on german TV there was a car magazine today, they tested the current versions from
Porsche Boxster S vs. Mercedes SLK 350

no surprize, the Boxster was the winner

then, they drove both cars on the German Formula 1 Circuit "Hockenheimring"
the Boxster was about 3 sec faster than the SLK
at this point the moderator told, that the lap time was even better than from the 911 Carrera (997)

one more proof that mid engine is better

not only on twisty roads

QUOTE (Sammy @ Jan 23 2005, 03:54 PM)

Color me skeptical.

color you a die hard pinky lifter

boxster s = 914/6 Period.

As a Boxster (986) owner and a 914 owner I have no doubt that on the right road or track the Boxster and 914 have an advantage over certain 911s. I have seen plenty of 914s whip up on 911s at the track and I am sure the Boxster is way more than capable. Throw in one or two large straights or a really savy tail-dragger driver and things change in a hurr but under the right conditions the 911 is defeatable.

Please don't get me wrong, there is nothing "wrong" with a boxster. We were not comparing boxsters to 911s, we were comparing the lap time of a boxster S to the lap time of a new 997 around the ring. I don't want anyone to read more into it than that.
I stated my opinion that based on the track layout of the ring, and the power advantage of the 997, and the refinement of the 997, I seriously doubted the boxster S could lap the ring quicker than the 997.

I do remember reading that the cayanne turbo lapped the ring faster than a boxster S, but i wasn't there and so I regard that as heresay.

Cayenne turbo and Boxster S are about the same in 'Ring lap times. Both are excellent. I agree with Sammy, though, it is highly unlikely either will beat the 996 or 997. Yes, I realize the Cayenne is a heavy SUV.

....a heavy SUV with all wheel drive, adjustable suspension and 450 HP.

QUOTE (RAR @ Jan 24 2005, 06:26 AM)

Cayenne turbo and Boxster S are about the same in 'Ring lap times.

I really wonder if this could be true

unfortunately I didn't test 'em in person , but:
Cayenne Turbo: 450 PS / about 5,000 lbs / 266 km/h top speed (166,25 mph)
Boxster S: 280 PS / about 3,000 lbs / 268 km/h top speed (167,5 mph)

I can't believe, that they need about the same time for this circuit - it's about 2,860 miles long

anyway, never say never

Big ooooops.

I just went back and re-read the beginning of this thread and realized it was talking about the Hockenheimring, like a braindead fool I had the nurburgring stuck in haid.
Sorry about that. Now I have to go and edit all I said in the posts cause it isn't applicable no mo'.

Now about this hockenheimring, is that the F1 track?
(looks like it in the map).
If it is as long as it says at the bottom it can't be the F1 track I am dumfounded and know nothing abut it whatsoever. Looks like I need to google it.

if it is the F1 track is is closer to 4.2 miles long.

QUOTE (Sammy @ Jan 24 2005, 05:06 PM)

I did the google thing: Everything I could find on hockenheimring refers to the track where they run the F1 German GP, it is 4.2 miles long, I don't know what the 4000 plus KM number means.

I wonder what sources you looked?

Here's the official \"Hockenheimring\" Homepage
in the text within the red part, beside the F1 pic, it says, the track is 4.5 kilometer - that's about 2800 miles (as far as I know, 1 mile = 1.6 km)

btw - the above track picture is from this site, too

now, here is more text in english, from the same source (www.hockenheimring.de)

at the part "The New Circuit" (scroll down) they tell the exact length ...

I've seen that in Europe, they occasionally interchange the comma with a period for decimal denotation. So 4,574 km may actually mean 4(point)574 kilometers where as in the US, it means 4thousand, 574 kilometers. Sometimes confusing...

Just saw your Post Dan, thanks for the explanation.
I have to admit that I (along with many of my countrymen) am very naive when it comes to the rest of the world, this comma vs. decimal point thing is good example of that.

o.k. - now I'm sure I know what happend

first: this problem with "point" and "comma"

second: your source isn't up-to-date
from 1964 to 2002 the circuit was about 4.2 miles
then, on demand by the FIA, the circuid got reconstructed
from 2003 on the circuit is about 2.8 miles

There are at least two configurations. The big track there is over 4 km long, that I believe (and would one day love to experience!!!)

The "club" track is considerably shorter, probably not far off the length of Sears Point when they shortened it a couple of years ago for all that construction. At Hockenheim, they use the "club" configuration for a lot of stuff (and I suppose magazine tests).

This setup gives you the front straight (by the grandstands) a right hand turn followed by another right turn fairly quickly (off of the main, F1 track) and then an interesting back section that leads back to more stands and several turns (including an AWESOME lefthand hairpin) before a pair of rights that put you back onto the straight.

Wish I remembered how long that was...

pete

Oh, and 986 Boxster Ss lost very little (if anything) to 996s on backroads so long as power didn't come into play too much. Same seems to be true with 987s and 997s. On track, I think the sheer size of bigger tracks would give too much of an advantage to the 911s.

I suspect the 987S will kill 996s in the canyons. Don't know about on track, but I suspect it would be very interesting....

pete

QUOTE (Pnambic @ Jan 24 2005, 10:13 AM)

they occasionally interchange the comma with a period for decimal denotation.

wrong!

they ALWAYS do that ...

4,567 km means 4.567 km for you amuricans ...

in europe, the decimal point is a decimal comma!

Andy

thanks Andy, I was wondering when you step in to clarify

The european dealers got to test the new 997(S) and 987(S) at the Ascari resort in Spain (do a google on that, you'll like it )
They could easily overtake an 996 4S (the turbo look 4wd 996) with the 987S on the track

QUOTE (horizontally-opposed @ Jan 24 2005, 12:59 PM)

Oh, and 986 Boxster Ss lost very little (if anything) to 996s on backroads so long as power didn't come into play too much. Same seems to be true with 987s and 997s. On track, I think the sheer size of bigger tracks would give too much of an advantage to the 911s. I suspect the 987S will kill 996s in the canyons. Don't know about on track, but I suspect it would be very interesting.... pete

Pete, in my originally post I was agreeing with Sammy, based on the reports in Excellence and others, that the Boxster S is still a bit "less" than the equivalent year "911", be it 996 or 997. That got me to thinking about the latter part of your post; is the newest Boxster S more car than the previous model "911" (996)? Comparisons in future issues?
It is interesting that some still have trouble believing the Cayenne does what it does. Entirely understandable though. I mean "it doesn't look like a sports car". One can't help but marvel at it after reading the reports in reliable publications such as yours and others.
Hmmm, how about a CGT vs 997 vs Cayenne turbo shootout?

QUOTE (RAR @ Jan 25 2005, 09:02 AM)

It is interesting that some still have trouble believing the Cayenne does what it does. Entirely understandable though.

I can't tell how it is ... but I drove the Cayenne Turbo on a small handling track, as well as the 911S, 911S4, 911 Turbo, Boxster and Boxster S last year (996 and 986 models for sure)
my thoughts are that the Cayenne Turbo runs like hell on a straight part, but handles like a truck through tight corners (compared with all other P-cars)
o.k. - I know every other SUV would handle worse, but with the entire experience I can't believe that the Cayenne Turbo could be competitive with all other P-cars on a F1 circuit

but o.k., this is only my personal opinion

A car magazine here tested a 996 and a Cayenne Turbo on the track (Zandvoort - F1 spec track).
It was raining, and the Cayenne's laptimes were faster than those of the 996 (2wd version)

A cayenne turbo showed up to an AX at Irwindale last year, everyone snickered.
It was stock except for the bling wheels and lower profile HP tires.

Well, we stopped snickering after he ran.
He finished in the top 5 out of some very fast cars.
The darned computers controlled the power, the brakes, the suspension and handling. All he had to do was point and shoot, the car did the rest.

EVO, a U.K.-based mag -- possibly the world's best car magazine -- tested a Cayenne Turbo against a Lancer Evo VIII on a race track.

The Cayenne Turbo was faster by a nose! Like it or hate it, the thing is deeply impressive. Not very involving, tho'...

pete