So, after restoring this 73 and having a blast with the Renegade aspect (love the way it drives).... I have a bit of a problem. Never paid any attention until I started to drive the car and getting this gas smell. Well it didn't take but 5 seconds once I actually looked at the line off the filler. The guy (PO) had just looped the line back through the 1/2" nipple into the fuel spill area. So, here's my question. What are you conversion guys doing/running on your rides. Are you using the stock overflow and charcoal unit with all the vacuum lines? Some modified versions?? Would love to know.

Attached is my current setup. I'm embarrassed that I never caught it. Oh, and for those who care to know, I replaced that old line and fitted a new line and bottle catch to see if that was my source of gas. It is.....


Dave

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Run it on the outside after you remove the valance then dump it into the intake.

Eliminating the charcoal evap unit results in gas fumes reaching the passenger compartment. That's just the way it is. The large line is for spillage, and runs down behind the tank through an opening in the body, venting to the open air. The evap system is different (but also COMPLETELY passive). Why people remove it is an absolute mystery to me. One 3mm line from the tank to the expansion tank surrounding the filler neck, one from the expansion tank to the evap can, a 12mm line from the fan causing or top cylinder tin to the evap can, and another to the air filter housing. Simple, effective, and you lose NO horsepower. If ever there were something you could call a "no brainer", this system is it. I'm sure you can find a place to put the fan housing hose. If you have a radiator fan, you could probably rig it there and get some air flow. You can source most of the system with a want ad here, or get hold of Bruce Stone.

The Cap'n

So, using the diagram below, I have no fan (Blow) power so to speak. I have a radiator with electric fans on them for cooling (Remember I have a renegade). I could easily create an inlet into my air cleaner for the final run but what would I use for that fan power?


Dave



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Perhaps they were trying to save weight on the car?

Wondering how important flow from the fan (Stock 914) is? Do you think the system would run/ be efficient with suction from the air cleaner drawing that final leg? In addition I could run a hose up to the air inlet area (Front of the 914) near the radiator and air would be forced into the hose at speed.

Dave

i ran that small hose down under the tank and out the bottom of the car. So if it spits a little wont stink up the car

Trying to stay legal so to speak although that did cross my mind. Little note to us conversion guys. talked to a Summit Racing manager the other day and he told me to be ready that California was going to require smog on EVERYTHING from 1966 and up. All cars must have stock engines and smog systems (if any for early years).

Scaring the crap out of me right now. At least they should give us a referee like they used to for us guys that make mods. Did that with my Jetta powered Westy.

Dave

You were lucky to get the Westy approved, because the failure to get ARB approval put the guy selling the kits out of business. I did 2 conversions, and they both had to leave the state.

The Cap'n

Naah--they've always required smog on everything. It's just that they have let us out of getting tested. We still had to meet all the requirements, they just never checked up on us.

It's a fine point, but I'm pretty sure that's how they're going to sell it...

--DD

I sure hope your right on this one.


Dave

I believe I read Sir Andy's fix in some thread - Punch a hole in the large overflow hose and insert the smaller fume hose inside for several inches. Make sure it is a tight fit. Seems to work for him?

Check this out..... found this Micro fan and has some impressive MBF ratings. I think this would work perfectly as a "Blow" source for the charcoal canister on my Renegade. Trying to make this system stock because we know it works and in my opinion it's the best way to go. Not knocking those that port it out the bottom but not the way I want to go.


Dave






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Later 75s & 76s have a more modern setup. That 1/8" hose goes to a big black plastic box that surrounds the filler. Then a 1/8" hose goes from that, to a tube with the fuel lines, to the intake. It's all vacuum.
Modern cars have a switch so it only flows during idle.

The point is to capture the gas vapor so it doesn't enter the atmosphere. Run it to the carb, unless the manifold has a vacuum inlet.

There should be no fluid, just vapor.

I would think 40yo charcoal would no longer be activated, thus making it pointless to install.

The 70s and 80s were a horrible time for emissions solutions.

EDIT: 5v blower?

Run the little small vent line down the back and out the hole that the large spill line went through. Leave it hanging down an inch or so below the car to crest a Venturi effect.

It's old school and was like that up till the 70,s on lots of cars.

The way you have it now, the fumes are captive inside the front trunk and seeping into the cabin.

Yeah 5V...... small, quiet, low CFM and it has a 100,000 hour failure rating at 20 degree's celsius. Shipped to the house it's $15.00 and would supply a nice moderate amount of air into the canister. Everything else I looked at would blow like a son of a gun.

Hey thanks everyone. I got all my parts in from Parts Heaven and just need to attach the line going to the air cleaner and of course mount the small blower up front. I'm convinced that this "Stock" setup (less the small blower) will work just fine.

Dave

I was questioning the 5 volts part. Nothing in the car makes 5v so you would have to add a regulator gizmo to not kill it.

I would think you could find a 12v tiny blower on Mouser or Digikey.

Not sure that little guy will move enough air for you. It's spec'd for .57 CFM at .18" H20. Might be enough for a microchip in a laptop, but it's just gonna make noise in your car. Not sure exactly what kind of CFM you're going to need, but I'd shoot for something in the 2-5 CFM range. And 12 volts for sure.

I know..... .57 was exactly (or near) what I was wanting because I don't think the original fan push was much either. I bet I don't even hear it. Yes, getting from 12V to 5V is super simple and yes I checked my favorite place (Digi-key) and no I did not like the 12V blowers I saw. To much flow, larger and I would bet noiser.

For the record, with everything in place except the tiny blower, I filled her up. Ran it through the tests... (Left turn sharp, left turn sweeper and hard aceleration and stops and guess what? Not one wiff of gasoline.

Man I don't get this 12V thing. taking a device that runs 4-5 volts from 12V is nothing more than a tiny voltage regulator. There's a zillion sizes, types and brands. Oh well, to each their own.

Dave

No need to get your panties in a twist. Sounds like you are going into this with eyes wide open and have considered your specifications. We are simply trying to offer some advice and point out possible pit-falls later you could run into. There are many ways to skin a cat and you are certainly correct that a simple voltage regulator would allow you to run that fan off of a 12 Volt source. Please let us know how things turn out.

You know this is why I hate email and sometimes posting in forums. My panties are not in a twist and I took no offense to the information being passed. Amused at why 12V is the voltage of choice but I respect that. I'm always grateful for ANY information that I get and I consider it honorable that so many people are willing to share. I have always thanked the people in my posts as I did somewhere above and I will say it again with no malice, ill will or aimed attitude at anyone. I apologize for coming across that way but once again, text rarely translates the true feelings of the person typing.

Thanks again, this post and my gas smell are a success in my eyes and I really appreciate everyones contributions.

Dave

HA!!! I admitted that my panties were not in a twist. After reading that it implies that I wear panties!!!! Oh well I guess it could be worse saying I'm going commando.

Too late, we all know you wear panties now.

I get that. Text is pretty flat and it takes a lot more of it to convey ones true feelings/tone than a simple face to face conversation. I certainly share your sentiments regarding the appreciation of everyone's contributions.



So you're not gonna deny that you wear panties eh? Glad to hear of your success no matter your choice of undergarments!