlete and I thought she'd pick it up easily.

Do you have any friends who might be able to help? Maybe a different perspective would help.

Years ago when I learned to drive, driving schools offered to teach manual transmission driving.

Maybe (no offense) you are not the "ideal" teacher for your son??? A professional might show him in a way he understands.

Good luck...... for his sake, I hope he gets the hang of a manual transmission.

I've taught tons of people when their parents or boyfriend gave up. Have someone else teach him. When my wife bought her first car at 17, her father made teaching how to drive manual as part of the deal for the salesperson. He was a smart man.

I learned that way myself and have taught a couple with the same method

once you get a feel for the clutch, your good. Pretty much the way I taught my son on my tail shift 914.

Go buy a 97 Saturn 5 speed for 700 bucks and drive him to an empty parking lot and leave him alone for 2 hours. If you've gone over the basics then he knows what to do, its just muscle memory at this point.

I've done the same for my wife, taught her for about an hour and she was just getting worse. Then grabbed something a bit easier and told he to just try it. Any glarily obvious mistakes I would point out after a few minutes not immediately.


Some people take the criticism personally and are more difficult to teach than others. I've taught about 7-8 people.

As for an automatic swap. The early passat/audi 5 speed automatic came in FWD. That trani could be used, but you would need to incorporate the controller.

Thanks for the advice all... Maybe I need to call up his "cool cousin" and see if he can give it a try for me.

But we have tried driving my Karmann Ghia, Mini Cooper, my dad's 8N tractor and even rented a Uhaul truck. All with disastrous results. I really think he doesn't have the coordination to master it. Plus I think putting an automatic in would be kinda fun!

The Correct Answer is don't let him try to drive the car anymore

If you haven't done so already, read about a 914 automatic, here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=101948&hl=

I made a rudimentary model to show mechanically what's going on to my GF. Sometimes, people learn better by showing them what's happening. After, she picked it right up after other fruitless efforts.

I learned on snow. Slippery surface was more forgiving with the clutch.

Where you are I guess I would have to suggest finding a gravel road.

My son has been having the same problem. I bought him a manual Honda Civic and he's having difficulty. He drives my wife's car now but I hope he gets the hang of it. Saw the pic below on Facebook and it made me laugh. It just might be the motivation they both need.

yup try what stugray said. no gas and let the clutch out slow. a 4 wheel drive with low range is easier too. a different teacher might help but nobody in the car is better. he knows what the controls do. maybe just needs some peace and quiet to concentrate. plus you can video it

Funny, when we were kids, NOBODY would have thought about driving an automatic. That is what old people drove.

Taught both of my daughters on country dirt roads, give it the gas, less chance to stall it. Also just learning the clutch only no gas method is good place to start.

It's called muscle memory.

Bring him to a flat, large parking lot.
You have told him the basics.

GET out of the car.

Let him learn it alone....stand where he cannot see you.

My daughter got it after about ten minutes, then drove us home.

Rich

Interesting. I never had to be "taught". I learned from watching my dad when I was young. I couldn't wait to drive a stick, and then he let me start when I was 14. I had a paper route that was much easier if a.) he got up at 5 in the morning and drove or b.) he let me drive around our neighborhood at 5 in the morning and hope I didn't get caught. Lucky for me, he chose b. The first time I ever stalled it was 2 years later when I was on my way to the driving test and I encountered my first hill.

The only person I ever tried to teach failed horribly. Of course, I was at a party, had too much to drink and was probably in no better shape to teach than I was to drive.

A 914 would be a really hard car to learn in, I would think.

Don't give up...keep it stock. If not, I was amazed how well one drives-even with a gutless 1.8. A 2 ltr automatic would be great.

Too funny, that is the same thing for me. Learned from watching and had an older friend with a POS so he didn't mind letting me try, then took over a paper route for a friend one month when I was 15 and after 1 day of getting up at 5, dad had enough and said take the car and your cousin and don't hit anything!

I completely understand and respect the challenge of figuring out how to put an automatic into a 914. That being said, let someone else IE "the cool cousin" give teaching a shot.

I learned to drive mostly with my parents. My mother put me on edge when I drove...it just happened. My father would light up a cigarette, stay calm and tell me what I did wrong when we got home.

The 914 is a raw sports car and is supposed to be a manual transmission.

I agree that a 914 might not be the best car to learn with. I had a 280Z that you could just dump the clutch and it would jerk and lurch, but refuse to stall. Taught a lot of people to drive a manual on the car.

do you know any one with a standard shift 4x4?

borrow it and put it in low range and let them learn the clutch in low range.

then high range, 4x4's usually have a bit better torque range to learn with.

funny about paper routes, I could do mine in half the time on my bike than if I was driven.

Mark, can you go back to your old thread and repair the pictures?

Yep, Monday through Saturday was on my old Mongoose as the paper was maybe 1/2" thick. Sunday was another story altogether when it was 1" or more with all the ads. That's when Pops had to help me. I remember the first time I heard him throw an F-bomb - it was after a night out with his boys. That was the last time he helped me deliver Sunday papers and when I got my chance to start driving.

To be honest, I miss that time with him, because now he is less one leg and has very little independence.

For you younger members, don't just fret about how quickly your kids are growing up - cherish the time you have with your folks before they get too old. They are the reason you are a great person (assumed, since you are here), and they should be honored, enjoyed and respected.

My Dad never really "got" me and my love for cars, but he taught me about life and being a good person. Perhaps failing at teaching your kid to drive a clutch could be one of the greatest gifts you could ever give him, since at the end of the day, he will know that you love him no matter what.

I cut my teeth driving manual on a 914. No floorboard too, so I had to really learn the "feel" for the clutch. I only drove it a few times and hadn't fully mastered it before that 914 was put on the bench. The 2nd car didn't have 1st gear for a while at first, so I was literally driving to school on 2nd-5th. Again, I was LEARNING on a carbed 2.0, which turned out to only be running on 3 cylinders and ended up having blown head gaskets. Oh, and hill starts in an underpowered carbed motor in 2nd with someone crowding your bumper are fun!

But anyways, don't convert the car. Maybe he just needs to watch some youtube videos, there are some really good ones that zoom in on what the feet are doing. Show him videos of manual cars being driven fast, good action sequences like Ronin, Bullitt, LeMans, Transporter, maybe Bourne. For me seeing movies that emphasized the manual shifting as part of the action motivated me to learn.

Usually the biggest problem in learning stick is not stalling the engine when starting out. You either hit the red line and dump the clutch or be more cautious and stall. It is hard to learn how to feather it in. My trick won't work for you exactly but I will describe it cause I think you can make an adaptation.

For both sons I took them to a neighborhood in winter where they didn't plow and it was icy. Change seats with the car nosed slightly downhill and viola it plays! When the clutch grabs the wheels spin but the engine doesn't stall. And the car eventually starts moving. After they have that down, which takes about 1% of the normal learning period, you move onto dry pavement.

In your environment, unless you travel north, I am thinking sandy places with some hard bottom underneath. Maybe asphalt with sand blown over it. And definitely start downhill. You could have them learn the start while already rolling downhill.

Yeah, you can add the auto, and eventually that will be all there is, but I would think you would want your kids to have the latitude. That said, sorry for hijacking an interesting thread. Good luck

That's how they teach people how to ride a motorcycle too, at least in the MSF class.
Granted I always wanted to learn, so I figured it out in my head before trying it.

I learned how to drive a manual on my 914, I actually like to drive my 914 and 356 more than a new manual...I guess it's because I'm used to them.

when teaching my younger son i found my presence in the truck, my old international pu, added to the stress. every time he killed it he looked over at me and said "i'm sorry". "feel the clutch son". he was more worried about hurting the truck, me getting upset, and not focusing on the task. agreed on the 'don't touch the gas for now'. went to a mall early in the am. climbed out and told him don't worry about the truck you won't hurt it. he had it pretty well mastered in a half hour.

I sat through 5 left turn arrows with my daughter while learning in my audi. The cars behind weren't too happy. She finally made it then pulled over and got out and refused to drive. I drove one block pulled over got out and made her finish the trip home. That was 14 years ago and she still drives a clutch and I think is over the trauma I caused.

if your son has you in the passenger seat of your freshly restored car, he can't focus on learning.

My Uncle taught me to use a clutch on a motorcycle at age 10. Tom was a big guy and he was behind me straddling the motorcycle while I tried to ride it. I stalled it on the first try, and he said to give it some gas before I let the clutch out. So I twisted the grip and dumped the clutch. The motorcycle went out from under me and kept going. I fell off and we ran for his back door when the motorcycle hit one of his bee hives. The cloud of bees hit the back door seconds after we got inside. Later, after I pulled all the stingers out of the seat, he helped me to master the clutch.

My 16 year old sister was a different story. That same fall, my father taught her to drive a standard in his 65 Chevy Nova with a straight six and a three on the tree. I was in the back seat and spent the better part of 30 minutes with my head bouncing like a bobble head doll. When she finally figured out how to get it started, I heard my father cuss for the first time in my life. My sister just mashed the gas in 1st. With the engine screaming at redline, my father yells "SHIFT, GODDAMMIT SHIFT!" My sister says "Oh" and upshifts to second.

Her first car was a 1969 Impala with an automatic. She can drive a standard now, but she does not see the point in them.

I never told my dad that before he tried to teach my sister how to drive a manual trans, I had taken his Nova out and driven it around the block when no one else was home. I had no problems with the clutch. And before y'all make comments, yes I had a hard time reaching the pedals.

I learned stick by driving the shop truck around back in high school when I was working construction.

Then did not touch it for nearly a decade until I got into restoring old armored cars.

Did you know that if you spool up the engine and dump the clutch on a 1942 bren carrier on a gravel road it will stand up on its treads and shoot HUGE roostertails of gravel out the back? Surprised the heck out of me too. And the guys sitting in back. Especially them. That was one of the easiest shifting vehicles I have ever driven. Not a lot of power, tons of torque and gearing. No gas was needed for a second gear start, and first was never used unless you had to stop on some sort of a steep hill.

The 914 is not that hard a car to get going, and the stock clutch on a slightly warmed over engine I've found to be very forgiving. My WRX is harder to drive smooth then the 914. And the shifter pattern on the WRX is all wrong. WTF!?

Get out of the car and let your son figure it out. He knows what to do, you are probably stressing him the heck out.

Zach

Do I recall VW had an "automatic" bug? If so, I wonder if something like that (perhaps flipped) could work?

Not a bad idea. It would have to be a tail shifter. IIRC it was still kind of a manual with a vacuum canister operated clutch deal. You'd need the trans, vacuum canister deal, shift lever (has a button under knob to operate canister),pedal cluster (has a weird twin armed brake pedal that operated canister) and whatever clutch or converter thing it had.

In looking closer at it I don't think you need the brake pedal. There is other stuff on the list I missed too.

VW called it the "automatic stick shift". Same technology as the Porsche sportomatic, and it works exactly the same. But it is not a full auto trans. It is just a 901 with a torque converter and a vacuum operated clutch.

If you want one, get a sporto from a 911, and flip the ring and pinion. To use a factory 914 sportomatic tail housing you would have to find one, which is not easy.

Just remember not to rest your hand on the gear lever when driving down the road. That's what disengages the clutch when you shift gears.


Frankly, if you want an auto, the Audi trans is a better bet.

type 3's and busses had fully autos. Don't know how it could be adapted though, I'm not sure you can flip the ring and pinion on those.

Yeah,

It can be tricky. Taught my twin daughters to drive a stick - on my VR-4. They both got it quickly, but one (with a heavy foot) almost put us off the road into tree tops in the GA mountains!

YIKES.

different approach http://www.subarugears.com/