For my six conversion which will be 90% street, 10% driver's ed car. Not an autocross monster.

Rear Adjustable Perch Bilstein Sport Shocks
Mueller's needle bearing kit
No rear swaybar
Springs???

Front Bilstein Sport Shocks
23mm solid torsion bar
23mm adjustable Smart Racing Swaybar
Front needle Bearing kit

Car will be lowered slightly (I may have the spindles adjusted in the front).

What rate springs for the rear? 175 lb, 200 lb? or more?

I want a comfy ride but I want it to handle on the streets too.

As a reference point I have:

21mm front t-bars
22mm AR bar, front only
needle brgs
Tarret strut moounts
180 rears
Plastic rear bushings
Bilstein sports
Hoosiers

It rides like an empty dump truck...well, maybe not that good.

"It rides like an empty dump truck"

I'm not sure what that analogy is supposed to mean... it rides high in the rear?

It rides crappy?

So JP... any recommendations based upon what I have?

22mm Tbars
22mm FS
poly bushings
Koni's in front
Bilsteins in back
180's springs in back
David Hunt drove it and got out and said"damn that is stiff"
Yup, you can't push any of the fenders down, there are nearly solid. BUT on the road its fine, carves turns like its on rails, and it Autox's just fine.
If you are building a GT lookalike start somewhere in this ballpark otherwise you is just a poser..
Geoff
See if you can drive someones car who has it set up for reference.

You'll be fine with the 175's Karl. I'm pretty sure JP still has the Welt "progressive" rate springs.. the 175's you will use work great with the roller bearing suspension.

I'm pointing more and more people to Koni's for the street. Run around town on full soft and step them up to full hard for a DE or Open Track event. The Bilsteins are a little harsh on the "bump" Rebound is good... I just dont think the valving is optimized for the street on a Bilstein.

B

Brad, are the 180# Welts progressive? I thought the 165# ones were....??

Several people have told me that the rear Bilsteins really need to be revalved to work well for the 914. Actually I've heard the front Bilstein valving isn't optimal either...

Karl -- just curious why you're going so stiff (23 t-bars) for a street car?

Chris,

I *thought* all the Welts where progressive (the way the coils are wound).

I think the Bilstein is a great replacement and works very well... but you can buy better.


B

The thing rattles my eyeballs on everything but the smoothest of roads....and I prolly should go stiffer for AX.

The tires are partially to blame for this.
The wide tires and negative camber also make it follow every groove & rut..... botts dots go pow,pow,pow syncronized with the eyeball judder.
I made the mistake of driving home from an AX with the thin seat pad in place....it like to broke my skinny ass.


It's just my opinion, but I think your 23mm t bars are way too stiff for a comfortable ride.

Stock t bars, 140lb springs & regular Bils were pretty decent on the street.....decent for AX also. Not sexy, but effective.

Looking at my 180lbrs, I'd say they are progressive....as Brad said, from the way they are wound.

I think I mistyped my torsion bar plan. The swaybar is 23mm.

The torsion bars are 21mm or 22mm.

Regards,

Karl

Brad,

You're talking about Koni Yellows?

I've never run them on the street, will they be more comfy (in soft mode) than my kill yer backs?

I'm considering a setup similar to my blue car, Koni yellows with adjustable perches and ??? for springs.
Paragon has some different sizes, 125, 150, 175...I was thinking either 125 or 150's.
Probably keep stock T-bars up front and add a small sway bar.

I have Koni Yellows, and I think the ride is fine. Yea, its stiff, but it is not jarring stiff, like KYB's. I have the 22mm torsion bars, 22mmSway, and the 180 progressive springs. Ride is stiff, yea, but it is fine by me. Im young, I can handle it :finger2:

I remember that the 180's have tighter coils at one end.

Hey im just liking the fact that someone besides me is asking about rear spring rates

I have #450 fronts, and #350 rears.. then again Im still learning how to set my 914 up..

It feels right to me.

Oh yea my 914 is 100% track

Talking about shocks, you guys seen the article in Excellence where they were testing a variety of shocks in a taildragger? Pretty interesting article: it points you towards these custom adjustable shocks with remote reservoirs that will be available "real soon now" from SmartRacing. The kicker was that they'd be around $600 or $800 a pair. I thought it was pretty interesting in that they compared lap times and driving impressions across differing shocks. Amazing how much difference the shock can make (in skilled hands).

Have fun,
Kevin

Kevin, right you are. If you can keep the tire contact patch square on the road 100% of the time, you got the game beat. The tire itself acts like a spring and when that particular sprinis up or down, the contact patch is distorted. The shocks, springs and tire pressures all have to be in concert with one another to keep the tire on the ground. It's easy to talk about, harder to do. The NASCAR boys probably know the most about this since they have so many different turning radiuses (radi?) and banking angles to content with. They all have plenty of hp, it's the setup that wins.

Just a note--the effective spring rate of a torsion bar goes up with the fourth power of the diameter. So the difference between 21mm and 22mm is 20%, not an insignificant amount.

--DD

Thought I'd use this thread to report an update on my suspension journey. After putting 400# springs on the rear of my car several months ago it was a handfull. I put a 23mm Smart racing bar on front and used the last 3 track days to slowly move it firmer. It's a little less than half way on the adjustment bar and the car finally is hooking up and bringing a smile back. Also I'm running more air in the Hoosier's and that seems to be helping. Here's my setup:
Front: Koni Ajustable Sport inserts set at full firm, 22mm hollow torsion bars, 23mm Smart sway bar set about mid point.
Rear: Bilsteins with adjustable spring perchs, 400# Hypercoil springs 10" long, 16mm Welt sway bar set at full soft.

are you running an LSD?
Are you picking up a rear wheel if not?

Yes I have a ZF LSD set at 80%. No wheels are being picked up. In fact the guy that does most of the work on my car says it's real flat coming through the skid pad turn at the track we run.