I know the last turkey who installed my windshield did a bad job. Now that I am actually using the car regularly, I need to get this sealed up. After a car wash, water literally pours onto my feet when I accelerate...

I know I'll need to pull the windshield (I am buying a new one), but any suggestions on things (seals, etc) to look out for when we're in there a very good installer (by word of mouth) might NOT know about the 914 application?

IS there even a seal once you get past the alum. trim and clips? Or does the glass itself just glue in? What about the rubber I can see at the absolute front of the dash?

Many thanks,

pete

now i am no expert on this matter, but from what I have noticed in my car, there seems to be a adhesive that holds the window in place below the aluminum trim (which by the way just snaps onto the frame[per say])Anyway, there should be some window rubber that you would need to buy (look at the AA "914 Body" section for that) Hoep that helps


-B

BE EXTRA SUPER-DUPER CRAZY CAREFUL with that aluminum trim. That stuff will mess up so fast your head will spin....and then you'll feel your credit card get warm....you'll see what i mean

You may have "extra" problems, Pete...

There is only one seal, and that goes between the windshield and the dash. If you were thinking you might want to replace it some time before the next time the windshield is out, then do it this time! I don't think it can be done with the windshield in the car... There are two (I think!) rubber blocks that help locate the windshield; they go at the bottom and the edge of the WS rests on them.

The clips that hold the window trim on are held in by the glass. You usually break some when removing the trim (you don't want to bend the trim!!) so it's good to have new ones on hand.

The glass is held in by a 1/4" wide rope of butyl tape windshield adhesive. This rope should not have any breaks in it (overlap the ends a little bit but make them a little narrower first) to let water in.

The water you're getting may be due to rust holes around the windshield frame. You may want to have the installer remove the windshield a day or more before he installs the new one. That will give you the opportunity to clean up the pinch-seam in the body and get rid of any rust.

--DD

Where can one find the little clips that hold the trim on?

QUOTE (Headrage @ Feb 3 2005, 09:57 AM)

Where can one find the little clips that hold the trim on?

i bought mine from HPH ...

dave's right (of course). the glas is held down by the butyl tape which also *is* the seal around the window.
the rubber seal between the dash and the window can't be replaced with the window in the car, you have to do this while the window is out (in fact, the window will sort of sit on top of that seal) ...
the butyl tape comes with 3 rubber spacers you use to position the glass and hold it in place while the butyl dries.

Andy

Can you be sure the water is from windshield leaks? If you are getting water dumped on your feet, I would be more inclined to think water is getting into the area above your feet from the front fresh air vent or the trunk seal. Use a hose and then check the area behind the gas tank where the vent system and wiper mechanism are located.

As always, many thanks for the input guys...

I am definitely worried about the rust issue, which is why I am fired up to get this done.

Two more questions:
-What does the rubber "seal" do if the tape seals the windshield in...?
-How does one best (i.e. most easily) clean the drains for the fresh air box under the cowl? I am not sure they have EVER been cleaned.

Judging by how the water literally pours in on my feet, only when I accelerate after a car wash, I am wondering if plugged up drains for the airbox are the real cause of my problem. The more I think about it, the less I believe the windshield boss could hold and keep that much water at the ready.

I'd rather fix this and isolate the windshield "leak" before going in there. How nice it would be if I found out I DON'T need a new windshield. That aluminum trim is no fun, the last guy did not get it quite right and I have been wondering if I have excess wind noise around the windshield as a result...

Thanks!

pete

2 little things to add:

1/4' butyl is really only supposed to be used on top of the old butyl that is left when you remove a windshield that was installed with butyl. Since in most 914 remove/re-installs are done because the existing seal was bad, you will want to remove all of the remnants of the old seal and start from scratch. When you start over, you should use 3/8" tape instead of 1/4.

Butyl tape never dries (there is liquid butyl, but that is used for leak repair, not new installations). The second the glass touches the tape, the seal is set. The rubber blocks do 2 things: give you a place to set the glass as you are moving it into place, and getting the glass roughly centered top to bottom in the opening. Once the glass is set and you have pushed the perimeter down onto the tape, you can pull out the blocks and not hurt a thing. I usuallu just cut them back even with the face of the glass and leave them.

A windshield replacement really is one small step above "trained chimp could do it" on the difficulty scale. With the right basic supplies and a slow pace, anybody with any ability at all can do it. If you are game to take a stab at it, we'll walk you thru it.

QUOTE (horizontally-opposed @ Feb 3 2005, 10:35 AM)

-What does the rubber "seal" do if the tape seals the windshield in...?

it hides the gap between the dash and the window. it's just cosmetics ...

Andy

Many thanks for the above bits of info.

If it's just costmetics, me thinks the seal ahead of the dash can stay. It looks fine.

pete

Air box repair is fun. To remove it the gas tank should be pulled, thats the only way I have ever done it (might as well think of front sway bar inner re-inforcment plates at this time too, if not so equiped)

Once pulled, the motor should be lubed, and leaves / debries cleaned out.

Too prevent clogging from ever ever ever happening again, you must add a piece of aluminum window screen between the air box and the cowl vents. Early cars hd only the vents to stop debries (near useless), later the factory add a plastic gril und the vents, with about maybe 1/4 inch openings, this helped keep the big bugs out, but did little for seeds, pine needles, and the like, and still allowed clogging.

Use aluminum screem, not the plastic, as it won't last forever in the sun, and remember the tank need be pulled for replacement.

I painted mine gloss black with some spray paint before installing. Consider doing this after the car is painted if painting is in the near future, as masking the vents nicely is a real pain.

Also what has leaked on me are the wiper base seals, crappy design with the little well for water to sit in. Lossen the large nut after the wiper arm is removed, and get a bead of black silicone rubber under the big washer as a new seal, that ought to stop any leaks there.

You might also have rust int he top corners of the trunk lid rubber seal channel, and/or at the point where the little rubber seal is between the fender and the cowl.
Rust in either location can allow water into the upper front trunk (dash area) and rain down on you.

The real test for this is on some cold morning, open the front trunk, and see if you have water condensation on the trunk lid on the section over the gas tank. (trunk is in two sections, the forward storage area, and the rear gas tank / inner dash area) They are seperated by a fire wall, and rubber seal that seals agains the trunk lid.

If you got condensation inside the trunk lid, then you got water in there, and the above are all potential sources, and believe me, I had them all on one car, took a while to get them all, let the trunk dry out, close it, let it rain, then check again, repeat, repeat until one day you find you got it.


One 914 trick during the rainy season is to run a very thin bead of black silicone rubber on the outside over the roof, and the roof seal. this tends to stop most roof leaks.

Keep them dry inside else they will rot before your eyes, oh how this is true with the 914.

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 3 2005, 10:14 AM)

QUOTE (Headrage @ Feb 3 2005, 09:57 AM) Where can one find the little clips that hold the trim on? i bought mine from HPH ...

I had mine replaced a few months ago at HPH. Seals, clips and glass. I'm happy with the results.

QUOTE

The clips that hold the window trim on are held in by the glass. You usually break some when removing the trim (you don't want to bend the trim!!) so it's good to have new ones on hand.

Ummm I just pulled my glass mabey last week and those clips are not held in by the glass! they are hard plastic and have a pin that once depressed fit into a small hole(s) around the frame. They appear to be use once/break to remove fasteners?

I just had mine done.

Anderson glass (don't know if they're nationwide or not) came to my house and did the install for $240, including the WS! That's a good price, gents.

The guys told me that butyl tape is no longer legal for professional installations. They used the current urethane which is used on most modern windshields. It took 4 hours to dry, but I wasn't in a hurry and it has the added advantage of being able to move the WS slightly after you set it. With butyl, it's a one-touch deal and if it's slightly off, you have to start all over. Ask me how I know (1987).

The trim clips are not held in by the windshield, they pin themselves as previously stated. It's a very good idea to replace them all while the WS is out.

QUOTE

The guys told me that butyl tape is no longer legal for professional installations. They used the current urethane which is used on most modern windshields.

That is a state by state deal. Here, the rule is that if the original was a urethane set, you cannot replace it with butyl set. Truth is, urethane dramatically increases strutural integrity of the windshield frame in a roll over. Butyl has damn near 0 strength in a roll over. Modern urethanes have a much greater viscosity, making possible to set the glass on the bead without squishing it all over the place. Much more difficult for the do it yourselfer to get it right though. If you want a urethane set, you are much better off letting a glass guy do it. ($240 is a great installed price BTW. My buds at the shop can get me a new one for $216. Must have been a shield they have had for a while at that price.)

any pro-tips on removing that delicate trim without destroying it? as long as we're on the subject.

I doubt your leak is from the airbox. The only path for water from the fresh air blower into the cabin is through the heater ducting. But those hoses change height, so you'd need a ton of water. Even if the drain was plugged, it would take a LOT of water to fill it up. Much more than occurs during a typical washing.

If the windshied is leaking, you could have a little dribble the collects inside the cabin (behind the dash?) while you're washing and then releases when you accellerate.

Come by the shop some day and I'll help you try and figure it out. I always love a good mystery. Novato is only a short sunny drive.

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 3 2005, 06:29 PM)

any pro-tips on removing that delicate trim without destroying it? as long as we're on the subject.

Here you go:trim removal by a dummy. . . .I mean for dummies

Oh ya, my fresh air box in my '72 sent a torrent of water into the cabin via the foot vents the time I tried to wash my car at a touchless. I helplessly watched it pour right in. Sheeesh were my feet wet.

thanks for the link!

nice, nice! Napa is but a short drive away. Soon as this deadline is done, I'll shoot you a PM...

Thanks!

pete

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 4 2005, 07:22 AM)

I doubt your leak is from the airbox.  The only path for water from the fresh air blower into the cabin is through the heater ducting.  But those hoses change height, so you'd need a ton of water.  Even if the drain was plugged, it would take a LOT of water to fill it up.  Much more than occurs during a typical washing.

Mark - WRONG. It doesn't take much water to flood the airbox and get water in the car. Every time I used to wash my car I'd get a nice fountain of water onto my feet when I went to drive the car. That was before I figured out both drains were plugged.

I am totally with the guys who say this is the airbox. I would check that out before you mess with the windshield.

The sheer amount of water keeps me thinking it's the airbox. And the fact that it pours onto my feet on acceleration only. Bottom of the trunk seals look good, no holes in the steel and no rust apparent under the rubber.

But where do the vent-box drains DRAIN to?

And, is there ANY way to clear them without pulling the tank?

Thanks,

pete

the vent box drains go behind the gas tank and through the floor. there are tow drain holes on the box that join at one drain hose. you might be able to get back there and pull off the hoses if you have skinny arms like me. it would probably be easier to just pull out the tank and then do it. and i guess they're not really hoses, cause they're hard plastic tubes that break pretty easily.