A friend of a friend of a friend .... runs a shop that can do CF parts and he is interested in doing 914 targa tops. I'm going to loan him my second targa top to do tooling etc., but he wants some idea of what sort of interest there would be.

He can do the usual carbon fiber finishes and also the hybrid kevlar/carbon fabrics with red, blue, and yellow.

I didn't get a firm price, but the estimate is definitely in line with other CF parts for 914s (hoods, etc.)


-Tony

That would be a cool product!

I'd be in, but thats one of the things on my list to make, and i don;t like paying other people money.

ask him to do a kevlar inner lay up
when in an accident, you don't want big sharp kevlar splinters inside the cabin

i think there is interest in a 100% replacement top that is lighter and could be made stiffer....I know I'd like a top that is smooth unlike the factory top..."skins" can be bought already, but that does me no good for a street car since the seals and such cannot be mounted on it....

I'd pay a decent buck for one with latches and seals that actually work!

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Feb 1 2005, 06:32 PM)

ask him to do a kevlar inner lay up when in an accident, you don't want big sharp kevlar splinters inside the cabin

Joreon,

Do you mean cabon splinters, not Kevlar? I did some research a while back on the different types glass/carbon/kevlar, and kevlar was the one that would bend, carbon would just shatter.

Not trying to be the "guy who corrects everyone", just trying to understand.

Yea, I'm very interested, don't know beans about laying up CG.
Would really like to replace the old one with it.

If you are talking about a top that would actually have a prayer of a decent seal (at least as good as factory), at a $500-700ish price, I would be interested.

Sounds interesting. I'd like to know more.

I've seen alot of CG hockey sticks shatter. They are alot safer than wooden sticks,
No big jagged edges or anything like that just a little bit of fiber dangling around the broken end.

That's it, I GOT IT!

A targa top made of broken hockey sticks!

as always... price determines interest

I have to agree, it really depends on price. I am thinking I may try my hand at CF and make a top for mine. I have plenty of time and a place right down the street the sells all the materials. If I do, it will be done around fall or early winter this year.

I'd guess them to be in the same range as a CF hood or decklid, plus some more due to the critial fit of the front and sides. So without any prior knowledge of what it takes (other than purchasing CF hood and decklid), I'd guess the market would bear a $700 or so price.

What are the stock tops made of? Mine appears to be fibreglass but I don't know if it is stock or not. How would these tops differ from the ones that Sheridan makes?

Please keep me advised as specs and pricing become available.

I have been asking for a C/F top with kevlar interliner for safety for 2 years, so yes I would be interested. also for all the people who want to lighten there cars this is one of the best ways to lower the center of gravity with aC/F roof.

Bernie

I'd be interested in a CF top that uses the factory latches and seals. Keep me posted.

-Steve

Not to piss on the parade of me too's....but what makes you think a CF lid made by the Joe Bob, the friend of a friend of a friend, is gonna work, seal or fit any better than the leaky piece of shit aftermarket Lexan ones made in the early 80s that go for a mint on ebay?

Not saying it can't be done....just don't expect much....

I will rarely even have the top on my car anyway but I figure what the heck, it would look cool and be lighter so its a benefit all the way around. My car sits in the garage most of the time if I am not driving it. And when I drive it, I like the top off. Brisk mornings it is nice to have though to keep the rush of cold air off me. No heat yet in mine so it would really be needed.

QUOTE (skline @ Feb 1 2005, 09:13 PM)

I will rarely even have the top on my car anyway but I figure what the heck, it would look cool and be lighter so its a benefit all the way around. My car sits in the garage most of the time if I am not driving it. And when I drive it, I like the top off. Brisk mornings it is nice to have though to keep the rush of cold air off me. No heat yet in mine so it would really be needed.

It's running?

I've been thinking about a FUNCTIONAL CF top as well. Simply being lighter would be nice. However, I cannot justify a $500+ price tag just because it's CF or Kevlar

I want I want

QUOTE (BigD9146gt @ Feb 2 2005, 04:35 AM)

Do you mean cabon splinters, not Kevlar? I did some research a while back on the different types glass/carbon/kevlar, and kevlar was the one that would bend, carbon would just shatter.

Yep, carbon splinters, kevlar does not
That's why I suggested to have a carbon out lay up (for cosmetic appearance) and a kevlar inner lay up (to protect you from the carbon splintering in case of an accident)

I've been thinking of doing one myself, but slightly different manufacturing
Get an old top, cut out the center part (think big sun roof) so you basically only have the outside edges of the roof left
This way you have a frame that you know will fit

Make a mold of the top of the roof. Lay it up and when still wet, press the frame into it
Add an inner lay up of kevlar. Possibly with extra ribs for additional strength

You now have a roof that fits like the original, has all the provisions for the seals and latches already, but with a nice new outer skin...

I know, I know... I'm

QUOTE (Air_Cooled_Nut @ Feb 2 2005, 01:46 AM)

I've been thinking about a FUNCTIONAL CF top as well. Simply being lighter would be nice. However, I cannot justify a $500+ price tag just because it's CF or Kevlar

CF is really expensive. If a mould is made for the top there shouldn't be any reason that they could be made of regular fiberglass. Most all of the CF parts are not compression moulded anyway, so there's no significant structural difference. It's got to be compression moulded to get the "stronger than steel" factor going, and that's very expensive to do.

Regardless of material, I doubt if anyone would make brand new roofs for less than $400-$500. When I got my CF hood and deck it was an extra $150 per part, and that was ten years ago. They were $450 in regular fiberglass. I know CF is alot more, and goes up all the time. If you were to add Kevlar it could get really expensive.

Also, you have to buy special tools to work with kevlar. Regular scissors DO NOT cut kevlar for very long.... that stuff is brutal!

The reason these things cost so much money is be cause of the mold making time... any flaw in the mold directly shows in the finished product!!!!

The size of these molds is big and heavy. These molds need to be lifted my a fork lift sometimes because they are so big. massive reiforcement goes into each mold to insure a perfect lay-up. It seems simple, but the time is outrageous!

I know i wouldn't sell one for under $500... you gotta make up your labor somewhere. And its not just the fabric thats pricy, the correct epoxies can add up major $$$.

Joreon, i like that idea! I'd first make a mold off your top, then sand your top down and cut out the center like your saying , then lay up several carbon/kevlar sheets, then lay the original down, and then lay up a few layers on the inside to help sandwich the original peice...

Mine is going to be all carbon/kevlar with aluminum reiforements (like the factory GT cars tops).

I like Jeroen's idea.

I also know CF is more spendy compared to regular fiber glass as this is what I had done to my motorcycle:


It's just an overlay but it was still cheaper than paint! Local guy in my VW club did it.

This is good feedback and I'll forward it to Tom. He told me also that he is setting up a 4 axis CNC mill at his new shop and that he can make billet aluminum latch hardware etc. I told him there might be interest in a bare roof, or in a roof ready-to-install but I think he needs to look a little more carefully at the details and see what works out best.

I will stress to him that people have had bad experiences in the past with Saratoga tops, etc. and that if they leak they won't sell.

The Kevlar interior portion is probably a good idea.

-Tony

I'd be intrested. (thers a lot of stuff to do before I need a top though)

Good point on the fiberglass. Once the mould is built, production should be possible out of either material, right.

I think a carbon top that fit at least as well as factory would sell.

I would bet some of the problems with the saratoga top are related to heat warp and sag...I doubt the cf would have those same issues.

So I dont think anyone has asked...HOW MUCH LIGHTER?

Can anyone answer my earlier questions? My car has what appears to be a fibreglass top with the latches and rubber. I don't know where it came from so I assumed it was stock. However, if the stock one is metal this one would have to be an aftermarket piece. The car also has a Sheridan body kit so perhaps it's from them. It seems to fit good however I'm thinking I would like to get rid of the latches and make my roof non removeable.

So back to my questions. What is the stock roof made of? Does the Sheridan roof have latches? If so, what is the advantage of carbon fibre over that justifies the over double the cost.

QUOTE (soloracer @ Feb 2 2005, 01:18 PM)

Can anyone answer my earlier questions? My car has what appears to be a fibreglass top with the latches and rubber. I don't know where it came from so I assumed it was stock. However, if the stock one is metal this one would have to be an aftermarket piece.

umm...stock roofs arent metal

QUOTE (soloracer @ Feb 2 2005, 01:18 PM)

Can anyone answer my earlier questions? My car has what appears to be a fibreglass top with the latches and rubber. I don't know where it came from so I assumed it was stock. However, if the stock one is metal this one would have to be an aftermarket piece. The car also has a Sheridan body kit so perhaps it's from them. It seems to fit good however I'm thinking I would like to get rid of the latches and make my roof non removeable. So back to my questions. What is the stock roof made of? Does the Sheridan roof have latches? If so, what is the advantage of carbon fibre over that justifies the over double the cost.

Yup, stock is fiberglass. There were two types, early and late.. Only minor differences between them.

QUOTE (soloracer @ Feb 2 2005, 01:18 PM)

So back to my questions. What is the stock roof made of? Does the Sheridan roof have latches? If so, what is the advantage of carbon fibre over that justifies the over double the cost.

I'm pretty sure the top from Sheridan is a "skin" that would have to be bolted/screwed/glued onto the car....sounds like you have a stock targa top....

QUOTE

and that he can make billet aluminum latch hardware etc

....waste of time/money...nothing really wrong with the stock hardware...just make the top so that all of the stock seals and hardware items bolt directly onto it.....

key items for a new top:
smooth finish, good fit, structually as strong or stronger than stock and of course, lighter than a stock roof

there is not a shortage of stock tops, so unless it's "better" than a stock top, no need for one....

QUOTE

....waste of time/money...nothing really wrong with the stock hardware...just make the top so that all of the stock seals and hardware items bolt directly onto it..... key items for a new top: smooth finish, good fit, structually as strong or stronger than stock and of course, lighter than a stock roof there is not a shortage of stock tops, so unless it's "better" than a stock top, no need for one....

-Tony

i think it would be way cool. i got a black car... with a smooth black top. CF top would be too cool.

strictly bling factor


EDIT:
omg... i have a great idea..... someone post a pic of a targa top mounted on a car please.... mostly the rear overhang (side/rear profile please)

i have a crazy idea