I remember sometime in the fall there was discussion about having a competition amongst us 914 clubbers to keep track of our times and have somekind of unofficial award. Well maybe not anything physical just bragging rights
I searched 13 pages and couldn't find it!!!!

So again what do we want to keep track of
-PAX placement? (crap I run SM-2)
-Distance in seconds behind TTOD
-Bonus points for TTOD
-Points for top finisher in class

The more you run the more points you get. That way I have a shot.

I believe it was a Brad post last year and we were also considering letting in Boxsters as a sort of mid-engine match-up meylee.

he was going to set up a challenge at Marina, CA I think

Don't think it matters who sets it up or who runs it. I don't have the computer smarts to set this sort of thing up.
Do you think it should be somewhere here (one more area) that racers can post results. Should there be the ability to post the results from thier area club as proof????

Yes, I remember.

Two items being dicussed here.

One, is the virtual a/x. Where everyone can post ther individual times and a way to compare times would be devised so we are all competing somehow. ( fantasy a/x ? )

two, is the all 914 a/x at Marina ,Ca with only 914's running the course for the day.
I don't see this happening, as the local PCA a/x calendar is pretty well established.

KT

Well I started with the thought of Virtual Autocross.
Another factor is equalizing the cars. Was it last week that some of us put our cars in the GGR class you car site? Maybe that can be a handicap.
my car was AX-5 865 points. IDUNNO

i know brad was talking with ggr about the all914 AX -- if this happens, i assume that it won't be on it's original date (sometime in march)

however, i don't see why the fantasy 914cup AX series can't happen. maybe not with sponsors and trophies and shit, but at least we could set up a trial run for '05.

equalizing the cars is the easier part -- adjusting times based on different data ranges would be the hardest. my thought was to run 3 classes ala WCC 04 (to keep things simple) and base a competitor's times as ratio to the TTOD.

e.g., if the TTOD is 40 seconds, and my best time is 50 sec, than my score for that AX is 80 out of 100 possible points. (40/50 = .8 x 100 =80). if i get TTOD, i get a full 100 points. we take, e.g. the best out of 6 or 8 events to determine class winners.

this disadvantages larger, more competitive regions. which may be okay -- OR we could compensate by throwing in a little coefficient based on how many cars run that day. but, then again, there are a milllion little coefficients that one could throw in to statistically even things out. for sake of elegance, i think this should be avoided.

nothing short of an all 914club AX will determine a true 'pecking order' -- a fantasy cup would necessarily be a competition primarily with oneself, and with ones particular AX group.

i'd be happy to help make the rules, classes, and run the spreadsheet.

QUOTE

e.g., if the TTOD is 40 seconds, and my best time is 50 sec, than my score for that AX is 80 out of 100 possible points. (40/50 = .8 x 100 =80). if i get TTOD, i get a full 100 points. we take, e.g. the best out of 6 or 8 events to determine class winners.

That's excellent. Simple and it works.

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 21 2005, 09:09 AM)

this disadvantages larger, more competitive regions

we can eliminate this by using both, the TTOD AND the ranks of the 914s that ran.

say, you have 5th overall, but are the highest ranking 914.

you'd get 80 out of 100 for 5th and 100 for best 914 making 180 out of 200 possible ...

making sense here?
Andy

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jan 21 2005, 12:18 PM)

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 21 2005, 09:09 AM) this disadvantages larger, more competitive regions we can eliminate this by using both, the TTOD AND the ranks of the 914s that ran. say, you have 5th overall, but are the highest ranking 914. you'd get 80 out of 100 for 5th and 100 for best 914 making 180 out of 200 possible ... making sense here? Andy

I love that. I'm often the only 914 to show up.

QUOTE (Paul Heery @ Jan 21 2005, 09:21 AM)

QUOTE we can eliminate this by using both, the TTOD AND the ranks of the 914s that ran. say, you have 5th overall, but are the highest ranking 914. you'd get 80 out of 100 for 5th and 100 for best 914 making 180 out of 200 possible ... making sense here?  Andy I love that. I'm often the only 914 to show up.

andy, that would work pretty well, actually -- although if we keep things open for the guys who run in SCCA, we have to keep in mind that they're often the only 914 competing -- this disadvantages you and i in a region like GGR-PCA!!

i do think we should keep things relatively simple and elegant, but adding a few more factors in -- if sufficiently discrete as your suggestion is (at least for an all pca series) -- makes sense.

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 21 2005, 09:25 AM)

this disadvantages you and i in a region like GGR-PCA!!

yeah, i guess not everywhere in the country do we have 20 914s show up for an AX ...

Andy

914's are so rare here I had to tell some of the STS crowd what the car was.
Nathan's original rules work for me.
So run this for a trial.

Last Sunday 51 st place PAX out of 130 drivers. with a PAX time of 48.900

or class results of 57.395 which is 3.93 seconds from TTOD

Someone else post your stuff and see if it works.

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jan 21 2005, 01:28 PM)

914's are so rare here I had to tell some of the STS crowd what the car was. Nathan's original rules work for me. So run this for a trial. Last Sunday 51 st place PAX out of 130 drivers. with a PAX time of 48.900 or class results of 57.395 which is 3.93 seconds from TTOD Someone else post your stuff and see if it works.

What were the raw TTOD and your raw fastest time?

Never mind, I figured it out based on the SM2 PAX.

So:

TTOD (raw)= 53.845
Your best (raw)= 57.395

53.845/57.395=0.931527137

100*0.931527137= 93 points

From one of my events last year:

TTOD (raw)= 37.286
My best (raw)= 41.615

37.286/41.615=0.895975009

100*0.895975009= 89.5975009 points

Damn, you're beating me.

My last:

ttod 32.130
my best 34.485

93 points

KT

exactly. i like how there's already competition forming!

each competitor would be responsible for submitting their fastest time of the day and the TTOD to me -- not their final points score (got to keep some degree of check!). i'll throw it in the spreadsheet, which will round the ratio*100 to the nearest integer. the series standings would be based on (e.g.) the best of 6-to-8 (n)AX's. run as many AX's as you want in the season -- we'd take the best n-number of scores.

the only down side of this that i can see is that everyone's points are going to be pretty high -- it's not likely that there will be a score of 27 or 36 out of 100. most peoples points will range from 75-100 per event. THUS, making for some very close scores at the end of the series. but i've worked it out hypothetically, and the chances of there being a tie are sufficiently low that it doesn't warrant multiplying the ratio by 1000 and rounding to that integer.

gotta run to my office hours now, but if no students show up (or at least no hot girls)*, i'll start a new thread to gauge "official" interest.





*attn stanford admins: that was a joke. thank you.

See this is going to be fun!!!
Especially cause I'm leading the points
Well at least for the moment.

So howz this competition thing for motivating you to get your car of Jack stands. I think I'm just going to go drive my car Right now!!!! 70 degrees and sunny so it will be a topless day

I think that it may be worthwhile to extend it out to two decimal places. We only have three example scores so far and Joe and Trekkor are tied.

QUOTE (Paul Heery @ Jan 21 2005, 12:54 PM)

I think that it may be worthwhile to extend it out to two decimal places. We only have three example scores so far and Joe and Trekkor are tied.

yeah, you're probably right. although over the entire season a tie would be pretty rare -- in that case we'd definitely go to the nth-decimal point to break a tie.

What about regions that don't offer many ax events? They would be at a big disadvantage for points right?

Keep the points as integers and then if there's a tie at the end you can calculate the n-th decimal to decide the winner. Integers are much better to look at and mid "season" it's okay for people to look tied.

I'm willing to construct a PHP application to handle all of this once my two other PHP projects are done. That way people could insert their information themselves and see the rankings update live. It would also highlight people who are climbing the ranks fast. Lots of options for neat-o little features here.

QUOTE (kermit @ Jan 21 2005, 02:02 PM)

What about regions that don't offer many ax events? They would be at a big disadvantage for points right?

yes, they would be. the series would be based off points added up from your best 6 or 7 or 8 AX's. i think 8 is asking a bit too much -- i prefer 6 (surely everyone can make 6 AX's in a year). but you can submit as many times as you want -- clearly, the more AX's you compete in, the better off you'd do.

however, there is no way to level the playing field entirely -- every one should know that off the bat. competitors in more competitive regions will have a tougher time than competitors in less competitive regions.

mark -- i'm with you exactly about the integers. a php app would rock!!! absent that, i would be willing to simply update a thread with the ongoing results....


i'm working on a post formalizing proposed rules, classes, and procedures -- i'll post this tonight hopefully to solicit everyone's feedback.

Yay! I'm glad we're making this happen. Thank Nathan.

Yup this is a good thing. So far doesn't cost nothing but some time to enter data.

Nathan's doing a great job. Hey this is like work I think some shit up and some smart guy makes it work.

I'm locking this thread since the "official" thread has started.

New thread is here.