Anybody heard of"PERFECTPOWER EFI"
Is it any good?
I was considering going with SDS but then I found this system
and I think it looks kind of intersting and the best thing about it for me would
be that the Canadian distributor for it is only 5 miles from my house and
they have a dyno.
I would realy like the KitCarlson but I am running out of time
if I want the car back on the road this spring.
I have to make a decision very soon.
What do you EFI guys think of this system?

I'm pretty sure Ben M. (airsix) is running that system on his turbocharged 1.7

almost all of the available EFIs are similar that are within the same basic price range...buying from a local rep. might be advantagous when it comes to tuning.....

I think they would have done better in the US if the original importer was not such an idiot (a group buy was set up a few years ago directly from the manufacture and the new US importer/distributor totally screwed things up.....this got out among potential buyers and we looked and bought other EFI products instead)

I have the SMT6 piggyback for my 944 turbo. I haven't installed it yet so I really have no feedback to give. As much as I like the guys at SDS their system is really archaic for the price that you pay. It's priced around $2200 canadian when all said and done and for that kind of money you could get a Haltech, Autronic, etc. that data logs and has many more features. Just my $0.02

P.S. Don't get me wrong...I really do like the guys at SDS as they are in Calgary (where I am at) and many club racers use their product. In my opinion it's used more for the technical support these guys give than the actual capabilities of their product.

Ray: Look into the Haltech E6K or E6X. I'm sure it would do everything you need (and more) and will cost around $1300 with all the parts (wiring harness, etc.)

Yes indeed, I am running EFI/ignition from Perfect Power. The fact that you are close to a rep with a shop is awesome! That will be a very important benefit. My local rep was... in South Africa. Having someone local would have been killer. Anyway, they are good honest people (Klaus and his kids run things. Klaus is a German inmigrant) They really bent over backwards to help me out and fix the issues with the moron US distributor (he's not a distributor any more). I'm running the MIC3 which is an old design and the grand-daddy of the system you're looking at. I'm very happy with my ECU. It does everything I need and more. The software and physical construction are not as refined as say a MOTRONIC, but at pennies on the dollar it works awesome. I got laptop-tunable digital injection and ignition running and on the road for a total cost of about $500. It's hard to complain about that. Digital EFI/ignition for less money than carbs. I'll still be laughing about that one when I'm on my death bed.

-Ben M.

The local guy here has a brand new in the box (2003 model) PRS 4 that
he will sell me for $700. Which includes the wiring harnesses.
I thought that sounded pretty reasonable.
I figure I could round up the sensors and pigtails for another couple hundred.

QUOTE (Ray Warren @ Feb 7 2005, 06:09 PM)

The local guy here has a brand new in the box (2003 model) PRS 4 that he will sell me for $700. Which includes the wiring harnesses. I thought that sounded pretty reasonable. I figure I could round up the sensors and pigtails for another couple hundred.

I thought it came with the sensors. Should have a TPS, air-temp sensor & coolant temp sensor. MAP sensor is built in. The TPS they use is just a potentiometer (at least it used to be). You should only have to provide the injectors, fuel pump, relays, and ignition parts.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (airsix @ Feb 7 2005, 09:13 PM)

QUOTE (Ray Warren @ Feb 7 2005, 06:09 PM) The local guy here has a brand new in the box (2003 model) PRS 4 that he will sell me for $700. Which includes the wiring harnesses. I thought that sounded pretty reasonable. I figure I could round up the sensors and pigtails for another couple hundred. I thought it came with the sensors. Should have a TPS, air-temp sensor & coolant temp sensor. MAP sensor is built in. The TPS they use is just a potentiometer (at least it used to be). You should only have to provide the injectors, fuel pump, relays, and ignition parts. -Ben M.

AHH
Thats good to know. Iwill look into that a little further.
How do you like the system Ben?

I have a PRS-4 (not yet installed) It comes with the Brain, wiring harness. (does not come with any sensors) The Serial cable and developer software package were extra. Let me know if you want a copy of the manuals on CD.
It was the most for the $$$ at the time I bought it.

I looked at this recently, and it looks like they raised the price significantly over what Ben paid, but even so $700 with harness but no sensors is still not a bad price. The SDS system is about $1200 for pretty much the same thing (includes sensors and a coil pack worth maybe $150 all told). The KitCarlson is $1400. I've seen the Autronic priced at about $1200, but I don't know what it comes with. Dunno what a Haltech runs. Pretty sure the Electromotive TEC3 is over $2K.

We sell the Haltech E6X for $1284 USD

there are lots of great options for engine management nowadays

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Feb 7 2005, 06:52 PM)

I looked at this recently, and it looks like they raised the price significantly over what Ben paid, but even so $700 with harness but no sensors is still not a bad price. The SDS system is about $1200 for pretty much the same thing

The SDS is a good system but I wouldn't call it "the same thing". With the Perfect Power ECU you get data-logging as well as live system feedback on the laptop. You don't get that on the SDS and I'll tell you straight up that I couldn't live without it. There is HUGE benefit to being able to tune on the engine all the while having a screen in front of you that shows all of the following in real time:

• Throttle possition
  
• RPM
  
• Manifold Pressure
  
• Air temp
  
• Engine temp
  
• Ignition advance angle
  
• Injector duty cycle/pulse width
  
• Acceleration enrichment value (at current temps/rpm/load)
  
• Other stuff I can't think of at the moment
  

Throw in an LM-1 wideband O2 controller w/ aux. data cable and you're in fat city.
I'm surprised the Perfect Power ECU doesn't come with the sensors. Did they switch to standard GM sensors or something? That might explain the sensors not being included and would actually be a good thing IMHO.

-Ben M.

Ok, about the sensors... I just went and looked. The new PRS is SWEET! You can user-configure the sensor signal interpretation. Basically that means you can use whatever sensors you want. Cool. Want to use a head-temp sensor instead of a coolant temp sensor? Just program in the signal range and go. Neat stuff.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (airsix @ Feb 7 2005, 10:23 PM)

Ok, about the sensors... I just went and looked. The new PRS is SWEET! You can user-configure the sensor signal interpretation. Basically that means you can use whatever sensors you want. Cool. Want to use a head-temp sensor instead of a coolant temp sensor? Just program in the signal range and go. Neat stuff. -Ben M.

big deal...you can do that already with the Megasquirt

in fact I was using the stock cylinder head temp sensor with no tweaking of the signal whatsoever

having the datalogging feature is pretty darn cool, I wish I knew how to use it better my 1st time around...oh well, the next install will be much easier for me......

as for Perfect Power, I couldn't find any US based websites for it.....someone must have really screwed things up for them...

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 7 2005, 10:21 PM)

big deal...you can do that already with the Megasquirt

Yes, but you can't do it through the tuning interface can you? I thought you had to actually hack the firmware and reflash the chip.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 7 2005, 10:21 PM)

as for Perfect Power, I couldn't find any US based websites for it.....someone must have really screwed things up for them...

US distributor
A US dealer
Another US dealer
Yet another
And another
One more
And there are half-dozen more that don't have websites.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (airsix @ Feb 7 2005, 11:44 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 7 2005, 10:21 PM) big deal...you can do that already with the Megasquirt Yes, but you can't do it through the tuning interface can you? I thought you had to actually hack the firmware and reflash the chip. -Ben M.

Yes, you can do it through the tuning interface. The only time you have to "reflash" is when you're changing the program itself, not the data. Even then, it's something that can be done by just downloading stuff from a PC or laptop, as there's a bootloader. The only time you have to completely reprogram the thing is if you're changing the bootloader, which is a very rare event, or you're working with a completely blank processor. Doing THAT requires some special hardware, which can be assembled pretty cheaply (under $20), and special software (which is available free).

MS really is the ultimate in flexibility, and it has excellent support. However, the current hardware is still a tad flaky (read any of Mueller's recent problems with getting a clean tach signal) in some situations, and you really do have to do a lot yourself to get there. There's a new rev of the board coming out sometime in the spring, which should prove to be even more flexible and much less flaky (BIG improvements to the tach input circuit and heatsinking of parts that often run hot). It will have everything on board required to run fuel and ignition w/o hacking up the hardware or sacrificing some other feature for ignition (like fast idle control). The only remaining issue with the new board is that it will remain somewhat heat sensitive. The processor they're currently using is only good up to about 70dC, so hot engine bays can cause problems. It appears the 914 trunk gets this hot on a hot day, although the front of the engine bay doesn't get this hot. To solve THAT problem, they're introducing a plug-in processor replacement board which is MUCH faster and good up to 125dC. Plans for that are to have advanced things like knock sensing, advanced ignition systems, and the ability to do full sequential injection. Basically they'll bring it out of the 80s and into the 90s.

Agreed on the data-logging bit, which is the main SDS weak point. However, they seem to recognize this, and they are providing SOME data-logging capability in the lastest units, but still using their hand-held programmer, which IMHO, is really holding them back. They used to be somewhat cheaper than other units out there, and that price differential seems to have vanished. Laptops are now cheap and readily available, which was not true when their unit first came out.

After all the earlier interest, I find it notable that no one has seen fit to comment on my mention of the Kit Carlson system and its price, which finally (quietly) appeared on Jake's new store. It's disappointingly expensive, doesn't seem to offer anything the others don't have, and it doesn't appear to be as flexible as some of the other units. There's still hardly any information available on it, so it's hard to say how it really compares.

QUOTE (airsix @ Feb 7 2005, 11:55 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 7 2005, 10:21 PM) as for Perfect Power, I couldn't find any US based websites for it.....someone must have really screwed things up for them... US distributor A US dealer Another US dealer Yet another And another One more And there are half-dozen more that don't have websites. -Ben M.

Frankly, none of those dealers really have websites, either. They have nearly zero actual information on the units. Only one appeared to have prices, and some of the data looked highly suspicious. For example, they claim "Lambda closed loop control...comparable to an LM-1", which I was take to mean it has a built-in wideband controller. This doesn't appear to be so, however, at least according to my reading of Perfect Power's own website (which is pretty unclear on a lot of things). If it IS true, it's big news, as I don't believe any other aftermarket ECU short of a very high end Motec has on-board wideband control.

I think Perfect's worst problem is it's being marketed very badly.

The PRS system can run closed loop, they claim it can self tune (we'll have to see about that) Don't know about the wideband controller part, I don't think it's built in.
I bought an LM-1 to help with the tuning when I get this thing togeher.

QUOTE (Dominic @ Feb 8 2005, 05:18 AM)

The PRS system can run closed loop, they claim it can self tune (we'll have to see about that) Don't know about the wideband controller part, I don't think it's built in. I bought an LM-1 to help with the tuning when I get this thing togeher.

The self-tuning part isn't all that hard, and lots of other units do it (even Megasquirt), but it's usually done using a narrowband O2 sensor, and is thus not at all useful for engines that require a mixture that's well off 14.7:1, like the 914 engine, or any racing engine. The LM-1, and any other wideband unit, allows you to select an AFR target that's well off 14.7:1 and try and hit that, using the same self-tuning software. Claiming a narrowband unit is in any way comparable to an LM-1 shows someone is either loose with the truth, or they simply don't understand the difference. Neither is a desirable quality in a vendor.

The LM-1 is my Fairy Godmother. After I was reduced to my last nerv and ready to set the car on fire, cackling wildly as it burned in front of me I got the LM-1 and in minutes my 914 went from "runs like crap except at WOT" to "quite nearly perfect" in about 20 minutes. Money well spent.*

-Ben M.


*I'm referring to tuning an ECU from scratch. I'm not saying to get an LM-1 if you have stock injection. Save your money.

Does anyone know if the Haltech requires a crank sensor to control spark? or can it use a signal from the dizzy?

What about Perfect Power?

Tommy,

I didnt forget your pm, just havent repled yet. The haltechs need a crank sensor, even with the dist. Though you may be able to get a dual synch dist from accel, Not sure if they make one for a 914, the do make a 911 dist though.

after dinner Ill shoot you a pm

I'm sure you can use the Haltech with a dizzy sensor. Look at how Mueller put optical sensors in a Mallory dizzy to emulate the D-jet trigger points. You can do anything if you want to. Perfect power will run off just about any triggering setup you want to try. I ran mine off of mechanical points one day just to see if I could. I also ran it off a magnetic pickup in the dizzy (which I took out of a Mitsubishi at the junk yard). Then I ran it for about a year using a Crane optical sensor and shutter-wheel. Currently I'm using a hall sensor on the crank (which has been the best method so far).That's one of the cool things about these digital ECU's - you can use your imagination and come up with lots of different ways to accomplish the task.

-Ben M.

mah bad, yea you can use a distributor for the signal to the ecu, we did an SC with a similar set up. Its just a matter of telling the software how many pulses it will see per engine cycle.

Just to throw another one out there that I was looking at, what about the Micro Tech??? anyone using this unit? www.microtechefi.com

QUOTE (KickinRocks77 @ Mar 27 2005, 01:01 PM)

Just to throw another one out there that I was looking at, what about the Micro Tech??? anyone using this unit? www.microtechefi.com

No personal experience, but judging from their website, the LT4 roughly comparable with the baseline Megasquirt. Their site is way too light on information, which always bothers me. It appears to have an onboard MAP sensor. I can't tell from the bad photos if that big connector on the side is waterproof or not.

QUOTE (KickinRocks77 @ Mar 27 2005, 02:01 PM)

Just to throw another one out there that I was looking at, what about the Micro Tech??? anyone using this unit? www.microtechefi.com

rumor I heard was that Motec was "the" fuel injection company in Australia, then a few co-workers left to start Haltech, then slowly other techs left Motec or Haltech and started these other Australian fuel injection companies...I could be totally off base here so don't beleive everything you read, LOL

For the amount of programmable fuel injection companies based in Australia, it makes you wonder how good the intelectual property agreements are or how their NDA's hold up in court