Going to put her back together. The D Sport Racer will just have to happen later.

Looking for all good ideas on weight savings.

Well that's good news! Let me know if you need a hand...

Giggity!

Where are you at right now? I haven't had a good look at 222 in a while ...

Gun drilled axles?

Ceramic rotors?


What size rotors do you have now?
Do you really need rotors that big?)


Drilling holes to lighten bolts...replacing nuts with aluminum nuts in certain places where there is mostly a shear force?

Good decision!!! I've got some Koni rears in the shop that I've been keeping around....just in case. Not sure about springs though.

As for wt reduction: You don't need an oil cooler for AX or hillclimb. Your front air dam and splitter seemed pretty heavy to me. Are you still running steel doors? Mikey found some F/G door skins that are very light and not too expensive. That's all I can think of for now.

Right on the front cooler. That Mazda cooler I had was big and with -10lines, fittings and oil was a lot of weight. Always thought I'd be doing a bunch of track work.

Also bi-passing the thermostat (forward and return lines( will be easy. Just need to find a U fitting with male connections. Here is a picture of the current setup.

Click to view attachment

So which bumper did you use on the top Bill? Need to find one of those then do some sheet metal below and then hang a splitter off the bottom.

My doors are like 13lbs as they sit now/

Losing the Targa, behind the driver, would save some serious weight. Ummm.

As she stands now.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Where do you get ceramic rotors? Also wondering how much they cost.

There are 911 rotors and calipers on the front. Back rotors and calipers are stock.

How much weight does one save drilling the existing rotors?

Could switch over to lighter calipers on the front.....

I had the three qt. Accusump on the car that I sold. Want to put one back, but the question is just how big a unit does a Type 4 really need? Accusump has 1/2 or 3 qt. units.

The protection I'm looking for is corner surge, but just how much additional oil does one really need to protect the bearings?

Aftermarket Carbon Ceramic Brakes shown at SEMA this year:

http://www.fusionbrakes.com/

Jenny Craig

I have seen rear rotors lightened by cutting/drilling the horizontal hub section. Don't know how safe. I think it was the blue smirf/Blholder

I know Bill Charron also did some nice machining on his to drop weight. Or maybe he just drilled some big holes..

Those ceremic disks are a bit pricey at $11,000 a set.

... which reminds me of the old saying... "How fast can you build this car to go?" "I dunno, how much do you want to spend?"


I always thought that was a really good looking car Randal. Would love to see it in person someday.

I would think your best bang for the buck would be to spend your money on reducing sprung weight. You mentioned lighter (aluminum) calipers, and drilling the rotors. For an AX car, I bet that would be the best place to start.

Looking at the rest of the car, there isn't much that you already haven't modified, so not many other places where you could save weight. I would say the next step would require major fabrication. Replacing the front and rear bulkheads with a tubed setup (i.e. between the front shocktowers and the between the rear shocktowers.) I think that's what Paul (URY914) did and his car most definitely the lightest 914 I know of. Beyond that, you'd probably have to get Paul to make you some one piece fiberglass panels from his molds! Those things are amazing, and replace both the left and right sides of the car in one long piece. Maybe he'll post some pics.

What does she weigh now?

It looks really light to me. I'm guessing 1725lbs.

In her previous configuration she was 1680#.

Without the front oil cooler and lines (filled with oil) probably save 30#.

A smaller Accusump will save another 10#.

A new bumper and sheet metal set up for the front will save 10-15#

Drilling the rotors will save ?

Wilwood calipers will save ?

Targa top would be 20# at least.

I'm going to add on a electric steering assist unit which is +10#

Also a steering-quickner which is a couple of lbs.

If I can figure out a good stock shifter together with Foley's shift rod and transmission adapter guessing another 10#

Thinking if I could lose a net of 70# that would be good.

About 9lbs per rear wheel hp...

Just my opinion.
You've gone far enough with the car as built. Me thinks you'd have to lose a LARGE chunk of weight.....150-200lbs or so.....to get maybe a half second improvement in your times.
I don't think that will be enough.
There are options...but you prolly don't want to hear them so I won't waste both of our time.

I still see a lot of original sheet metal that could be gutted from the car.

Do you have any restrictions due to rules? Are there certain parts of the car that need to stay in their original form?

Options are buying a D Sport Racer, but that will be next. I'm not going to put a Subi in, just get the car running and improve my driving. If I get within a couple of seconds of the fast XP cars I win! I never really finished getting the handling sorted, but with a few minor improvement, the least of which are driver input, should do OK.

In SCCA I run XP or EMod. With XP I have to be at 1721# according to their rules. At that weight you have to compete with cars like Britain Smith's with 400 rear wheel HP.

In EMod the same challenge exists, but the competition is running 1500# cars with huge HP.

There might be other classes where I could compete, but need to do more research.

In hill climbs I run SPU (Super Production under 3.0 liters). This is actually a fair class and so far have been able to hold my own, setting hill records and running in the top 5 or better depending upon which 700HP race car shows up.

You can always add weight for those races where you have a minimum requirement to meet. Lead is your friend.
Plus, that way you can put the weight where you want it, as low as possible on the car.


Two areas that immediately stand out to me are the front firewall between the trunk and the tank and the rear firewall between the engine and trunk.
Both of those could be cut out and replaced with a tubular crossbeam at the top.

Good idea!

Lithium Ion and other polymer batteries have become options for race cars. I recall someone in PCA GGR selling or distributing them...less that 10lbs each. 5lbs lighter that the P680 or whatever the old-standard "light" battery was.

Happy to see 222 will stick around

Aluminum hats thinner rotor walls..weight that multiplies

In the front trunk you could leave the top boxed section of the fire wall and cut out what is below it. I have seen others do this.

Did you get my message about the hoods? Did you still wanna talk about 'BIG' ideas?

Thought I messaged you back. I'll send you a PM now.

Message sent, did you get it?

Good stuff Randal, I'm following what you're up to. Sorry I can't offer much help from here but everything I seem to do just adds weight to the darned car!!!

Cut the chassis off, seam weld it, put hinges on one end to work on it. Indy tube frame underneath.

Ha, but you have some serious power. And that is an understatement.

Hey Randal, I see you're thinking along the lines of epas, just to let you know, Toyota's small cars ( corollas and Yaris they call them here) have epas as well and may be a smaller unit to fit. And trust me, all that power is no good if you 're not quite sure which way it's going to thrust you.

Mike

This is the unit I'm looking at: http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant...amp;range_high=

There are others, as you pointed out, you can pick up cheaper, but the reason I like this one is that it can be installed in the same space as the down rod between the two steering U joints. Together with a quickner this would add a big element of car control, especially through slalom courses where you have to move fast, but super smooth.

That is a really nice and compact unit Randal. Does the computer allow you to increase or decrease the amount of assistance

It does. I'm going to talk with the installers down in LA. They probably will have some good ideas on how to mount it to the firewall. Kind of a weird spot, i.e., no straight angles, but should be able to fabricate something that works correctly.

We need some of that New Zealand fabrication talent over here!

Slalom courses will never be the same after the unit is installed...

Did you watch this D Sports racer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwuxbHF4j8wr

Now that is the way I want to go through.

Kiss. The power severing is going to add weight. I'm surprised the car isn't lighter with that much fiberglass. Got to be another 100 lbs in there for the taking. It's in the details.

Changing my objective now. Want to get below 1600#, but retaining the big cage for hillclimbs.

1600 should be very doable.
Beck's -6 was at one time rumored to be 1650. Take 150lbs off of that number for the weight of a -6 motor and voila.

I'm metal with intact trunk floors and nothing cut away. I'm 1835 wet and roughly believe I could shed 150 for the -6 and another 100 lbs easily in the metal panels/doors/fenders.

Get rid of the extras (like power steering)

Brandt - I believe you're running mostly track events and that is very different to autoxing or short Enduro events, like Medford. In these event you need short ratio steering, otherwise your spending all day just trying to get around a 90 degree (or more) corner, or making a right to left or left to right transition as in the case of a long slalom.

When you put in a steering quickner, unfortunately the steering gets really hard and it's difficult to muscle you way through a slalom course smoothly. Not being smooth cost you time; hence my quest to find an electric steering assist unit that doesn't weight much.

If I was just running hill climbs power assisted steering wouldn't be needed. But Medford, i.e., like 60 corners, many 90 degrees or tighter, in 4 minutes is tough.

I have an EPAS system for the Mustang on the way......not cheep but my hands & wrists will love me for it.

I just want to hear that beauty! Video?

A vid ain't gonna happen any time soon. I haven't got the kit (Coming out of FLA) yet and I'm hiring the install out.

I gave up video years ago....too much of a PITA......I suppose getting a vid out is easier these days...all my old stuff is in a closet somewhere.

While standing at the rear of the car, it sounds cool. Sitting in the cockpit, it sounds like the hounds from hell are loose under the bonnet.

This relaunch of 222 is the best news I've heard in while.
Let's race 914's together next year!

Click to view attachment

A video on an iphone takes about 2 seconds, maybe two clicks is all. Don't they have iphones up there in God's Country?

Sure, they got enough of them to tie up every fool in the country.

My cell is talk & text only.....I mostly ignore texts & don't send any.
Ok, I'm a luddite, so shoot me, but you better not miss. I do embrace certain technologies.

Merry Christmas JP and speaking of Christmas, here is an early Christmas present to myself.

Re-plumbed the oil lines removing the Mocal thermostat that ran to the front oil cooler.

Ha, just saved 30lbs (no front cooler/lines/oil) and did so at no dollars. So a pretty good weight reduction for the buck, hey? For the stuff I run I don't really need the front cooler and THANKS to Bill for the suggestion.

Now have to buy an Accusump and they are pricy.

Here is an after picture:

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Here is before:

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Nice.
Here's mine.
Click to view attachment

Hey Randal,
Do you still have rocker panels? IDK maybe that's stupid?... but it doesn't seem like they would help you in AX. Perhaps that is a good super cheap weight savings??? P.S. your front end came out beautiful! I'll have to send you pics!