Someone sent me an email asking about the DTM for the 914, so I figured I'd make a post..

I have the first version of it finished, and ready to be installed on my newly reconfigured, hybrid headed 2316 for my 914.

This first version is very plain and utilizes no internal cooler at all. I am starting with this shroud to get some baseline numbers to test against when we start moving locations for the stock cooler to be located. I have 4 different locations for the stock cooler planned, but two of them create some funky routing of the airhose thats just not pretty to look at at all. I do think that one of these will work exceptionally though so I plan on trying it anyway.

One thing I have had made up for the DM for this particular application is a venturi ring that will speed the air up into the fan inlet. This should both quiet the fan down as well as increase the air charge into the fan making the shroud do its job even better.

The new 2316 should be on the dyno next week if assembly goes well. I am going to do most of this development in my 914 simply because I cannot spare dyno time because of all the other stuff going on right now.

I am still shooting for a summer release date for the 914 version, how realistic that is- we'll have to wait and see...

I have many more important things going on at the present! You gys are really gonna like this!

Any Pics?

Not yet..
At this point pics would just stir confusion...

I need to wait till I have some data before that happens.... At this point the looks deceive whats inside the shroud...

I want to have both versions that I plan on offeringt atleast through some sort of testing before I reveal the design..

This isn't looking good guys...

I had enough interest in this a couple of months ago to take the time to start developing it...

Now all that interest is just fallen off the face of the earth.....

I sent emails to those on my list with some information and only got one back so far out of 18.

Looks like this prototype may be the only one thats ever made. I can't spend big bucks on the molds if people are gonna be tire kickers and not follow through with their obligation to me.

It almost pisses me off.

Maybe there was something wrong with the e-mails sent out. I was on the list and never got an e-mail.

I'll resend them... BUT I called two of those on the list and they told me that they were not interested any more....

Oh well.

Jake, try not be mad.

I have looked at hundreds of tile jobs over the years for prospective clients.
I spend 1-2 hours with each one depending on the job.

I keep busy, but think of the lost time that I can never recover. ($30k?)Most of the clients who don't go with me don't call back either.

For the job I get, it's worth it.

Make the product available now, if only for you.
Later they will sell.

KT

Hey Jake how about putting a whistle on the venturi ring so you can hear how much air is getting sucked in with the 2316 LOL

Whistle tips, WOOO WOOOO

Jake your email system must need some work because I have not recieved anything from you. It is me that keeps bugging you on your forum to get going with the project. I will buy the first one and install it and bring it to the 2005 wwc to show it to everyone. It is hard to sell anything if it is only an idea. make it tangable and if it works you will sell a s--- pot of them to the 914 group.

Bernie

Okay guys I will resend all the emails..

The only thing that got on my nerves is that I had already expressed the fact that developing this for an unknowing 914 market was too rsiky for me to attempt. Making one of these molds cost as much as a new car!

The following was there for me to sell enough to atleast warrant spending the money on the mold- then it seemed to disappear.
Thats happened to me before, and thats why I don't get money up front because then guys want a damn refund if it takes longer than I anticipate.

Don't ever get in this business............ Trust me.

Jake a couple of questions if you don't mind

Is the DTM designed to be used instead of Nickies for better cooling for cylinders in the 94/96mm range?

Would the DTM be too efficient with Nickies?

If the DTM cools as well as it is supposed to be, it seems that it could be a very cost effective alternative to Nickies??? Is Charles nervous??

Good questions, I was wondering if this would be a perfect cooling system for that 2316 on the street/track...w/o having to go nickies. Let us know. I'm in for the system regardless, just need to know how many more pennies to save for the motor it's going on

The DTM is never a replacement for Nickies, nor are the Nickies a replacement for a DTM.

With Nickies the engine has the capability of cooling better because less heat is generated due to friction reduction as well as the ability of the Aluminum to radiate the heat into the cooling air stream faster.

This means that Nickies make the engine run cooler. Due to this it opens up avenues for guys like me to push the envelope and get more from an engine and do so much safer.

Now, While the Nickies run cooler and allow more mods to be made to the engine they do not "Self cool".. This means you still need even airflow to create even running temperatures with the needed pressure to do the job. Thats where the DTM comes into play with its big advantage. It can keep the head temps more even, resulting in less expansion over the entire engine and that helps with power, reliability and longevity.

Long story short the engine can never be over equipped in the cooling department. More cooling means you can hold higher loads for longer durations of time and not heat soak the components. This allows the use of max HP with no adverse effects for much longer periods of time.

I have a customer with Nickies and a DTM on his 201BHP MassIVe Super Hero and he can drive 5 hours sustained at 85-90 MPH with head temps that barely break 300 degrees- In fact that has only happened once in the two years he has had the engine. Its a full time daily driver.

See it here http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/custome...llon/index.html
Its a beetle!

Basically with the use of a DTM AND Nickies you can get much more from your engine in general. I have noted that the benefits of the DTM are astounding with Nickies, but at the same time the cast iron equipped engines have an equal benefit because they need ALL the help they can get!

Also, I forgot to add that on Kevin Groots E Production engine we are running both Nickies and a DTM :-)

Thats a 200HP / 2.0

If it don't make that I have to start over...

Pardon the ignorance but... what's a DTM???

<----- newbie

Down the middle cooling system

Read plenty here
www.massivetype4.com
That site is 100% DTM.

Jake-

Dunno if I am on that e-mail list, but add me to it!

type11969@gmail.com

(the address that may have been on it has expired)

-Chris

Okay...

All interested please send an email to productdevelopment@aircooledtechnology.com

I will reply and also add you to the list!

I re-sent emails to all on my old list from that new account dedicated just to projects like this..

got mine and replied

Bernie

I DID get the mail from Jake and I have been on the list for at least a couple of months.

I mailed a positive reponse back to Jake at the following mail adress:
Mad Scientist [productdevelopment@aircooledtechnology.com]

Hre is a copy of Jakes letter to me.... (see below)

From: Mad Scientist [mailto:productdevelopment@aircooledtechnology.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:43 PM


Subject: MassIVe DTM in 914 flavor
Importance: High

Okay guys..

Things are getting underway with the DTM development now that the test engine is almost finished and my 914 is all upgraded suspension wise.

Please reply to this address when you receive this email.

Look for more info very soon! I should have a finished product sometime late spring/ early summer!

Jake Raby

The Mad Scientist


So there ya are... If ya want on the list... send this back to him.. I did.
And thanks Jake..!!!!!
I would send ya the money right now if you would take it.....

Regards,
Clayton

Thanks Clayton...

So out of you guys that want the system, how many will be running fully external oiling systems?? I plan on making two versions of 914 systems, one with the cooler cavity and one without..

I was planning on using the system with the oil cooler inside of the DTM. I currently run a suplemental cooler behind the passenger side of the engine. If I could run one inside the DTM that'd be great!

I have a combo of both stock and one in the trunk with fan but will change to whatever you deem best.

Bernie

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 19 2005, 06:12 PM)

So out of you guys that want the system, how many will be running fully external oiling systems?? I plan on making two versions of 914 systems, one with the cooler cavity and one without..

Uh, not trying to be difficult, but could you clarify?

Cooling cavity = accomodation for stock T4 cooler
Fully external = no accomdation for stock T4 cooler, but we can put a cooler the extra space freed up in front of the motor w/whatever plenum we choose?

The answer to stock location or remote, really depends on Jake.. And the end result of his testing both systems.

If both stlyes of DTM cool the engine and the oil on a built 2.5 litre 4banger. I would opt for stock location.

Conversely, if the stock cooler has a negative effect on the cylinder cooling. I would opt for a remote cooled DTM.

I am running a a cast iron cylindr 2.5 litre stroker motor. I can use all of the cooling I can get.

Stock location plus a remote is my best case scenario.. That way I can use it on differant engine combos.

It is really up to the MAD Scientist on which one will work for my application..!!!!!

Your call Jake... Whatcha think???
Clayton

Oh yeah, I almost forgot....

Jake, you wanna trade a scoped 30.06 I accidently bought for Mueller in exchange for some ceramic lifters?

Maybe throw in a Colt Anaconda (3 shots only from the factory) with a serial number of PB001. (Thats the first one ever made of that particular style.) (Is kinda kewl)
for a start on the DTM?

Possibly my first born for a new cam combo to go with those lifters?

Horse trading is my specialty.........

Let me know if ya need any toys.. I'm good that way.....

And Mueller... Where ya want me to send that 10/22???
Answer my mails bro.. it's here...!!!!!!

Clayton

AKA: Twystd1

okay, looks like I will definately be doing both versions of the shroud, with internal and external cooler provisions.

I am up for some trading for things that make noise.....

The Anaconda sounds inviting..... Email me with what else you might have for swapping..... The 30-06 is my favorite caliber for the back 40!

I love to horse trade as well, but sometimes the book keeper finds out and wants to beat my ass!

Jake,
I will get pictures next weekend (10 days from now) of a few toys that I would will be willing to trade with ya and send em too your mail address.............

And yeah.. you will like the Anaconda.... It's yours.......

We will figure something out....

Tell the bookeeper to stay the hell out of the gun trading biz... It's for crazy people only....

Twystd1

clayton you have an email

sent my reply...

i'm a-bit slow