Heelo again dudes and dudettes.

Been wondering--are thar any better pistons for the 90's??

I know about boring out to 90.5 and rebushing the rods and such---but ...is this all there is???

OK DUCKING for cover now under my newly blasted teener

less than 2 weeks!

You ask and you shall receive :-)

The best way to do it is run a crank with a TI rod journal, and use an H beam TI rod.. Longer lighter and stronger and it all works perfectly..

I could always design a 90.5 JE piston for you, but for that kind of money, you'd probably be better off building it larger.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

I think those answers are really: no. Other than making a good sealing turbo, no real reason to stick with the 90mm bore, anyway.

I have a 24mm pinned 90mm piston design, but its a JE and cost 800 bucks a set....

Actually I am going to try a 90mm bored, 82mm stroked engine with a set of 1.7 Q heads as a base.

I am looking for ultra port velocity and ultimate cylinder filling with a dose of compression.

I think I can make 150 torque filled ponies with it with the right cam... I am profiling one for it over the weekend...

Oooh, torque! Sounds like fun.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 21 2005, 04:52 PM)

I have a 24mm pinned 90mm piston design, but its a JE and cost 800 bucks a set.... Actually I am going to try a 90mm bored, 82mm stroked engine with a set of 1.7 Q heads as a base. I am looking for ultra port velocity and ultimate cylinder filling with a dose of compression. I think I can make 150 torque filled ponies with it with the right cam... I am profiling one for it over the weekend...

!!

So, 90x82 is, uhh, (carry the two) about 2085cc, or a tad bigger than a 96x71 2056, which uses off the shelf parts. Yet I've never seen a 2056 make more than 120hp or thereabouts w/o an unstreetable cam. I've seen non-Type 4s make 150hp out of 2 liters with a streetable cam, though (twincam Alfa, for example).

Stroke really makes that much difference?

OK, cruising the wiseco website looking for pistons I can drop into my 90 cylinders--turns out they make a piston for the toyota celica--older style which is 90mm with a 24mm pin and about a 1/16 shade high on compression height.

Come in dished or crowned---specs don't give a weight--I called up my former boss at a garage who specializes in foreign--he says somewhere around 295 grams--but not sure--he has not done one for a long time--turns out these engines are very popular for a drag racing class----makes one wonder does it not???

I have much experience with wiseco--albeit on two strokes--but hey--those darned things are bullitproof.

Then I see on CB's site they are offering wiseco slipper skirt pistons for the 94mm barrels, I think... I have had a few --I would have to recheck--but so can you--I think the weight was less than 300 grams..........I saw them on the wiseco site as well--they also make the 101.5 mm pistons for the Jaycee barrels...with a 90mm crank!!! Wow, that is a BIG crank--even for a T1!!

Wow Jake--so J&E DOES make these--go wonder, cause about an hour ago I filled out the custom sheet for a price---small world?? ehh.
Honestly--800 clams for something like what I am looking for is not all bad--considering they do not get the production run that the OTHER car makers have...I will be eagerly waiting to hear how your new combo works out---would you be able to extropolate the power values into the same combo as if it had a 66mm crank-( what you have seen in the past, I am sure you have done this)-cause that is what I and prolly many, many people are using--/ power gain / paycheck can handle it, etc.....You could be onto a pretty good money maker, And a big Thank You for answering past questions and freely giving tips and advice, it has helped me tremendously--

Guys, I am just trying to get the most bang for my buck here, military pay is what it is--that is why I am always theorizing on doing something to improve with the lowest cash outlay--and I think I have my tranny problem solved!!

Charles-Thank you for your offer, Alas, I am looking for straight up 90's--I want to keep all the cylinder meat I can for my motor--I am going turbo--and those cima's, while very good they are--I just do not want to rebush--or bore--or both. Weird how cima just passed right on bye the 90's and went 90.5???? WTF????

Size don't mean a damn thing...

Neither does HP in a street car...

Yes stroke does make a big difference, especially wityh the right rod ratio..

Its all about efficiency.. Plus this combo with the proper headwork should get excellent fuel economy...

If we didn't try to defy conventional wisdom and try odd things this wouldn't be "Aircooled Technology" would it????

Don't deal with JE as an individual- You'll get absolutely no where..

It takes buying power with them to deliver anything on time or a decent price... Plus, I already have them designed with the best rings, pin heights and skirts....

But trust me the best combination for strength and efficiency would entail tossing the stock TIV 2.0 rod journals away, using the TI goodies (soon to be readily available with full support) and the 90.5mm Mahle Type I piston that is extremely strong and forged as well.

As for keeping the 90mm bore-
Chances are that any cylinder you find thats used will probably be too worn for an optimum skirt clearance...

Thats why going .5mm overbore is optimum because you can bore the cylinder to MATCH THE PISTONS....

Skip JE and go right to the people that know what theya re doing. Wiesco is light years ahead of JE. I have held both pistons in my hands and can tell you the quality of the JE is less than that of the Wiesco. Might want to talk with CP as they are all the old JE people that give a shit, so they started their own place.

I have used Wiseco as well... The problem I have had with JEs is the wrist pin bosses ripping out..

But now with the reinforced forgings things have changed and that don't happen....

Wiseco will try more radical designs than JE as a general rule.....

Its kinda hard to hold a part and feel quality... What I judge things from is what they look like after they explode.

I have seen an equal amout of Wisecos in pieces as JE's....

Perhaps I meant quality of features. The Wiescos have better features in my opinion. Yes I have heard good things about the new Forged side relief pistons from JE. Don't know a whole lot about them but my sources tell me they are light and strong.

My thing with Wiesco is they own the forging factory so they control it all. Yes I know JE and Wiesco are owned by the same company, but you would never know it by talking to the people on the phone.

The super squishes are made by Wiesco. I have a set of 96mm JEs that are light but they don't have near the features of a set of Wiescos that I am holding right now.

that is too bad ass!! you got a source that make me a set of 90's like that?? For ..say,,,,100 bucks????

QUOTE (Brett W @ Jan 22 2005, 12:36 AM)

Perhaps I meant quality of features. The Wiescos have better features in my opinion. Yes I have heard good things about the new Forged side relief pistons from JE. Don't know a whole lot about them but my sources tell me they are light and strong. My thing with Wiesco is they own the forging factory so they control it all. Yes I know JE and Wiesco are owned by the same company, but you would never know it by talking to the people on the phone. The super squishes are made by Wiesco. I have a set of 96mm JEs that are light but they don't have near the features of a set of Wiescos that I am holding right now.

Hey Brett, I am going to be in Florence visiting my girl on the weekend of the 11th of Feb--mind ifn I drop by?? For an hour or so?? I come stright up 59 . I am leaving on that thursday night and pullin a red-eye--my girl won't be outta school for a couple of hours when I get there, so I got a little time--if not thats ok man..

Yes, thats a sturutted piston... Just like I'm running in the 3 liter.

The Nascar bubbas throw them away every week..

JE made mine

You can see them in the bottom center picture of this page.

http://www.lnengineering.com/pistons.htm

Thats a 105.07mm, Nascar spec..

JE wikll make anything you want as long as you design it. They have sent us some IRL pistons to look at and get some ideas from and they are absolutely wild.

The new piston that Len and I are trying defy everything that anyone has ever said about piston design, biut coupled with the chamber work we are doing in conjunction with it and the camshaft being ran the results should be impressive.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I know what we have been able to get JE to work with us on... Plus they don't ask questions- they listen and do whatever you want.

BTW, my strutted 105.07mm piston is 5 grams lighter than the lightest 96mm I have ever seen Wrist pins are DLC coated Ti and I don't have a small end rod bushing at all :-)

But this engine is nothing but a virtual test anyway...

BTW, the strutted pistons will be on my shelf in 2 different bore sizes... Point, click, Cha Ching and see ya later!

yea, those are definitely good for skirt loading--don't gotta be an engineer to see that--I would like to have just one--to put in a glass case with a soft light and stare at it...hell, that would be better than watching porn while doin the nasty

Yeah no sweat, give me a heads up a little closer to the day.

cool man!! Will do!