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Phoenix914
My car has been sitting for too long. It's time to get it back in driving shape.

While assessing the condition of the engine, I found that the head on the driver's side has some issues to address.

Here is the hardware that was holding the intake to the head:

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I know, right? We have seen this before. Yes, those are threads that came out next to the threaded rod/nut combo on the left. It looks like I have to drop the engine and pull that head.

Question: Can anyone recommend a good machine shop in Central Florida to fix the head put the studs back in?
Phoenix914
Of course, we all know what this engine-pulling exercise means. . .

- While it's out, I have to get all that crusty adhesive off the firewall.

- And then, there is a bit of rust in the hell-hole (not too bad) that has to be addressed. Oh yea, there is a nice hole in the middle of the battery tray. It's solid, otherwise.

- And then there all the FI parts and engine tin that really could use a paint job:

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Dirty injectors and fuel rails

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Hell hole

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Ugh.

I remember how therapeutic it used to be when I spent hours in the garage working on this car. Now, hours in the garage is a luxury that I rarely experience.

It looks like I need to have a plan of attack. Hopefully, when I drop the engine, I won't find any scary surprises. I already plan to change the fuel lines and vacuum hoses. I would like to have the injectors rebuilt, but that may have to wait.

I currently have new points, condenser, spark plugs, fuel filter, rear bearings, Daystar delrin bushings for the rear (fronts installed many moons ago) and a long project list of other parts to buy.

Let the wrenching begin!
Phoenix914
Another picture of some ugliness I found:

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Look at those corroded points!
Phoenix914
I was looking for more shots to show a better overall picture of the car's condition, but came up with none. I will take some more this weekend (and make them smaller - wow those above are huge). This should be a thread to document the car's condition and what has been done to date (since 2003). There have been a lot of improvements, but many more that need to happen.

Thanks for reading and stay tuned. beer3.gif
Phoenix914
Work has been agonizingly slow, but I have been chipping away at it. I pulled the muffler off last night in preparation for taking out the engine for head removal. Since I don't have a lot of free space in the garage, I thought removing the muffler and heat exchangers would lessen the footprint of a pulled engine.

The muffler has plenty of surface rust all over, but appears sound with no holes. What should I do to keep it in good shape? Have it blasted and painted?

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stugray
Seems a bit late now, but fixing the threads on the intake side of the head with the engine in the car is easier than fixing the exhaust stud threads with the engine in.
And the head would not have to come off.

But based on some of the other things you have found, engine removal is the correct path.
But as mentioned above - IF you dont have a couple thousand $$ to spend over the course of the next 2-3 months, dont start down that path.
Phoenix914
QUOTE(stugray @ Apr 1 2015, 11:31 AM) *

Seems a bit late now, but fixing the threads on the intake side of the head with the engine in the car is easier than fixing the exhaust stud threads with the engine in.
And the head would not have to come off.

But based on some of the other things you have found, engine removal is the correct path.
But as mentioned above - IF you dont have a couple thousand $$ to spend over the course of the next 2-3 months, dont start down that path.


Thanks for the advice, stugray. And while I don't have $$$ to spend on too many repairs, there is only one way to get this car back on the road - engine out, head studs fixed, engine compartment cleaned up and rust controlled (haha) and then a complete tune up.

I plan to take the heads over to Series 9 for Joe to take a look at them. He said he could fix the studs for me, and I would like for his experienced eyes to assess the heads' general condition. If they are still serviceable (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), they will go back on as-is.

I completely understand the path you are talking about. But I do like working on cars, and this car especially wub.gif.
Phoenix914
Ok, group. I've been slowly working on this little project. Maybe I'll get the tin off today.

The question I have right now is, what is this thing? I've been having trouble finding another picture of it.

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Phoenix914
This was originally a CA car, but ended up on the East Coast. It that part a piece of CA emissions equipment, by any chance? Does it even belong on a 914 engine?

Thanks for looking.
Phoenix914
Ok, ok. . . it's a decel valve. I cleaned off the numbers enough to google them.

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Phoenix914
I think my confusion stems from the unusual mounting location of the valve. It's usually shown next to the MPS in diagrams. I will be sure to put it there when everything goes back together.
BeatNavy
QUOTE(Phoenix914 @ Apr 15 2015, 11:07 AM) *

I think my confusion stems from the unusual mounting location of the valve. It's usually shown next to the MPS in diagrams. I will be sure to put it there when everything goes back together.

Yeah, what's that decel valve doing up on the fan shroud? I've never seen it there. I assume it's always by the battery and MPS.

I JUST got through going through a similar exercise: installed new engine (2056), refreshed tranny (for conversion to side shift), and new Triad exhaust. I completely cleaned up the engine bay (toothbrush and paint stripper, what fun!) and welded in a new battery tray and engine lid hinge. I cleaned up the engine (powder coated everything) and serviced as much as I could. It's turned out very well, but I spent several weeks planning it out and acquiring parts. Another two weeks with it up on jackstands while I pulled the old engine and put everything new in. I felt the pressure because if this thing isn't running my wife doesn't have a car at home. I'm fairly exhausted right now and I'm hoping to just enjoy to driving it for a few weeks before tackling anything else major.

Good luck with your efforts. The "while you're in there" or "while it's out" thing can really send your project off on different tangents and make it take longer, and cost much more, than you planned.
Phoenix914
QUOTE(BeatNavy @ Apr 15 2015, 11:41 AM) *

Yeah, what's that decel valve doing up on the fan shroud? I've never seen it there. I assume it's always by the battery and MPS.

I JUST got through going through a similar exercise: installed new engine (2056), refreshed tranny (for conversion to side shift), and new Triad exhaust. I completely cleaned up the engine bay (toothbrush and paint stripper, what fun!) and welded in a new battery tray and engine lid hinge. I cleaned up the engine (powder coated everything) and serviced as much as I could. It's turned out very well, but I spent several weeks planning it out and acquiring parts. Another two weeks with it up on jackstands while I pulled the old engine and put everything new in. I felt the pressure because if this thing isn't running my wife doesn't have a car at home. I'm fairly exhausted right now and I'm hoping to just enjoy to driving it for a few weeks before tackling anything else major.

Good luck with your efforts. The "while you're in there" or "while it's out" thing can really send your project off on different tangents and make it take longer, and cost much more, than you planned.



I remember following some of your progress. You made a lot of headway in a fairly short time. Nice job!

Like many of us, I have to overcome some DAPO nonsense to get the car as right as possible. Not to blame the previous (original) owner of my car, because I know he didn't do any mechanical work himself... He actually really loved this car and did his best with it.

I just found a component mismatch that may have to rectified. Of course the fact that the engine is a 2056 with a carb-friendly cam makes the D-jet unhappy, anyway. Here is what I found:

ECU: 0 280 000 037 Correct for a '73 2.0

MPS: 0 280 100 043 NOT for a '73 2.0, but rather for a '74 with a -043 ECU

CHT: 0 280 130 012 (I do have the 270 ohm resistor, too) Should be -017, but those are NLA

What to do? Can this cobbled-together bunch of parts make my engine run correctly? Should I swap one or more, or simply run what I've got?

The rebuild paperwork I have says 272 deg. cam, which may be a Web 86b or 86c? That's a pretty hot cam for a 2056, and with D-jet I can't expect the best performance out of it. Man, what a mismatched mess this engine is. Surprising that it runs at all...
Phoenix914
Finally made some noticeable progress last night. I took everything off the top of the engine except the tin between the cylinders and fan housing. The dirt and grime on this engine is astounding. A large quantity of degreaser will be sacrificed before this project is through.

I will try to get the heads and fan housing off by this weekend so the intake studs can get fixed.

Here is where I left off.

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I believe this is the backup light switch? One wire was pulled out of the boot and broken off. The other broke when I moved the harness. I'm thinking the backup lights were not working.

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BeatNavy
Yup, that is the reverse light switch.
malcolm2
QUOTE(Phoenix914 @ Apr 15 2015, 10:07 AM) *

I think my confusion stems from the unusual mounting location of the valve. It's usually shown next to the MPS in diagrams. I will be sure to put it there when everything goes back together.


Decel is flatter and wider. That is the fuel pressure regulator. I have one on my L-Jet. Maybe it is a Decel for the D-jet. I know very little about that. But that is not my decel.

My regulator has a different inlet. It has a knotch to better secure the fuel line, since your photo does not have that knotch, I guess I learned something today.

This looks like my fuel regulator...
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This looks like my decel....
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Dave_Darling
Malcom, the L-jet decel valve (except for early 74) looks like yours--the one that was pictured above is the D-jet valve, and the same or similar type was also used on some early 74 1.8s.

I don't remember my old 1.8's fuel pressure regulator looking like the one you picture, either. See if you can read the part numbers on it and Google them--it may be one from a different car?

--DD
Phoenix914
Malcom, for whatever reason the decel valve does look different for D-jet and it looks a lot like the fuel pressure regulator. I had to study them to figure out they were different parts.

You can see them both in this picture. The decel valve is in the foreground, mounted in the incorrect location. The FPR is in it's correct location in the upper right corner. Notice the notched fittings like you described for holding the fuel hoses. The decel valve has smooth pipes.

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audio_file
That is most definitely a Fuel Pressure Regulator, not a decel valve...
Phoenix914
QUOTE(audio_file @ Apr 16 2015, 02:08 PM) *

That is most definitely a Fuel Pressure Regulator, not a decel valve...


They are crazy similar in appearance.

Decel valve

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Fuel pressure regulator

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smile.gif
audio_file
QUOTE(Phoenix914 @ Apr 16 2015, 11:50 AM) *

They are crazy similar in appearance.

smile.gif


Except for the adjustment bolt on the FPR... which I learned (the hard way) is there just to LOOK AT, not play with, unless you have an inline fuel pressure gague handy biggrin.gif headbang.gif
Dave_Darling
The adjustment for the Decel Valve is the nut around the hose fitting on the end of the valve. The adjustment for the FPR is the bolt on the opposite end from the end with the hose fitting on it.

I don't believe the 1.8 style decel valve nor the 1.8 L-jet FPR are adjustable.

--DD
Phoenix914
The engine has been out for a while and I've disassembled it down to taking the cylinders off. At this point, I don't think splitting the case is necessary. The pistons and cylinders look pretty good. I'll post some pictures of them when the cylinders are a little more cleaned up.

One thing that I need advice on right now is the flywheel. It looks pretty worn to me. Can somebody give me an opinion on how it looks, or give me some measuring guidance? There doesn't seem to be much meat left on the friction surface.
Phoenix914
I've also been spending more time in Harbor Freight lately. biggrin.gif

I have acquired a new 3-ton jack, 21 gallon compressor and accessories, an engine stand! and some other bits and pieces for the garage. I finally have some momentum on getting the car back on the road. Fall is approaching and that's a good time to drive with no AC in Florida.
Phoenix914
Ok folks, I know we all like pictures. Here are some for you to look at. Before I take these heads to a machine shop for evaluation, please give your opinions about their condition. One needs two intake studs replaced and the other has a horrid, broken cooling fin.

Cylinder I combustion chamber:
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Cylinder II combustion chamber:
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Head for I and II:

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Phoenix914
Cylinder III combustion chamber:

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Cylinder IV combustion chamber:

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Head III & IV:

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...and a closeup of that broken fin:

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The fin below the break is also slightly bent. I don't know what sort of whack caused this damage, but it happened before the car came into my hands.
Phoenix914
There is one more thing I'm trying to figure out - what camshaft is in this engine.

Here are a couple of pictures. The stamp isn't exactly legible, but can anyone recognize the configuration of the text and possibly tell me the brand? The rebuild paperwork says the engine has a 272 degree cam, but no other identifying information. The rebuild was done in 1988, if that helps.

Here is a closeup of the stamp:

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The lobes look pretty good to my novice eyes!

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And here is the dirty engine in a partial state of disassembly. It's actually a little more apart now than this picture shows.

Yes, those are scratches on the door and rocker cover of my car. And, No, I'm not happy about them.

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Phoenix914
Is that broken-finned head repairable?

I contacted Len Hoffman about it, but he only told me that he doesn't perform partial repairs on TIV heads. He didn't actually answer my question about whether it could be repaired. confused24.gif

I don't have $$$$ to spend on having these heads completely remanufactured right now, and am not even sure this engine is worth that kind of work at this point. If this one can be fixed or simply bolted back on and run (I don't see any cracks or other damage anywhere), then that's what I'll do.

So come on, let's hear some opinions so I can driving.gif !
rjames
QUOTE(Phoenix914 @ Sep 16 2015, 10:00 AM) *


One thing that I need advice on right now is the flywheel. It looks pretty worn to me. Can somebody give me an opinion on how it looks, or give me some measuring guidance? There doesn't seem to be much meat left on the friction surface.


That flywheel looks pretty worn. The pic makes me say look for one with more meat on it, but pictures can be deceiving. I still haven't ever seen the measurements for a 914-4 flywheel. The only official measurements I have ever seen posted on this site were for the 914-6 flywheel.
(one of the many threads for reference http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...amp;hl=flywheel )

I can tell you that the 'C' measurement on the new 914-4 flywheel I bought from Pelican a few years ago was 9mm. Below is a pic of a 914-6 flywheel for referencing where the 'C' measurement is.

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Phoenix914
QUOTE(rjames @ Sep 17 2015, 01:33 PM) *


That flywheel looks pretty worn. The pic makes me say look for one with more meat on it, but pictures can be deceiving.



That's what I was afraid of. Thanks for the picture and thread link, rjames. It looks like I'll be shopping for a new flywheel and clutch kit.

Dave_Darling
I think I see at least one spark-plug hole crack. There are a couple of others that might be cracks (they're not in the common location though) or may be an illusion or something in the casting that isn't important.

Heads can be run with a broken fin like that. It's not exactly optimal, but it shouldn't be a super big problem.

If any welding is done on the head, chances are at least decent that the valve guides and seats will move some. Might be enough to affect the contact between the valves and the seats. Which means at a minimum those should be checked, and a valve job might need to be done.

I figure you have three choices with these heads:
1- Run them as-is.
2- Fix them properly, spend the $$$$.
3- Put them into the "future cores" box and find some different heads to run.

--DD
Phoenix914
Dave, I'll take a closer look at the spark plug holes. The glare in the garage when I took these pictures makes them look washed out and sort of hard to see. I still need to have intake studs repaired in the other head, so they will see a machine shop to be checked out. I just didn't know if the broken one was worth any trouble or is scrap.

Thanks for chiming in!
Phoenix914
After a closer look last night, I saw two cracks in combustion chamber II. This head's spark plug holes are pretty rough looking, anyway.

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TargaToy
Sorry to go off topic but motorcycles in garage shots always catch my eye. What's lurking on the other side of your car?
Phoenix914
That would be the other early '70s project. It's a '72 Honda CB350F. I've had it for years, bought and installed a lot of used and NOS parts on it, got it painted, but never started it.

There's really not much left to do, just rebuild & rejet the carbs (new exhaust system installed), run new fuel lines, and get the brake parts rebuilt. After the 914 is running again, I'll turn my attention to the bike.

Now the real question is, what part of DelMarVa are you from? I'm a Delaware native and spent most of my life between the Chesapeake and the Atlantic.
TargaToy
QUOTE(Phoenix914 @ Sep 19 2015, 08:57 PM) *

That would be the other early '70s project. It's a '72 Honda CB350F. I've had it for years, bought and installed a lot of used and NOS parts on it, got it painted, but never started it.

There's really not much left to do, just rebuild & rejet the carbs (new exhaust system installed), run new fuel lines, and get the brake parts rebuilt. After the 914 is running again, I'll turn my attention to the bike.

Now the real question is, what part of DelMarVa are you from? I'm a Delaware native and spent most of my life between the Chesapeake and the Atlantic.


Ahhhh. An early 70's CB. Perfect platform for a nice cafe. Love those bikes. It's funny how many 914 guys love motorcycles too. 2 wheeled projects often show up in the 914 pics.

I'm just a little bit south of Salisbury although I grew up in Pocomoke. Would have been 4 generation there but I ended that streak, unfortunately.
Phoenix914
Here's a question: does this look like an aftermarket cam gear, or is it stock? I expected to see bolts holding the gear on, but these look like rivetsClick to view attachment
Dave_Darling
The original ones used rivets. Don't know if that is stock or not, though. Just about all of them now use bolts, but you have to double- and triple-check for interference between the bolt heads and the oil pump, and maybe even parts of the case.

--DD
Phoenix914
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 4 2016, 01:52 AM) *

The original ones used rivets. Don't know if that is stock or not, though. Just about all of them now use bolts, but you have to double- and triple-check for interference between the bolt heads and the oil pump, and maybe even parts of the case.

--DD



This engine is supposed to have a "272 deg cam," according to the rebuild receipt from 1988, and I'm trying to ID it.

Is it possible they riveted the cam gear back onto a new camshaft?

I've decided to have the cylinders honed and replace the rings & rod bearings. There's only about 40k miles on this rebuild, so if the rod bearings look decent, then I won't go any further right now. (going to assume the mains would be decent, too) I discovered a local machine shop yesterday that looks like they have a clean facility and modern equipment, so I plan to talk to them this week about doing some work for me on this engine.
Phoenix914
Can anyone offer more advice for identifying the camshaft without removing it? Those rivets make me think it's stock. If it is, then maybe I won't even bother with new rings and rod bearings - just put it back together and start saving for a proper rebuild with new heads figured in.

I want to driving.gif this thing instead of fool with the engine forever.
Phoenix914
I think this camshaft mystery has been solved. Yesterday, I talked to a camshaft specialist who told me the stock 914 cams can be reground to have up to ~280 degree duration. Since mine is listed as 272 degree, it makes sense that this is a reground stock part. That's the original gear still riveted to an original camshaft.

Now I don't feel so much like I have to pull that thing out of there...

If the rod bearings look good when I take them off (hopefully by the weekend), then I don't see any reason for me to split the case at this point.

So the plan is:

-finish cleaning all the dirt and grime from the engine
-hone cylinders
-new rod bearings & recondition/rebush rods
-new rings
-have these ugly heads checked and fixed up or find some rebuildable cores
-find a used flywheel that can be resurfaced because mine is toast
-new clutch
-put it all back together with new seals and ignition parts (plugs, wires, points)
-fix the brown ugliness on the battery tray and hell hole (not too bad, just ugly)
-new bearings and bushings in the rear control arms (which I have)

I have all the parts for this operation except for piston rings & rod bearings

I stopped by a machine shop yesterday. They took a few minutes to chat with me about what I'm looking for and said to just bring in what I've got and they will give me a quote. I'm looking for them to check & measure the cylinders/pistons/rods to make sure they are still ok and to size the rings & bearings, hone cylinders, recondition rods, check out the heads, and maybe take care of the control arms.

Anything else?
Phoenix914
It's only been what, a year and half since I last posted on this thread? I finally got the cylinders honed and now need new rings.

My guess is that these pistons and cylinders are NPR due to their age (30 years) and size (96 mm). Can anyone verify by looking at them?

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Considering these are NPR P&C, which rings should I go with? Hastings? Deves? Other?
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