installed my pilots today; got 'em with the fancy bracket from Craig at CAMP 914. so i am now a happy camper!

needed to call my tech support ("dino, are you sure the electrons are in there? i don't see any... you're saying if i hook these wires together the electrons will get into the lights?" ), and all is well. eventually the wiring will be changed so that i can run drivers only, just like the kewl kids!

let's see, SS brackets from Craig (along with other stuff last year), pedal board from Engman, wheel from Brad Meyeur, brake kits from Perry Kiehl, carbs from Andyrew (all teenagers should have a V8 914), calipers from Dan Root, too much stuff to mention from Kevin Powers and Dino Davis. heck, i have even gotten help from the good guys at Triad NW! for those of you who have not done business with any of the above mentioned men, you should co it if you need stuff. Thanks, dudes!

btw, Aaron; i didn't put a relay on mine, and they seem to work fine. nothing odd happened when i kicked 'em on. if i find out anything more or notice anything strange, i'll pass it on.

QUOTE (red914 @ Feb 6 2005, 11:11 PM)

btw, Aaron; i didn't put a relay on mine, and they seem to work fine. nothing odd happened when i kicked 'em on. if i find out anything more or notice anything strange, i'll pass it on.

hope you dont fry the wiring.....

IIRC facotry used a relay too

ive seen these lights...they are tres cool!

ok, Aaron, explain to me, please, what a relay is and what it does, and why i need one. history degree; can't see electrons, so they frighten me. long live king ludd!!!!

here is my understanding.

The switch deals with minimal current, just enuff to switch the relay.

a relay is like an "electronic switch". opens and closes the circuit.....

power to your headlights isnt done JUST by your healight switch. It is switched by the relays.....

so, what does one look like? where does it go? where do i get one?

yes, i am an electronically disinclined moron, in case you were wondering.

fog lights are switched by a relay too, but the stock wiring should not be used on high wattage bulds, basicly the stock fog lights were 55 watts, so if you go much higher say 75 watts or more you could burn some wires. what you can do is run a 10 gauge wire to the battery and use a 30 amp relay connected to the lights and new wire to feed power to the fog lights, then the stock wiring turns on the relay, simple huh?

stock fogs were 35W

QUOTE (red914 @ Feb 6 2005, 11:25 PM)

so, what does one look like? where does it go? where do i get one? yes, i am an electronically disinclined moron, in case you were wondering.

know how "google" works??

How relays work

Your car already has a few of them....for the fuel pump, for the headlights, for the turnsignals.....

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 6 2005, 10:29 PM)

stock fogs were 35W

sorry i stand corrected

BTW my driving lights are 55 watts and never a problem, i have ran them for a while and check to see if anything has heated up, and no problems so far.

so i change my statement anything 55 watts or less "should" be ok, anything more should get a relay

Late model ('75 & 76) rectangular fogs were 55w H3. So you were both right.

Relays can also help head/foglights burn brighter. You can run bigger wires to the relays to make sure you are getting maximum current and hence full brightness.

Trying to run lots of current through too-small wires creates heat. Bad. Even if you don't smell anything burning, the heat could cause the insulation to crack eventually. Scott may be right about anything up to 55w being ok, but the wiring in these cars is at least thirty years old and was only just sufficient when new. I would run relays period.

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Feb 7 2005, 01:33 AM)

so i change my statement anything 55 watts or less "should" be ok, anything more should get a relay

the stock headlight switch already has a very hard life and will eventually fail, especially since we tend uo uprate the watts and fall behind on our contact- and ground-cleaning regimen, all of which increases current draw.

relays are cheap and easy, and will result in improved performance of both the headlight and aux (driving/fog) lights. there is a factory fog/driving light relay but it could probably stand to be uprated and heavier wires run.

ideally, you'd power the relay with a big (fused) wire run directly from the battery. the mid-mounted battery in our cars makes this a challenge but do what you can.

in addition to improved lighting performance, you're trying to extend the life of the headlight switch: here's a snippet from the Pelican site, for example...

" The 914 headlamp switch often fails with age. Solve possible headlamp problems with a new factory replacement.

Headlamp Switch, 914 1.7/1.8/2.0 (1970-76), 914-6 (1970-72), Each
B-613-414-10 $385.90 "

Running 100w driving lights with separate relay and 10 ga power wire. Slow traffic usually gets the message real quick "Move over" . This after they ignore the 55/65w Euro high beams.

i put in the pilots, too. used the original switch and relay. works great

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Feb 6 2005, 10:27 PM)

what you can do is run a 10 gauge wire to the battery and use a 30 amp relay connected to the lights and new wire to feed power to the fog lights, then the stock wiring turns on the relay, simple huh?

10 GUAGE WIRE???????? Are you kidding. That is huge overkill for 100 watts.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Feb 7 2005, 09:21 AM)

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Feb 6 2005, 10:27 PM) what you can do is run a 10 gauge wire to the battery and use a 30 amp relay connected to the lights and new wire to feed power to the fog lights, then the stock wiring turns on the relay, simple huh? 10 GUAGE WIRE???????? Are you kidding. That is huge overkill for 100 watts.

Not really. The run from the battery through the car up to the front is quite a ways. (about 12 ft) I ran the power wire along the original loom and gromets including the Guey duck at the engine shelf. These lights are bright and when on you can feel the heat 10" infront of the lens.

well thats a point. I didn't think about the run from the mid...i spaced. Sorry

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Feb 7 2005, 09:21 AM)

10 GUAGE WIRE???????? Are you kidding. That is huge overkill for 100 watts.

10 gauge for 100 watts over kill ... lets look at it

100 watts/12 volts = 8.3 amps not bad if they are 50 watts each but they are a lot of 100 bulbs out there, so we will say its 200 total, or 16.6 amps. which if we go by house wiring standards a 12 gauge gets breakered at 20 amps but is not allowed to carry more than 16 ( 80 % rule)
now in a house you are working with 120 volts and a 3 % voltage drop is allowed. now in a car there is no code but we want to be safe and thats why we are running the extra wire any, right. now in a car a drop of 1 volt due to resistance is a 12% loss, once again we are upgrading lets not shoot our selves in the foot and upgrade half way, esp if the cost is 1 dollar more

wow! i drove my kids to various activities this afternoon and evening (at different time, as only one will fit )

the driving lights work with only the marker (?) lights (first stop on the headlight switch) on, so the headlights are down. tried the headlights at the same time, and you can barely tell the headlights are on! which tells me that it is time to upgrade to h-4s!

the wires on the car to which the lights hooked up is the same gauge as the wire included in the kit. aruond 14 or so. so far, so good with the stock switch and relay.

dude, the lights are bright!

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Feb 7 2005, 10:10 AM)

100 watts/12 volts = 8.3 amps not bad if they are 50 watts each but they are a lot of 100 bulbs out there, so we will say its 200 total, or 16.6 amps. which if we go by house wiring standards a 12 gauge gets breakered at 20 amps but is not allowed to carry more than 16 ( 80 % rule) now in a house you are working with 120 volts and a 3 % voltage drop is allowed.

House wiring is not comparable to car wiring. House wiring is AC, and cars are DC. Completely different as far as current capacity for wire gauge. Also, house wiring is solid core wire and car wiring is stranded.

Demick

so if i want to run the pilot lights... the STOCK wiring and relay is good eniff - correct?

also- if i want to upgrade to hella H4's....the stock wiring is sufficent - yes?

alternator can handle pilot's and h4's at the same time correct?

QUOTE (Demick @ Feb 7 2005, 08:15 PM)

House wiring is not comparable to car wiring. House wiring is AC, and cars are DC. Completely different as far as current capacity for wire gauge. Also, house wiring is solid core wire and car wiring is stranded. Demick

well you are right about the stranded vrs solid but the ac vrs dc does not matter 1 amp is 1 amp. in cars they actually over rate wires, my suby engine has 12 gauge wires with a 30 amp fuse, and 18 gauge wires with a 15 amp fuse, the wires resistance is the same so heat generated is the same. luckly our cars like our houses never really draw what the fuse is rated for. if you are upgrading you might as well use one step bigger wire than you should, just to prevent any drop in voltage, like i said if your upgrading you might as well "upgrade"

and arron yes you can do both sets of lights at the same time but i would recommend against 100 watt headlights and 100 watt driving lights, but 100 and 55 is okay, its like 8 amps different

Scott - In the Subie the fuse is probably rated for instantaneous peak current while the wire gauge is sized for the average current flow. With lighting it's a little different because when your lights are on they draw peak current all the time, so the wire has to be thicker.