Just bought a 2.7 long block. Is this the right ticket for induction. I love the way webers look, but this has got to be easier, eh?

CIS

PS. Scott, it's getting tough to keep up with you

dont you need to cut a recess to fit CIS on a teener?

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 18 2005, 01:39 PM)

dont you need to cut a recess to fit CIS on a teener?

Nope, just turn the fuel dist. around and move the engine lid latch to the other side. Requires a little welding, but worth it.

Also, keep that CIS on it if you can. That is the later style with cold air bypass on it. No hand throttle to deal with. Turn key and start. Nice, simple system. Don't waste money on carbs. The won't produce much more hp and you will loose a ton of ecomomy.

Of course, you'll need to remove the rain tray. It's tight, but it will fit. Didn't need to touch the fuel distributor on mine, but it was a very very early setup (73.5 911T). The engine latch will have to be moved or simply removed altogether. I went with a pair of hood pins instead.

Fit an anti-backfire flapper if one hasn't been fitted already...

Sounds like you guys know what you're doing. Please visit the link and tell me if you think I should buy this.

PS AAron. I plan to build an 1100# tube frame RSK replica. OK, just in my dreams, but maybe someday

Well, the one I am looking at already has all that stuff with it Howard. I think it looks like a nice clean setup and the carbs will cost you a lot more money to boot. The CIS I think would be the way to go.

And what do you mean you are having a hard time keeping up with me?

QUOTE (skline @ Jan 18 2005, 03:37 PM)

Well, the one I am looking at already has all that stuff with it Howard. I think it looks like a nice clean setup and the carbs will cost you a lot more money to boot. The CIS I think would be the way to go. And what do you mean you are having a hard time keeping up with me?

he gets a six you get a bigger six.....
you get brittney....he gets bigger trailer trash

I saw a picture of a 2.7 with CIS installed in a 914 without the engine hatch being moved. It looked like they ground the plastic "fins" on whatever they call that thing on top and the engine lid/hatch then cleared. Can't remember where I saw this pic but it was either here or on the bird board (thought it was somebody who worked at Pelican).

Jim

QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 18 2005, 02:32 PM)

Sounds like you guys know what you're doing. Please visit the link and tell me if you think I should buy this. PS AAron. I plan to build an 1100# tube frame RSK replica. OK, just in my dreams, but maybe someday

Looks nice. The bit about the 911S part making "more power" is BS, but that's harmless. Ask the guy if this includes a fuel pump. One thing about CIS is it requires VERY high fuel pressure (100psi), so it requires a hefty pump. Most systems also have a fuel accumulator, which holds some pressure even with the system shut off. No accumulator, and you have to let the pump run some before trying to fire it up. I can't remember what a pump runs by itself, but it's not cheap. $300-400? You could probably use a junkyard pump from a CIS equipped VW for lots less than a new part.

I see he's already installed the anti-backfire flapper, which is a plus.

I found the picture (sorry I can't give credit to the owner)...but here it is without the latch having to be moved:

QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 18 2005, 03:32 PM)

Sounds like you guys know what you're doing. Please visit the link and tell me if you think I should buy this. PS AAron. I plan to build an 1100# tube frame RSK replica. OK, just in my dreams, but maybe someday

I think you should mount it on the mini-bike

If you take a stock CIS engine and replace the CIS with carbs, you will increase the throttle response and the cool noise, but the HP won't go up that much.
That's because the CIS cams are relatively mild and the pistons are designed for the CIS.
If you take that same engine and put higher compression domed pistons with "S" cams, the engine will really come to life and be a screamer, but carbs alone won't get you there.
Carbs will also get you finicky cold starting and almost constant tinkering in many cases. Some folks can avoid this but many can't.
Once you get the CIS working correctly you don't even have to think about it. Now getting a bad CIS system working right is another story.........

Here is how the PO installed a 3.0 with CIS in my car. It was a tight fit.

The latch was moved but the cable kept binding or breaking, so I put on hood pins.

Close up of the moved latch.

Junk in the trunk.
I want to figure out a way to relocate some of this stuff so I can carry the targa top back here.

One last shot from another angle. I hope this helps.

Howard,
the fuel distributor is for a 3.2 so it is bigger. I don't know if this is a problem if it is on a smaller engine, but I know that if you put a 2.7 distributor on a 3.X it will suck power (so I have been told).

I will be running mine CIS I will not be cutting.

John,
what is the thing in your trunk? Is it the accumulator?

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Jan 18 2005, 06:00 PM)

Junk in the trunk. I want to figure out a way to relocate some of this stuff so I can carry the targa top back here.

John,

I don't think a top will go back in that trunk. The middle of the trunk firewall has been cut and moved rearward. I think that mod will preclude the fitting of a top.

QUOTE (914RS @ Jan 18 2005, 05:22 PM)

I don't think a top will go back in that trunk.  The middle of the trunk firewall has been cut and moved rearward.  I think that mod will preclude the fitting of a top.

Yeah, I know that is a big part of the problem. I am thinking if I can figure out a way to hold the top at an angle, and maybe even trim a bit off the back of the Targa - it just might work. I need to pick up a spare ratty top to start and on before I try it on my nice one.

The advantage to cutting the firewall is for better access to the back of the engine. Mine came cut out when it bought it, I have an extra rear trunk shelve that I could always weld back in if I ever wished to remove the turbo. Motor mounts will determine the fit without cutting the trunk, I have the stock 6 firewall mount which puts my engine up pretty high in the back and very tight on the engine lid and trunk, I dont think this is a problem with the aftermarket mounts.

I hope you understand I was referancing the height of the stock cis boot which I did have to shave the fins off of, not the turbo stuff.

You can also see the edge of the engine lid that had to be ground down

Not sure what engine mount was used there, but it is NOT necessary to cut or alter the trunk to fit these engines. My 2.4 fit with the trunk unaltered (no pics, haven't owned the car in 6 years). The engine mount used there sits the engine up too high.

What you see is an engine on a Stock 914 6 mount. 79 3.0 sc cis engine

I do think it will squish in there without cutting the trunk but the engine lid will still need to be ground down as well as the cis boot fins. Bummer if you needed to get to something in the back of the engine though.

What is on the back of the engine that you would need to access?

Oil pressure sender, thermostat, coldstart valve, oil breather hose, theres a lot of crap back there ive have to deal with.

OIC

Stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyhow...(since I have a line on a dirt cheap 2.7)...can the fuel injection system and electronics from a 3.2 be bolted onto a 2.7 (since I've been told that clears everything just fun)?

Motronic installed instead of CIS has been done before (on a 3 liter, should be similar to a 2.7). I don't know all the details but there's been plenty of posts on it on the bird 911 board.
I think Noah Pollak did it to his car, there might even be a tech article on it.

Howie....CIS is nice when it runs...but is a PITA to trouble shoot AND expensive. By the time you get around to installing it, the seller will be long gone or his repsonse wouild be....what? I sold that X years ago....and you say the accumuilator is bad? Tuffshitsky....

If this is going in an RSK or a Spyder replica...do the carbs. It will look too busy with the FI.

Sammy was right about the cams...add 20/21s or 964 cams....wooo hoooo....

It's an easy job with the state of the engine the way it is now....